Coronavirus vaccine news

[sptrawler]

Why not provide examples?
A fact does not change.
A fact also lives in a context.
I don't know of any Australian news channels that are fact checkers. The closest I know of is the ABC's Media Watch which is about media analysis rather

Oh well here is the thoughts of two of the presenters of Media Watch, so maybe take it up with them I can't be bothered with your nonsense.
As I said, the ABC will depict the same issue completely differently to News Corp, you can waffle as much as you want, knock yourself out.
The really funny part is you think other people are obsessive, when you would be the most obsessive person, I've ever communicated with. There isn't anything you wont harp on endlessly about, until you have bored the other person into submission.?

Media Watch host calls for the ABC to burst out of its bubble to ensure its survival

The ABC’s future is dependent upon breaking out of its inner-city bubble and getting out into the suburbs, Media Watch host Paul Barry said last night.“We represent what we regard as common sense well-educated objective point of view and you know what? Maybe it’s not. Maybe you’ll agree with me...

mumbrella.com.au

From the article:
The ABC’s future is dependent upon breaking out of its inner-city bubble and getting out into the suburbs, Media Watch host Paul Barry said last night.
Barry made the comments on Wednesday night in the inner-Sydney suburb of Glebe while interviewing his Media Watch predecessor Jonathon Holmes about Holmes’ book on the future of the ABC, About Aunty.
During the interview, Holmes warned Nine’s acquisition of Fairfax may result in further pressure on the ABC from News Corp and its conservative commentators.

“One of the scariest realities of Australian media right now is this – there were three gorillas – News, Fairfax and the ABC. We don’t really know what the consequence of nine taking over Fairfax will be down the track but if a consequence is that the major newspapers – The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Australian Financial Review are even further defunded than they are now.

“You will effectively be left with with two gorillas – a right-wing News Corporation and left-wing ABC. That is extremely dangerous for Australia and extremely dangerous to the ABC. It’s desperately important that we’re not left… News Corp is always going to portray the ABC as being left and of course [this] will be true in comparison with News whatever you do.

“I don’t know what the answer to that is but it worries the heck out of me.”

Holmes repeated the long-asked question of where the ABC can find a “right-wing Philip Adams” to counter what many critics of the national broadcaster see as its ‘left-wing’ bias, something he partly put down to the demographics of the organisation’s staff.

“I think the sort of person that most ABC people think about when they make their programs are the sort of people [who] think roughly the same as they do and I think they think that’s somebody a little bit left of centre.

“They are talking to people like me and they are not talking to people who think differently to me.”

Faced with murmurs of dissent from the audience, many of whom were Friends of the ABC, Barry came to Holmes’ defence, saying: “The ABC is predominantly staffed with people like us, some younger than me and him, luckily.

“People who are generally urban, inner-city, well-educated and we have a take on life and our take on life differs from 20% of the population of 30 or 40 or 50% of the population, whatever it is.

“Those people are not generally well represented. We don’t go when we do Q&A, we don’t go to Bankstown often to bring in the Lebanese audience or all of the working-class audience.

“When when we do most of these programs we don’t have working-class commentators, we don’t have many Muslim commentators, we don’t have many right-wing nutty Catholic commentators. There’s a whole bunch of people whose voices are not represented.”

 

[wayneL]

Oh well here is the thoughts of two of the presenters of Media Watch, so maybe take it up with them I can't be bothered with your nonsense.
As I said, the ABC will depict the same issue completely differently to News Corp, you can waffle as much as you want, knock yourself out.
The really funny part is you think other people are obsessive, when you would be the most obsessive person, I've ever communicated with. There isn't anything you wont harp on endlessly about, until you have bored the other person into submission.?

Media Watch host calls for the ABC to burst out of its bubble to ensure its survival

The ABC’s future is dependent upon breaking out of its inner-city bubble and getting out into the suburbs, Media Watch host Paul Barry said last night.“We represent what we regard as common sense well-educated objective point of view and you know what? Maybe it’s not. Maybe you’ll agree with me...

mumbrella.com.au

From the article:
The ABC’s future is dependent upon breaking out of its inner-city bubble and getting out into the suburbs, Media Watch host Paul Barry said last night.
Barry made the comments on Wednesday night in the inner-Sydney suburb of Glebe while interviewing his Media Watch predecessor Jonathon Holmes about Holmes’ book on the future of the ABC, About Aunty.
During the interview, Holmes warned Nine’s acquisition of Fairfax may result in further pressure on the ABC from News Corp and its conservative commentators.

“One of the scariest realities of Australian media right now is this – there were three gorillas – News, Fairfax and the ABC. We don’t really know what the consequence of nine taking over Fairfax will be down the track but if a consequence is that the major newspapers – The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Australian Financial Review are even further defunded than they are now.

“You will effectively be left with with two gorillas – a right-wing News Corporation and left-wing ABC. That is extremely dangerous for Australia and extremely dangerous to the ABC. It’s desperately important that we’re not left… News Corp is always going to portray the ABC as being left and of course [this] will be true in comparison with News whatever you do.

“I don’t know what the answer to that is but it worries the heck out of me.”

Holmes repeated the long-asked question of where the ABC can find a “right-wing Philip Adams” to counter what many critics of the national broadcaster see as its ‘left-wing’ bias, something he partly put down to the demographics of the organisation’s staff.

“I think the sort of person that most ABC people think about when they make their programs are the sort of people [who] think roughly the same as they do and I think they think that’s somebody a little bit left of centre.

“They are talking to people like me and they are not talking to people who think differently to me.”

Faced with murmurs of dissent from the audience, many of whom were Friends of the ABC, Barry came to Holmes’ defence, saying: “The ABC is predominantly staffed with people like us, some younger than me and him, luckily.

“People who are generally urban, inner-city, well-educated and we have a take on life and our take on life differs from 20% of the population of 30 or 40 or 50% of the population, whatever it is.

“Those people are not generally well represented. We don’t go when we do Q&A, we don’t go to Bankstown often to bring in the Lebanese audience or all of the working-class audience.

“When when we do most of these programs we don’t have working-class commentators, we don’t have many Muslim commentators, we don’t have many right-wing nutty Catholic commentators. There’s a whole bunch of people whose voices are not represented.”

Notice the only pejorative was reserved for Christians?

Not defending the Catholic church per se, but that ******** wouldn't dare say something like "nutty Islamist commentators"

Just an observation

 

[sptrawler]

Notice the only pejorative was reserved for Christians?

Not defending the Catholic church per se, but that ******** wouldn't dare say something like "nutty Islamist commentators"

Just an observation

Yes I agree, there would be hell to pay, the problem is they can't see how supercilious and arrogant they appear.
" urban, inner-city, well-educated and we have a take on life and our take on life differs from 20% of the population of 30 or 40 or 50% of the population, whatever it is."

Yet they present the "facts". FFS.
They present the "facts", they want to present and the omit the "facts", they don't want to present. As all the media outlets do.

 

[rederob]

Oh well here is the thoughts of two of the presenters of Media Watch, so maybe take it up with them I can't be bothered with your nonsense.
As I said, the ABC will depict the same issue completely differently to News Corp, you can waffle as much as you want, knock yourself out.
The really funny part is you think other people are obsessive, when you would be the most obsessive person, I've ever communicated with. There isn't anything you wont harp on endlessly about, until you have bored the other person into submission.?

Media Watch host calls for the ABC to burst out of its bubble to ensure its survival

The ABC’s future is dependent upon breaking out of its inner-city bubble and getting out into the suburbs, Media Watch host Paul Barry said last night.“We represent what we regard as common sense well-educated objective point of view and you know what? Maybe it’s not. Maybe you’ll agree with me...

mumbrella.com.au

From the article:
The ABC’s future is dependent upon breaking out of its inner-city bubble and getting out into the suburbs, Media Watch host Paul Barry said last night.
Barry made the comments on Wednesday night in the inner-Sydney suburb of Glebe while interviewing his Media Watch predecessor Jonathon Holmes about Holmes’ book on the future of the ABC, About Aunty.
During the interview, Holmes warned Nine’s acquisition of Fairfax may result in further pressure on the ABC from News Corp and its conservative commentators.

“One of the scariest realities of Australian media right now is this – there were three gorillas – News, Fairfax and the ABC. We don’t really know what the consequence of nine taking over Fairfax will be down the track but if a consequence is that the major newspapers – The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Australian Financial Review are even further defunded than they are now.

“You will effectively be left with with two gorillas – a right-wing News Corporation and left-wing ABC. That is extremely dangerous for Australia and extremely dangerous to the ABC. It’s desperately important that we’re not left… News Corp is always going to portray the ABC as being left and of course [this] will be true in comparison with News whatever you do.

“I don’t know what the answer to that is but it worries the heck out of me.”

Holmes repeated the long-asked question of where the ABC can find a “right-wing Philip Adams” to counter what many critics of the national broadcaster see as its ‘left-wing’ bias, something he partly put down to the demographics of the organisation’s staff.

“I think the sort of person that most ABC people think about when they make their programs are the sort of people [who] think roughly the same as they do and I think they think that’s somebody a little bit left of centre.

“They are talking to people like me and they are not talking to people who think differently to me.”

Faced with murmurs of dissent from the audience, many of whom were Friends of the ABC, Barry came to Holmes’ defence, saying: “The ABC is predominantly staffed with people like us, some younger than me and him, luckily.

“People who are generally urban, inner-city, well-educated and we have a take on life and our take on life differs from 20% of the population of 30 or 40 or 50% of the population, whatever it is.

“Those people are not generally well represented. We don’t go when we do Q&A, we don’t go to Bankstown often to bring in the Lebanese audience or all of the working-class audience.

“When when we do most of these programs we don’t have working-class commentators, we don’t have many Muslim commentators, we don’t have many right-wing nutty Catholic commentators. There’s a whole bunch of people whose voices are not represented.”

You have wasted a lot of time confusing opinions with facts.
Do you have anything factual in relation to fact checking programs, as I am not aware of any?

 

[sptrawler]

You have wasted a lot of time confusing opinions with facts.
Do you have anything factual in relation to fact checking programs, as I am not aware of any?

You were the one that brought up media watch, not me I was just proving to you that they agree with my take on the issue.
You obviously are the one wasting a lot of time bringing up waffle as usual.
Now no doubt you are going to be take us down another waffle walk, re opinions.
It is only the opinion of the presenter, as to which facts are presented, tested or checked, therefore any media presentation is actually the opinion they wish to present, be that media watch or Bolt or any other fact checking presentation.
They base there shows, on the presentation, questioning and checking of "facts", or so they say, I say none of them give all the "facts" they give the "facts" that support their argument or belief, no matter where the "facts" come from.

 

[sptrawler]

We are staring to see the media "facts" coming out as we speak.
This is the media's "facts", lets see what happens? Are these "facts" or just what the way this media wants to present as the "facts".
If indeed they are the facts, when will it ever be possible to return to normal?
What are they basing the "facts" on, apart from ANU experts, which in itself must mean it is absolutely accurate, because they always give the "facts".

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

No Cookies

www.couriermail.com.au

From the article:
The Prime Minister’s plan to reopen the country at a 70-80 per cent vaccination rate and treat the Delta variant “like the flu” has been slammed as dangerous and reckless by some of the nation’s top health and economic researchers.
According to modelling from the Australian National University, if Scott Morrison’s current coronavirus plan proceeds, tens of thousands Australians will likely die and hundreds of thousands will likely develop cases of long Covid.

“We found substantial morbidity and mortality is likely to occur if the Australian government sticks to the national plan,” ANU economics professor and study co-author Quentin Grafton said.

If Australia reopens with 70 per cent of Australians aged over 16 fully vaccinated, there could eventually be 6.9 million cases of Covid-19, 154,000 hospitalisations, and 29,000 fatalities, Professor Grafton said.

“We simply can’t afford to do that, both in terms of lives and long-term illness from Covid,” he said.
And even if the PM waits until 80 per cent of the adult population are vaccinated to open up, thousands of lives will still be destroyed, according to the modelling.

“Assuming 80 per cent vaccination coverage for only those over 16, as per the national plan, there could be approximately 25,000 fatalities and some 270,000 cases of long Covid,” Professor Grafton said.
“The consequences of prematurely and fully relaxing public health measures to suppress Covid-19, even after vaccinating 80 per cent of adults, would likely be irreversible, and unacceptable to many Australians,” study co-author and University of Western Australia senior research officer Zoë Hyde echoed.

“It’s simply too dangerous to treat Covid-19 like the flu,” Dr Hyde said.

 

[moXJO]

They base there shows, on the presentation, questioning and checking of "facts", or so they say, I say none of them give all the "facts" they give the "facts" that support their argument or belief, no matter where the "facts" come from.

This right here. I've seen so many twists and turns from supposed fact checkers it's laughable. I'm sure I posted a lengthy list before.

 

[rederob]

Oh well here is the thoughts of two of the presenters of Media Watch, so maybe take it up with them I can't be bothered with your nonsense.

I said Media Watch presented media analysis rather than facts, so I have no idea what you watch that is actually fact checking as you earlier stated.
You then offered two print media articles that give modelling outcomes against different vaccination rates.
What's your point?
Models use real world data (aka "facts") about covid to derive likely consequences.
It is proven that vaccinations reduce illness, hospitalisation and death rates.
It is proven that mitigation measures reduce spread and can lead to local level elimination of covid.
What facts are "subjective" as you earlier claimed?

 

[sptrawler]

The fact checkers I have watched, depend a lot on the reporters leaning, whether they see the facts as (half true or mostly true) or (half false or mostly false).
It is very subjective in the shows I have seen, it would also depend on who selects the subject matter, or if the subject matter is decided by independent parties.
A fact checking show on the ABC, will be completely different from a fact checking show on a News Corp programme, even if it is fact checking the same subject.
That is why I take most of it with a grain of salt.

AS I have already said when Andrew Bolt or the 7.30 report or indeed media watch Q & A present a show, they refer to "facts" to support the position they are taking constantly.
If you are so prescriptive a person, that you can't accept that when say Andrew Bolt discredits the facts presented by an ABC presenter, he is fact checking their content as presented.
Then obviously unless the words fact check are inserted into the programme name, you wont see it as a case of fact checking, there is probably a name for that disorder.
Obsessive and pedantic springs to mind. ?

The above article I posted, is so we can return at a later date and fact check, the experts subjective analysis of their interpretation of the data. As presented by the media to obviously cause concern, despair, fear and angst against the Government.
It will be interesting to review the article and compare the actual outcomes with the presentation of likely outcomes based on "facts", by said experts.

 

[rederob]

AS I have already said when Andrew Bolt or the 7.30 report or indeed media watch Q & A present a show, they refer to "facts" to support the position they are taking constantly.
If you are so prescriptive a person, that you can't accept that when say Andrew Bolt discredits the facts presented by an ABC presenter, he is fact checking their content as presented.
Then obviously unless the words fact check are inserted into the programme name, you wont see it as a case of fact checking, there is probably a name for that disorder.
Obsessive and pedantic springs to mind. ?

Bolt's program has nothing to do with fact checking!
You keep confusing opinion pieces with facts.
You made claims about fact checking being subjective.
Where is an example?

 

[sptrawler]

Jeez you are hard work, but most know that already.
O.K to keep it on thread, in regard covid vaccination, the "facts" were presented as the low vaccination rate was due to lack of vaccine, then as was proven when the supply was available, the "fact" was hesitancy was the main issue, not supply. We were producing AZ from the very early stages in Melbourne, but the media only presented the "fact" mRNA couldn't be sourced..
All the facts weren't presented by the media, only the fact that mRNA supply was an issue, there were many other "facts" available e.g AZ was available and people were hesitant to have it.
Even now when mRNA vaccine has been available for months, there are a large proportion of front line health worker who wont have it, causing the issue of mandatory vaccinations to be introduced.
You saying Bolts programme has nothing to do with "facts", is your opinion, there are a lot of people who no doubt think what he says is based on "facts", which is what I've being saying since the beginning the media is rubbish.
Your confusing a debate on the presentation of "facts" by the media, as a debate on the application of the English language, best you have that with the media IMO.

 

[sptrawler]

Wow from one of the Worlds slowest vaccination rates, to one of the Worlds fastest vaccination rates, shows what a dose of reality and fear can do. Yeh go Scomo. ?

NSW COVID-19 vaccination rate now among world's fastest

An ABC analysis shows NSW's COVID-19 vaccination rate has surged to rank among the fastest in the world, based on data from the past seven days.

www.abc.net.au

 

[rederob]

Jeez you are hard work, but most know that already.
O.K to keep it on thread, in regard covid vaccination, the "facts" were presented as the low vaccination rate was due to lack of vaccine, then as was proven when the supply was available, the "fact" was hesitancy was the main issue, not supply.
All the facts weren't presented by the media, only the fact that mRNA supply was an issue, there were many other "facts" available e.g AZ was available and people were hesitant to have it.
Even now when mRNA vaccine has been available for months, there are a large proportion of front line health worker who wont have it, causing the issue of mandatory vaccinations to be introduced.

I might be hard work to you, but if you claim that facts are subjective - and you did - where are examples?
As it is the case that facts in logic are objective, so then a subjective fact would be an oxymoron.
Several posters on vaccine efficacy in this thread present consistently debunked, false and misleading information.
I and others have countered this with explanations and links to information showing their posts lack merit, and I personally regard such contributions as dangers to health if believed.

 

[sptrawler]

I might be hard work to you, but if you claim that facts are subjective - and you did - where are examples?
As it is the case that facts in logic are objective, so then a subjective fact would be an oxymoron.
Several posters on vaccine efficacy in this thread present consistently debunked, false and misleading information.
I and others have countered this with explanations and links to information showing their posts lack merit, and I personally regard such contributions as dangers to health if believed.

I said facts as presented are subjective, due to the ability of the presenter to include or omit the facts, which don't agree with their opinion or can dilute the intended message .

That's a fact. ?

 

[rederob]

Wow from one of the Worlds slowest vaccination rates, to one of the Worlds fastest vaccination rates, shows what a dose of reality and fear can do. Yeh go Scomo. ?

NSW COVID-19 vaccination rate now among world's fastest

An ABC analysis shows NSW's COVID-19 vaccination rate has surged to rank among the fastest in the world, based on data from the past seven days.

www.abc.net.au

Scomo has been the problem, and the States have been the solution.

In Queensland the feds still control 70% of vaccine distribution.
Given the immediate success States have had in improving rates you might have thought the feds would have learned something by now, given we are almost 10 million doses below original target.

 

[sptrawler]

How many deaths have we had? In short it is only those who are trying to gain political mileage that care, most who wanted a vaccination received one, as hesitancy was a major issue. That probably saved the Governments ar$e. ?

 

[rederob]

How many deaths have we had?

The proper metric is case fatality rate and we have had about 2 deaths from each 100 cases.

In short it is only those who are trying to gain political mileage that care,

Your opinion, versus the fact that I care.

most who wanted a vaccination received one,

Untrue, as I know 8 people who are still being advised that October is the earliest they will receive their vaccination, and that's just through everyday conversations.

That probably saved the Governments ar$e. ?

What you really mean is Scomo's incompetence has cost lives.

 

[sptrawler]

We are staring to see the media "facts" coming out as we speak.
This is the media's "facts", lets see what happens? Are these "facts" or just what the way this media wants to present as the "facts".
If indeed they are the facts, when will it ever be possible to return to normal?
What are they basing the "facts" on, apart from ANU experts, which in itself must mean it is absolutely accurate, because they always give the "facts".

No Cookies | The Courier Mail

No Cookies

www.couriermail.com.au

From the article:
The Prime Minister’s plan to reopen the country at a 70-80 per cent vaccination rate and treat the Delta variant “like the flu” has been slammed as dangerous and reckless by some of the nation’s top health and economic researchers.
According to modelling from the Australian National University, if Scott Morrison’s current coronavirus plan proceeds, tens of thousands Australians will likely die and hundreds of thousands will likely develop cases of long Covid.

“We found substantial morbidity and mortality is likely to occur if the Australian government sticks to the national plan,” ANU economics professor and study co-author Quentin Grafton said.

If Australia reopens with 70 per cent of Australians aged over 16 fully vaccinated, there could eventually be 6.9 million cases of Covid-19, 154,000 hospitalisations, and 29,000 fatalities, Professor Grafton said.

“We simply can’t afford to do that, both in terms of lives and long-term illness from Covid,” he said.
And even if the PM waits until 80 per cent of the adult population are vaccinated to open up, thousands of lives will still be destroyed, according to the modelling.

“Assuming 80 per cent vaccination coverage for only those over 16, as per the national plan, there could be approximately 25,000 fatalities and some 270,000 cases of long Covid,” Professor Grafton said.
“The consequences of prematurely and fully relaxing public health measures to suppress Covid-19, even after vaccinating 80 per cent of adults, would likely be irreversible, and unacceptable to many Australians,” study co-author and University of Western Australia senior research officer Zoë Hyde echoed.

“It’s simply too dangerous to treat Covid-19 like the flu,” Dr Hyde said.

I said Media Watch presented media analysis rather than facts, so I have no idea what you watch that is actually fact checking as you earlier stated.
You then offered two print media articles that give modelling outcomes against different vaccination rates.
What's your point?
Models use real world data (aka "facts") about covid to derive likely consequences.
It is proven that vaccinations reduce illness, hospitalisation and death rates.
It is proven that mitigation measures reduce spread and can lead to local level elimination of covid.
What facts are "subjective" as you earlier claimed?

My point is as I said, the media is presenting "expert" data as "facts", when they are omitting where the data is derived from, is the data derived from overseas information, if so which country? Is their climate the same as ours? As that effects likely outcomes.
Is the general health of the population, where the data is obtained, from similar to ours?
There are a multitude of reference points that need to be compared to ours to derive likely consequences.
Will 70% and 80% vaccination rates be achieved before summer, or mid winter, that will have a bearing, on the "facts".
Or is the article a worst possible scenario? Derived by Professor Grafton, a professor of economics?

Quentin Grafton

researchprofiles.anu.edu.au

But let's be honest, don't let the truth get in the way of media "facts", or a good story. ?

 

[sptrawler]

The proper metric is case fatality rate and we have had about 2 deaths from each 100 cases.

So that is how many deaths?

Your opinion, versus the fact that I care.

No need to get sulky

Untrue, as I know 8 people who are still being advised that October is the earliest they will receive their vaccination, and that's just through everyday conversations.

Why were they so hesitant and only applied recently?

What you really mean is Scomo's incompetence has cost lives.

Your opinion, many are still trying to get back to Australia and many have come to Australia, to ride out the virus, due to our excellent record.
The election is soon, it will show one way or another, it is of note that the "Australian" has had a 50% increase in circulation, maybe the ex Fairfax boys aren't getting the traction they think?

 

[sptrawler]

What you really mean is Scomo's incompetence has cost lives.

Just to clear that up for you. ?
As I said earlier the media will decide the election, as people are zoning out from the constant "white noise".

Coalition gains on pandemic management as Morrison holds ground, Labor vote falls

Latest data from the Resolve Political Monitor shows the Coalition’s primary vote back to the level that won it the 2019 election.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Voters have swung to the Coalition and backed Prime Minister Scott Morrison on key personal measures, lifting the government’s primary vote from 38 to 40 per cent amid a debate about when to end lockdowns.

The government has gained ground among voters on its response to the pandemic and management of the economy, while Labor has seen its primary vote fall from 35 to 32 per cent.
The findings are part of a new survey that shows 46 per cent of voters prefer Mr Morrison as Prime Minister compared to 23 per cent who favour Labor leader Anthony Albanese, with another 31 per cent undecided and the results barely changed over the past month.
The Resolve Political Monitor, conducted for The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age by research company Resolve Strategic, finds the Coalition has recovered some support from voters on policy issues as the same time it increased its primary vote.

“This extends the Coalition’s primary vote lead to the highest in our 2021 tracking so far and equal to the 2019 election lead,” said Resolve director Jim Reed.
Support for the Greens was steady at 12 per cent while support for independent candidates rose from 7 to 10 per cent and Pauline Hanson’s One Nation fell from 4 to 2 per cent.