Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[moXJO]

This links to a recent press conference in Beijing, where all the recent and most topical issues were raised by both international and Chinese media organisations.
Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying's replies were detailed and forthright.
The claim that China is thwarting an examination of the events and response surrounding COV19 was firmly put to bed, as were many other matters.
Of course there are many readers who will simply say it's Chinese propaganda and not worth a cracker. It's one thing to say it, however, and another to prove it. Hua's arsenal of facts was formidable and you will be hard pressed to find any misstep.
Comparing her performance to anything this year from the USA is like comparing cheese with chalk.

It is propaganda though. And you haven't based anything off any evidence.

 

[moXJO]

Was floating through a few forums saw this pop up in a thread.

Nov 15, 2019
a very infectious form of plague has just hit prc. don’t know how patients are quarantined, but there’s widespread panic now in beijing. prc really brings deadly diseases to the planet. may just wipe out 69% of their population first.

It's reported to be a rat-borne disease but there are rumors that it could be the black plague.

And the Chicoms are secretive about it again... not unlike during the SARS outbreak back then.

https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/br...-collapse-of-china.276238/page-2#post-3002057

That was back in nov 15.

This is now heavily popping up in the socials.
Greenspring Retirement Community June 30.


Rob mentioned the French having it earlier, more then likely due to the wuhan military games in October.

 

[noirua]

Will Covid-19 mutate into a more dangerous virus?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/10/will-covid-19-mutate-into-a-more-dangerous-virus

New York warns of children's illness linked to Covid-19 after three deaths
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/09/children-coronavirus-death-kawasaki

 

[macca]

We were chatting with a friend over the weekend and she was telling us about her close friend in China.

Our friend has serious health problems and was advised at Christmas Time by her Chinese friend to stock up and isolate herself should a new virus arrive from China as it was killing anyone who had chronic illness

Our friend was talking with her friend again last week and she said the second wave had started in China and is just as bad if not worse than the first, many people are dying again.

I realise that this is just one person but it is an unfiltered assessment of her locality in China and she and her family are all quite scared of this thing.

It ain't over yet folks..............

 

[rederob]

Hmmm... France in December and New Jersey in November.
The plot thickens.

 

[moXJO]

Hmmm... France in December and New Jersey in November.
The plot thickens.

Jesus, wuhan military games.
They were in October.
Now who is off on conspiracy theories.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

tying it together, chaps (a bit)

Recently and widely diffused, a dateline mid October: ( The Telegraph UK )

US intelligence agencies are reportedly examining mobile phone data suggesting there could have been an emergency shutdown in October at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
According to a report, obtained by NBC News, there was no mobile phone activity in a high-security part of the Chinese laboratory complex from October 7 to 24. Previously, there had been consistent use of mobile phones.

and reprinted in local press https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/wo...ible-shutdown-in-october-20200510-p54rid.html

and also, the French radio report, a RF2 report from France suspecting the first Covid-19 case in France on 16 Nov. (looking at 2500 thoracic scans from the time.
https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/san...-des-le-mois-de-novembre-en-alsace-1588830642

Up to you, .... and if you like a bit of google, this is interesting:

There is new evidence to show that China locked down all domestic traffic internally by end January 2020 but pushed to open foreign travel till end March. Data from Tom Tom traffic index, a traffic location site that covers 416 cities across 57 countries show that as a result of this strategy, China, intentionally or otherwise, was able to lockdown its cities unknown to the world.

While this reduced the spread of the Corona virus within China, China’s aggressive foreign travel policy lead to a virus explosion worldwide. Here is the chronological events of what happened with the requisite traffic data from 10 major cities globally and the statements from Chinese leaders that will help readers reach their own conclusions.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...nally-for-covid-19-but-pushed-foreign-travel/

 

[rederob]

tying it together, chaps (a bit)

Recently and widely diffused, a dateline mid October: ( The Telegraph UK )
and reprinted in local press https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/wo...ible-shutdown-in-october-20200510-p54rid.html

and also, the French radio report, a RF2 report from France suspecting the first Covid-19 case in France on 16 Nov. (looking at 2500 thoracic scans from the time.
https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/san...-des-le-mois-de-novembre-en-alsace-1588830642

Up to you, .... and if you like a bit of google, this is interesting:https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...nally-for-covid-19-but-pushed-foreign-travel/

I doubt there are many facts amongst all that.
Reporting on COV19 is so poor that most people have no idea that the WHO has no authority to declare a "pandemic. Instead, on 30 January the UN Director-General declared that the outbreak constituted a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC).

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Scientists have begun narrowing down how the coronavirus is spreading, and also pinpointing when it first began transmission around the world — and it’s earlier than first thought.

University College London’s Genetics Institute have screened the genomes of more than 7500 viruses from infected patients around the world. “Phylogenetic estimates support that the COVID-2 pandemic started sometime around October 6, 2019 to December 11, 2019, which corresponds to the time of the host jump into humans,” lead researcher Francois Balloux said.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/may/mutations-sars-cov-2-offer-insights-virus-evolution

 

[bellenuit]

The World Health Organization declared a global pandemic due to the rise of COVID-19

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-does-it-mean-to-declare-a-pandemic

Who Can Declare a Pandemic and What Criteria Are Required for an Outbreak to Be Called a Pandemic?

The World Health Organization (WHO) is responsible for declaring a pandemic.

https://www.britannica.com/story/wh...uired-for-an-outbreak-to-be-called-a-pandemic

WHO declares the coronavirus outbreak a pandemic

The World Health Organization on Wednesday declared the rapidly spreading coronavirus outbreak a pandemic, acknowledging what has seemed clear for some time — the virus will likely spread to all countries on the globe.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/who-declares-the-coronavirus-outbreak-a-pandemic/

 

[DB008]

Hoping Llamas Will Become Coronavirus Heroes​

Winter is a 4-year-old chocolate-colored llama with spindly legs, ever-so-slightly askew ears and envy-inducing eyelashes. Some scientists hope she might be an important figure in the fight against the novel coronavirus.​

She is not a superpowered camelid. Winter was simply the lucky llama chosen by researchers in Belgium, where she lives, to participate in a series of virus studies involving both SARS and MERS. Finding that her antibodies staved off those infections, the scientists posited that those same antibodies could also neutralize the new virus that causes Covid-19. They were right, and published their results Tuesday in the journal Cell.​

Scientists have long turned to llamas for antibody research. In the last decade, for example, scientists have used llamas’ antibodies in H.I.V. and influenza research, finding promising therapies for both viruses.​

Humans produce only one kind of antibody, made of two types of protein chains — heavy and light — that together form a Y shape. Heavy-chain proteins span the entire Y, while light-chain proteins touch only the Y’s arms. Llamas, on the other hand, produce two types of antibodies. One of those antibodies is similar in size and constitution to human antibodies. But the other is much smaller; it’s only about 25 percent the size of human antibodies. The llama’s antibody still forms a Y, but its arms are much shorter because it doesn’t have any light-chain proteins.​

More on link below

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/science/llama-coronavirus-antibodies.html


​

 

[rederob]

The World Health Organization declared a global pandemic due to the rise of COVID-19

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-does-it-mean-to-declare-a-pandemic

Who Can Declare a Pandemic and What Criteria Are Required for an Outbreak to Be Called a Pandemic?

The World Health Organization (WHO) is responsible for declaring a pandemic.

https://www.britannica.com/story/wh...uired-for-an-outbreak-to-be-called-a-pandemic

WHO declares the coronavirus outbreak a pandemic

The World Health Organization on Wednesday declared the rapidly spreading coronavirus outbreak a pandemic, acknowledging what has seemed clear for some time — the virus will likely spread to all countries on the globe.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/who-declares-the-coronavirus-outbreak-a-pandemic/

The WHO can assess a virus as being characterised as pandemic, but it means nothing in terms of what the WHO actually does, that is, act within its powers.
The powers of the WHO are limited to when the UN Director-General declares an outbreak as a Public Health Emergency of International Concern.
You will not find anywhere in the WHO's powers that it can make an official declaration of a pandemic.
Maybe that needs to change.
However, if it were to change then it would also need to confer on the WHO additional powers and responsibilities, and these would necessarily override the powers of member nations. That's never going to happen as even within nations we have seen federal governments unable to dictate terms to their States who have their own legislative powers.

 

[basilio]

Hmmm... France in December and New Jersey in November.
The plot thickens.

That reference Rederob offers is startling. Seems like there is evidence the virus had already spread widely through New Jersey in November 2019.
It challenges the current view that the virus started in Wuhan
I have posted a short part of a response from poster T.P. The remainder explores this proposition in detail


T. P. 2 days ago
On June 30, 2019, way before the outbreak in Wuhan, a “respiratory outbreak” occurred in Greenspring Retirement Community in Springfield, Virginia. Fifty-four old folks became ill with "respiratory symptoms ranging from upper respiratory symptoms (cough) to pneumonia" with symptoms of "fever, cough, body aches, wheezing, hoarseness and general weakness." It was assumed that this was the “usual” illness despite Benjamin Schwartz, a health department director, stating that "Seeing a respiratory outbreak in a long-term care facility is not odd [but] one thing that's different about this outbreak is just that it's occurring in the summer when, usually, we don't have a lot of respiratory disease." [ https://abcnews.go.com/US/respiratory-outbreak-investigated-retirement-community-54-residents-fall/story?id=64275865 ]

In late January 2020, Dr. Helen Y. Chu, an infectious disease expert in Seattle, requested state and federal officials for permission to test the nasal swabs that she and her team had been collecting for months, for Covid-19. The collections were done prior to the outbreak in Wuhan as part of her team’s “Seattle Flu Study” project. She and her team were denied this permission by the government, decided to go ahead without “government approval” on February 25, 2020, and discovered that some of these “flu” were actually “Covid-19”. Dr Chu’s immediate thoughts were: “It must have been here this entire time … it’s just everywhere already.” [ NYT, March 10, 2020 ].

 

[moXJO]

You guys are quoting from China global television network.
It's the propaganda arm

 

[bellenuit]

You will not find anywhere in the WHO's powers that it can make an official declaration of a pandemic.

WHO's powers to declare a pandemic are given to it by International Health Regulations (IHR). IHR is the leading international agreement on infectious diseases and other serious disease events adopted by WHO member states in 2005.

WHO has made an official declaration of a pandemic several times in the past.

I will again quote from Encyclopaedia Britannica to assist with your badly needed edification....

Who Can Declare a Pandemic and What Criteria Are Required for an Outbreak to Be Called a Pandemic?

The World Health Organization (WHO) is responsible for declaring a pandemic.

https://www.britannica.com/story/wh...uired-for-an-outbreak-to-be-called-a-pandemic

From the same source....

In March 2020 an ongoing outbreak of a novel coronavirus known as severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV2) was declared a pandemic by WHO officials. Infection with SARS-CoV2 produced an illness known as coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19);

There are hundreds of sources that directly contradict your claim. Another to add to the list...

WHO declares a pandemic of coronavirus disease covid-19

The World Health Organization on Wednesday declared coronavirus a pandemic, reflecting alarm that countries aren’t working quickly and aggressively enough to fight the disease it causes, covid-19.

“We are deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity and by the alarming levels of inaction,” said WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

For weeks now, the WHO has hesitated to make the pandemic declaration, for fear of inciting panic or prompting some countries to flag in their efforts, even though many epidemiologists believed the coronavirus had already spread to pandemic levels.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/11/who-declares-pandemic-coronavirus-disease-covid-19/

 

[bellenuit]

However, if it were to change then it would also need to confer on the WHO additional powers and responsibilities, and these would necessarily override the powers of member nations. That's never going to happen as even within nations we have seen federal governments unable to dictate terms to their States who have their own legislative powers.

Additionally, on your second point.....

The IHR also grants WHO the authority to take actions that can challenge how governments exercise sovereignty. First, the IHR authorizes WHO to collect disease-event information from non-governmental sources, seek verification from governments about such information, and, if necessary, share the information with other states. Second, the IHR grants the WHO director-general the power to declare a public health emergency of international concern, even if the state experiencing the outbreak objects. Third, the IHR gives WHO the authority to reinforce the requirement that a state party shall provide the scientific and public health justification for trade or travel restrictions that do not conform to WHO recommendations or accepted disease-control measures. Fourth, the IHR requires states parties to protect human rights when managing disease events—protections for which WHO, as a champion of a human-rights approach to health, is a leading guardian.

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/world-health-organization-and-pandemic-politics

 

[rederob]

WHO's powers to declare a pandemic are given to it by International Health Regulations (IHR). IHR is the leading international agreement on infectious diseases and other serious disease events adopted by WHO member states in 2005.
View attachment 103399

WHO has made an official declaration of a pandemic several times in the past.

I will again quote from Encyclopaedia Britannica to assist with your badly needed edification....

Who Can Declare a Pandemic and What Criteria Are Required for an Outbreak to Be Called a Pandemic?

The World Health Organization (WHO) is responsible for declaring a pandemic.

https://www.britannica.com/story/wh...uired-for-an-outbreak-to-be-called-a-pandemic

From the same source....

In March 2020 an ongoing outbreak of a novel coronavirus known as severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV2) was declared a pandemic by WHO officials. Infection with SARS-CoV2 produced an illness known as coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19);

There are hundreds of sources that directly contradict your claim. Another to add to the list...

WHO declares a pandemic of coronavirus disease covid-19

The World Health Organization on Wednesday declared coronavirus a pandemic, reflecting alarm that countries aren’t working quickly and aggressively enough to fight the disease it causes, covid-19.

“We are deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity and by the alarming levels of inaction,” said WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

For weeks now, the WHO has hesitated to make the pandemic declaration, for fear of inciting panic or prompting some countries to flag in their efforts, even though many epidemiologists believed the coronavirus had already spread to pandemic levels.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/11/who-declares-pandemic-coronavirus-disease-covid-19/

Nice try but no cigar.
Neither the WHO nor it's IHR confer an official capacity to declare a pandemic.
The WHO can and does characterise some infections as pandemic in nature, and will make such announcements.
I suggest you use the IHR as the basis of your comments as I made my point clear about what journalism keeps getting wrong.

 

[rederob]

Additionally, on your second point.....
The IHR also grants WHO the authority to take actions that can challenge how governments exercise sovereignty.

That is false as the statement is wholly inconsistent with the charter of the United Nations.
The WHO can seek that Member States adhere to their obligations under the IHR, and make recommendations in the best interests of all parties.
As we have seen, nations continue to act as they see fit and the WHO is powerless to intervene.

 

[bellenuit]

Nice try but no cigar.
Neither the WHO nor it's IHR confer an official capacity to declare a pandemic.
The WHO can and does characterise some infections as pandemic in nature, and will make such announcements.
I suggest you use the IHR as the basis of your comments as I made my point clear about what journalism keeps getting wrong.

Are you blind or just stupid?

 

[bellenuit]

That is false as the statement is wholly inconsistent with the charter of the United Nations.
The WHO can seek that Member States adhere to their obligations under the IHR, and make recommendations in the best interests of all parties.
As we have seen, nations continue to act as they see fit and the WHO is powerless to intervene.

It would not matter in the slightest what powers the WHO are given. They do not have an army, so are powerless to intervene no matter what.