COVID-19: How Not To Kill an Economy

[kahuna1]

Left wing ?

This more illuminating... MSNBC ? Barb the interviewer was with NBC for decades. Now on "The View" the ultra right wing show on ABC in the USA. FOX on steroids ... is the view. Megan McCain and her diet issues some token African American wearing a mop .... and so on ... Whoppi something, cushion ?

I see your views are totally rational and well thought out.



Possibly you listened to that preacher too many times ? Limit is 3 .... in a lifetime or you end up with severe dementia.

 

[matty77]

Left wing ?

This more illuminating... MSNBC ? Barb the interviewer was with NBC for decades. Now on "The View" the ultra right wing show on ABC in the USA. FOX on steroids ... is the view. Megan McCain and her diet issues some token African American wearing a mop .... and so on ... Whoppi something, cushion ?

I see your views are totally rational and well thought out.



Possibly you listened to that preacher too many times ? Limit is 3 .... in a lifetime or you end up with severe dementia.

lol cool story bro, sorry I just need to take my tin foil hat off for a second...

thanks for cheering me up today.

 

[noirua]

 

[Smurf1976]

Use technology to enable contact tracing in the event you subsequently become infected for some reason

FWIW there are some applications which already make use of Bluetooth for tracking.

Eg it has been used to collect road traffic data for quite some years now in Australian cities. They're not interested in who you are, just that xzy123 went from A to B via these streets at this time which then enables working out things like, for example, what the ultimate destination of all cars crossing a particular bridge or using a particular road is. That data then facilitates reasonable assumptions being made as to how many would use some other hypothetical alternative road if it were built. Etc.

Only issue I can see is that in a Western democracy it would be extremely difficult to bring in any rule which says someone must carry a phone or other device at all times or even that it's turned on. That most people do so voluntarily much of the time is one thing but insisting on it would be problematic most definitely and especially so in situations where the device would be highly at risk of damage hence why it's not being carried in the first place. Etc.

 

[basilio]

FWIW there are some applications which already make use of Bluetooth for tracking.

Eg it has been used to collect road traffic data for quite some years now in Australian cities. They're not interested in who you are, just that xzy123 went from A to B via these streets at this time which then enables working out things like, for example, what the ultimate destination of all cars crossing a particular bridge or using a particular road is. That data then facilitates reasonable assumptions being made as to how many would use some other hypothetical alternative road if it were built. Etc.

Only issue I can see is that in a Western democracy it would be extremely difficult to bring in any rule which says someone must carry a phone or other device at all times or even that it's turned on. That most people do so voluntarily much of the time is one thing but insisting on it would be problematic most definitely and especially so in situations where the device would be highly at risk of damage hence why it's not being carried in the first place. Etc.

Indeed that would be hard to to achieve voluntarily.

Probably far better to simply imbed a tracking device into everyone. That would ensure we knew where everyone was at any one time and we could track their historical movements and see how they intersected with people who had the virus and could have passed it on. Perhaps start with people at high risk and then integrate into the rest of the community ?

I understand that Peter Dutton and the Department of Homeland Security are leading a task force with multi department members to present this option as a health measure to secure the long term safety and security of the population. I feel safer already just thinking about it....

 

[rederob]

Indeed that would be hard to to achieve voluntarily.

Probably far better to simply imbed a tracking device into everyone. That would ensure we knew where everyone was at any one time and we could track their historical movements and see how they intersected with people who had the virus and could have passed it on. Perhaps start with people at high risk and then integrate into the rest of the community ?

I understand that Peter Dutton and the Department of Homeland Security are leading a task force with multi department members to present this option as a health measure to secure the long term safety and security of the population. I feel safer already just thinking about it....

In China to travel you need your mobile - it's not an option.
In Oz, I personally do not know anyone in the workforce who does not have a mobile phone on them most of the time, including tradies.
The app being developed is a proximity app, rather than a pure location app, so it becomes possible to contact everyone you were near to. A tracking program does not have this accuracy nor functionality.
As for Mr Dutton, he's missed the boat!

 

[matty77]

lol cool story bro, sorry I just need to take my tin foil hat off for a second...

thanks for cheering me up today.

sorry I'm probably being a bit rude... my bad.

Honestly though you are blind if you cant admit that Fox News leans to the right and CNN leans to the left, if you cant see that then its a real concern and I just dont understand how people that are on the Left just scream Orange Man Bad or Russia and think that is some sort of argument.

Trump will win 2020 by a landslide despite the media bias against him, I mean you cant seriously say you would rather Biden in office? That guys doesnt even know where he is half the time and he is the Democrats number one candidate? Just makes me chuckle inside..

Here is a preview of Biden being president!

 

[rederob]

sorry I'm probably being a bit rude... my bad.

Honestly though you are blind if you cant admit that Fox News leans to the right and CNN leans to the left, if you cant see that then its a real concern and I just dont understand how people that are on the Left just scream Orange Man Bad or Russia and think that is some sort of argument.

Trump will win 2020 by a landslide despite the media bias against him, I mean you cant seriously say you would rather Biden in office? That guys doesnt even know where he is half the time and he is the Democrats number one candidate? Just makes me chuckle inside..

Here is a preview of Biden being president!

None of that is relevant to this thread.
Unless you want to showcase how Trump's inertia has led the USA into a predicament which is likely to kill their economy.

 

[kahuna1]

Unless you want to showcase how Trump's inertia has led the USA into a predicament which is likely to kill their economy.

Well I would not agree.
They just did a bailout, large companies only .... 454 billion to be leveraged to 4.54 TRILLION .... or 25% of the GDP !!

They do NOT care about non whites or in fact anyone outside the top 10%.

I suspect with funds, the companies will endure. Small business .... thrown crumbs and it employs 60% of the people. Less than 5% of that number .... yes 5% ..

At Mara Lago it doesn't matter.

The numbers they are reporting, as soon as it all had to be approved became ... fiction.

Sorry not conspiracy just, what they are.

This ... is the impact on the richest nation on the planet supposedly .... it is ... for the top 10%

Whilst in any society even ours, some do it tough. NOT the bloody lower 70% ... watch this closely all across America millions NOW reliant upon food banks to even EAT.




the elite .... dont care.
It took 16 months in the GFC for them to bail out the banks. Over 33 million Americans lost their HOME.
This time it took 16 days to bail out the crooks who paid NO tax had their tax halved and well watch the video again.

Nothing ... will change. Any Democratic contender even thinking about a cheaper healthcare universal system had to squashed. First Warren then Sanders.

As for taxing the rich, in the USA ... Bloomberg ran for one sole purpose and that was to get rid of Wealth tax plans for Warren and when she fell ... Sanders.

Change will occur but likely not till 2024.
Biden proposes NO change. So another 4 years likely of Trump as Biden is pathetic.

Either way, Biden or Trump .... both dance to the tune of corporate donations, healthcare industry, military industrial complex .... and the rest ... Prison industry ...

Not sure the rest of the world however will tolerate USA plans for this slush fund. One aimed at the very top.

USA has been a joke internationally under Trump, now, a disgrace and a total buffoon.

The lower 70% did not have $400- for an emergency .... prior to CV19 and some states big ones only closed down on 4th April.

Trump, seriously did not learn ... does not care ... and will send them back to work 1st May with results that are science not political dogma.

That the Latino and African Americans are around 80% of the deaths due to NON existent healthcare, well, again, they build the wall ... and as for the African Americans they are NOT white so dont exist in the worlds of Buffett and Gates and the rest.

 

[rederob]

Back on topic, Rio Tinto is setting the example that our elected officials should have implemented weeks ago:

Rio Tinto is now increasing screening measures by introducing a trial of COVID-19 rapid screening at Perth Airport and at the company’s nearby Operations Centre. This will form part of an enhanced five-layer screening process designed to keep the community and the company’s workforce safe. This includes:

• A health questionnaire - employees will be asked a series of questions a day prior to traveling to screen for potential exposures to COVID-19, consistent with government restrictions on intra-state travel.
• A face-to-face assessment with a nurse at Perth Airport.
• Thermal screening – the employee’s temperature is taken via electronic thermometer.
• Rapid screening - enables the quick identification of people who may be at increased risk of having a viral illness prior to coming to site.
  • This requires a small blood sample taken via a finger pinprick to detect viral related antibodies in the individual’s blood.
  • This screening process is not a test for COVID-19. The detection of any viral-related antibodies requires the individual to self-isolate as a precaution and seek prompt testing at an approved clinic.
• Those cleared will receive an access band allowing them to board their flight.

Trained medical staff will perform the COVID-19 screening process with oversight by Rio Tinto’s occupational physician. There will also be oversight of the comprehensive research into the COVID-19 screening outcomes. The new measures reflect Rio Tinto’s health and safety obligations under applicable Australian legislation.
​

Given the huge sums already spent on airport screening to discover a dangerous manicure kit, I think most people would be happy to pay a bit more to be sure that they would not be setting next to someone whose breath could kill them. More importantly, this would provide an invaluable level of additional screening for a group who was largely responsible for spreading the virus - ie, interstate and international travellers.

 

[matty77]

Also if you want a free health check up just go to the airport and go through security for free and you will find out all you need to know...

Didnt someone from Rio just get Corona and infect a site? I swear I read that somewhere but could be wrong..

 

[Country Lad]

Didnt someone from Rio just get Corona and infect a site? I swear I read that somewhere but could be wrong..

It was apparently a false positive

 

[rederob]

It was apparently a false positive

I could not find an update.
RIO's POCT tests show exposure, and if positive for antibodies an acute diagnostic test needs to be carried out.
So the process gets simpler from there as the worker won't fly until the all clear is given. Seems pretty straight forward.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

What are the options for a pandemic exit strategy?

The risk of easing restrictions early is still large but it could be managed progressively, while the risk of staying out longer will be crippling for the economy.

by Michael Rice, co-authored with Alun Stevens and Michael Berg, Senior Consultants at actuarial firm, Rice Warner

 

[rederob]

What are the options for a pandemic exit strategy?

The risk of easing restrictions early is still large but it could be managed progressively, while the risk of staying out longer will be crippling for the economy.

by Michael Rice, co-authored with Alun Stevens and Michael Berg, Senior Consultants at actuarial firm, Rice Warner

Maybe we need actuaries to guide Scomo instead of his panel of experts that seem to have no idea how to get us all back to work quickly, except for coming up with a few the blindingly obvious factors.
Hawke had the right idea a long time ago when he got his new government heading in the right direction from the get go by holding the National Economic Summit, and then continuing to involve key players in reforming the nation.
Scomo has neither the policy nous nor social acumen to effectively involve others in decision making.

 

[matty77]

40% of people need to be on this tracker apparently before they will consider going back to normal.

what a load of crap.

 

[rederob]

40% of people need to be on this tracker apparently before they will consider going back to normal.

what a load of crap.

It seems to be a crazy made up figure that it is not based on any rationale.
The tracking app is only of value to those who will be near to people they would not ordinarily know, and be close to them for whatever amount of time the app is configured to.
That would be of benefit to people using public transport right now.
It would be especially handy if bars, clubs and restaurants were to open for business.
The data we do have confirms that most known positive cases can be tracked back to international travellers and their known close contacts.
If we are going to be smart about why an app would be useful, how about explaining the circumstances so that people who are most likely not to know who they have been close to for a set amount of time realise it's for their specific benefit, rather than come up with a dodgy figure.

 

[matty77]

I just dont trust the government when they say it wont be used for other things, the AUS government has a long list of things they like to do underhandedly to chip away at our freedoms, this is just another one of those things, for example no cash transactions over $10k.. we all know this is just part of them getting rid of cash altogether so they can track 100% of what we spend..

I understand high risk people there is a case for them to use it, but just 40% of the population because why? makes zero sense.

 

[rederob]

I just dont trust the government when they say it wont be used for other things, the AUS government has a long list of things they like to do underhandedly to chip away at our freedoms, this is just another one of those things, for example no cash transactions over $10k.. we all know this is just part of them getting rid of cash altogether so they can track 100% of what we spend..

I understand high risk people there is a case for them to use it, but just 40% of the population because why? makes zero sense.

The tracking app could be written so as to store the information on our phones, rather than send it to the cloud.
Then, if we were ever tested and founded positive, it could be our choice to either recount our contacts, or download the app.

 

[rederob]

Having recently flown interstate I revisited this thread started in April - 8 months ago - to find little has changed.

• Airports did not require us to fill in Covid questionnaires; no temperature screening or POCT/PCR testing took place, masks were provided but not mandatory (fewer than half those on our flights actually wore masks), and most airport social distancing floor markers were impractical so not adhered to, while no seating was "distanced". On the plus side, there was plenty sanitiser available, and cafe and concession workers were assiduously cleaning their areas, but public waiting areas were not being wiped down (a flight delay meant we observed no cleaning for almost 4 hours at Hobart). See post #70 above for what the private sector has in place since March!
• There is no mass disinfection of high traffic public areas anywhere in Australia that I am aware. It seems that the onus rests solely with the private sector.
• Quarantining/isolation arrangements vary by State/Territory, as do triggers and stages for lockdowns and for border closures. There is zero POCT testing that I am aware, and this could have been mandated for border crossings and international flight crew as a precursor to PCR tests if necessary.
• We have no means of identifying who may be safe via existing antibodies, nor presently for identifying those who get vaccinated; this latter point vital if you have followed Allan Joyce.
• The Covid Safe App has been a waste of time, and most places we visited instead insisted on the QR code or a paper record of our details. Our federal leaders have well and truly dropped the ball on technology, as some nations mandating QR codes have also integrated hotspot warnings, and personal experience with the virus (eg testing status and geotracking through hotspots).
• On the economic front no new initiatives were undertaken, and job creation has taken a back seat to financial support.
• Covid measures affecting seasonal agriculture workers have not been addressed.
• We do not have a "testing flying squad" that can be deployed at a moment's notice to anywhere in Australia to quickly get on top of spread. (China has had several outbreaks in cities of around 10 million, and been able to test a million people a day.)
• Some other good ideas from posters in this thread, eg relating to manufacturing and training, have gone begging.

Australia seems to have dodged the covid bullet by and large through good luck, and via some State Premiers taking a really hard line on borders and internal covid-safe measures. Those in Victoria who did it tough for many months as a result of maladministration of overseas travellers in quarantine can now breathe a lot easier. We in other States never want to have those circumstances visited upon us. However, as my recent flight showed, we remain complacent and still have very few arrangements in place to facilitate consistently safe travel, which should be unrestricted across all of Australia except for specific locations where hotspots arise.

It is curious that many SE Asian nations have done comparatively well containing covid. The most successful have characteristics such as

• Competent and strategic leadership
• Acceptance of science and ability to effect testing, tracing and technology
• Popular respect for leadership and trust of measures necessary; and
• Commitment to society and social bonds rather than selfish individualism.

Looking at the above, it's not hard to see a number of Premiers scoring highly from their citizens.