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Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%

  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%

  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • Total voters
    75
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Who here is surprised?


China deliberately destroyed evidence about start of coronavirus, report says
​
A research assessment said to be compiled by the ‘Five Eyes’ intelligence alliance of Western states has stated that the Chinese government had deliberately hidden or destroyed evidence about the start of coronavirus in the country.

The document charts how Beijing had initially denied that the disease could be transmitted between humans, silenced or ‘disappeared’ medics who tried to warn of the outbreak, blocked access to international organisations from Wuhan where it originated, and refused to provide live samples to scientists abroad trying to find a vaccine.

The ‘Five Eyes’ intelligence network of the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand has been sharing information on Covid-19​


'Silenced or disappeared medics' is an interesting way to say kidnapped and/or murdered whistleblowers.

Is the propergandist pro Chinese user RedRob still participating in this thread? Just a friendly user tip - click on the user name and block them. Easy done.
 
DB008 said:
Is the propergandist pro Chinese user RedRob still participating in this thread?
Click to expand...
I would rephrase as "pro Chinese Communist Party" a supple but key difference for my Chinese friends..
But i agree with the final recommendation
 
macca said:
Seems this may get a public run after all, it has been known but shut down for years.

Interesting comment that people with good Vit D do 50% better against all upper respiratory infections, this was proven in the USA to include the flu but the CDC won't have it.

They would rather give everyone a flu jab with an average success rate of between 10% and 30% than suggest they take a Vit D supplement from autumn to spring and get a 50% success rate.............. I wonder why ?

Experts claim those with low vitamin D levels
A new study has found having low levels of a particular vitamin could make people more likely to die from coronavirus. The kicker is: lockdown isn’t helping.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coron...s/news-story/8207fd86200fd4902b25d47990464f6a
Click to expand...
Why do you choose advertising sites rather than peer reviewed material?
 
DB008 said:
Who here is surprised?


China deliberately destroyed evidence about start of coronavirus, report says
​
A research assessment said to be compiled by the ‘Five Eyes’ intelligence alliance of Western states has stated that the Chinese government had deliberately hidden or destroyed evidence about the start of coronavirus in the country.

The document charts how Beijing had initially denied that the disease could be transmitted between humans, silenced or ‘disappeared’ medics who tried to warn of the outbreak, blocked access to international organisations from Wuhan where it originated, and refused to provide live samples to scientists abroad trying to find a vaccine.

The ‘Five Eyes’ intelligence network of the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand has been sharing information on Covid-19​


'Silenced or disappeared medics' is an interesting way to say kidnapped and/or murdered whistleblowers.

Is the propergandist pro Chinese user RedRob still participating in this thread? Just a friendly user tip - click on the user name and block them. Easy done.
Click to expand...
Too funny.
Sinophobia is alive and well here.
Your reference material is a crock of cobblers.
I ask that those who slight China and the WHO offer actual evidence.
Instead we get a constant steam of conspiracy theorist nonsense and sensationalising rubbish from disinformation peddlers.
It is true that some Wuhan doctors were required to sign our equivalent of non-disclosure agreements so as not to cause fear and panic in the community, but they did actually break Chinese laws relating to their access to information and using social media to spread it. None in Wuhan were jailed, kidnapped or murdered!
Aside from that, similar articles to the one linked above, which are doing the rounds of global right wind media organisations, are mostly factually baseless.
 
Rather than pursuing China to allow investigation of the source, an investigation which becomes harder and harder to do as time goes by, it would be better to revamp the constitution of WHO. China is not going to allow outside investigation under any circumstances, so that is a waste of time.

WHO should have an international team within it whose task is to investigate new outbreaks as soon as they happen and it should be mandatory for WHO members to facilitate the work of that task force. Refusing to do so should mean automatic expulsion from WHO. That won't ensure China would allow such investigations in the future, but it would mean expulsion not to do so and would also mean that the world would not be reliant on just a few countries to pursue investigation as is the present case with all the risks associated with intimidation due to their bully boy tactics.
 
bellenuit said:
Rather than pursuing China to allow investigation of the source, an investigation which becomes harder and harder to do as time goes by, it would be better to revamp the constitution of WHO. China is not going to allow outside investigation under any circumstances, so that is a waste of time.

WHO should have an international team within it whose task is to investigate new outbreaks as soon as they happen and it should be mandatory for WHO members to facilitate the work of that task force. Refusing to do so should mean automatic expulsion from WHO. That won't ensure China would allow such investigations in the future, but it would mean expulsion not to do so and would also mean that the world would not be reliant on just a few countries to pursue investigation as is the present case with all the risks associated with intimidation due to their bully boy tactics.
Click to expand...

Or just form another health organisation of countries that are willing to comply and cut off funding to WHO.
 
SirRumpole said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/world/asia/chinese-doctor-Li-Wenliang-coronavirus.html
Click to expand...
It was a tragedy he died, but he was not the only doctor, and at the time of Li's death some 1716 health workers in China had contracted COVID-19, of which 6 had died.
However, had the NY Times done a better job they would have been aware he raised his views in a medical record as early as 25 December, and on 29 December the Wuhan Municipal Health Commission ran a conference on what was then known as a novel coronavirus. Li was certainly reprimanded over his private warning to doctors on his Wechat group on 30 December, but at this point in time there was no secret about the virus. The WHO was advised on 31 December, and the Health Commission simultaneously posted information on their website: several media organisations reported it.
This seems to be a case of hiding a novel coronavirus in plain sight!
 
bellenuit said:
China is not going to allow outside investigation under any circumstances, so that is a waste of time.
Click to expand...
That's simply untrue.
An international team visited China in February:
"The Joint Mission consisted of 25 national and international experts from China, Germany, Japan, Korea, Nigeria, Russia, Singapore, the United States of America and the World Health Organization (WHO). The Joint Mission was headed by Dr Bruce Aylward of WHO and Dr Wannian Liang of the People’s Republic of China. The full list of members and their affiliations is available in Annex A. The Joint Mission was implemented over a 9-day period from 16-24 February 2020. The schedule of work is available in Annex B. The Joint Mission began with a detailed workshop with representatives of all of the principal ministries that are leading and/or contributing to the response in China through the National Prevention and Control Task Force. A series of in-depth meetings were then conducted with national level institutions responsible for the management, implementation and evaluation of the response, particularly the National Health Commission and the China Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (China CDC). To gain first-hand knowledge on the field level implementation and impact of the national and local response strategy, under a range of epidemiologic and provincial contexts, visits were conducted to Beijing Municipality and the provinces of Sichuan (Chengdu), Guangdong (Guangzhou, Shenzhen) and Hubei (Wuhan). The field visits included community centers and health clinics, country/district hospitals, COVID-19 designated hospitals, transportations hubs (air, rail, road), a wet market, pharmaceutical and personal protective equipment (PPE) stocks warehouses, research institutions, provincial health commissions, and local Centers for 1 In the Chinese version of this report, COVID-19 is referred to throughout as novel coronavirus pneumonia or NCP, the term by which COVID-19 is most widely known in the People’s Republic of China. 4 Disease Control (provincial and prefecture)."
​
Over the past week I have watched a number of politicians being asked about what exactly would be investigated, and none had an answer, other than "we should investigate these matters!" Most nations of the world have a voice at the United Nations and they can canvass their concerns about what they want investigated at that forum.
Given that the WHO has been able to achieve considerable cooperation with China already in reviewing COVID-19 impacts etc., it would seem a smarter option to work through them than indulge in a persistent blame game.

bellenuit said:
WHO should have an international team within it whose task is to investigate new outbreaks as soon as they happen and it should be mandatory for WHO members to facilitate the work of that task force.
Click to expand...
The WHO did what they have done many times in response to disease outbreaks, and it's done on a cooperative basis rather than one where they say who does what. The only reason this outbreak is controversial is due to sheer ignorance of the facts.
​
 
rederob said:
Too funny.
Sinophobia is alive and well here.
Your reference material is a crock of cobblers.
I ask that those who slight China and the WHO offer actual evidence.
Instead we get a constant steam of conspiracy theorist nonsense and sensationalising rubbish from disinformation peddlers.
It is true that some Wuhan doctors were required to sign our equivalent of non-disclosure agreements so as not to cause fear and panic in the community, but they did actually break Chinese laws relating to their access to information and using social media to spread it. None in Wuhan were jailed, kidnapped or murdered!
Aside from that, similar articles to the one linked above, which are doing the rounds of global right wind media organisations, are mostly factually baseless.
Click to expand...
Your post is utter rubbish. I notice you slide more and more with each story towards total propaganda.

Why are they censoring WeChat and YY?


Now you are denying doctors didn't get silenced with the latest propaganda straight from the CCP.

How about Chen Qiushi?
 
bellenuit said:
Rather than pursuing China to allow investigation of the source, an investigation which becomes harder and harder to do as time goes by, it would be better to revamp the constitution of WHO. China is not going to allow outside investigation under any circumstances, so that is a waste of time.

WHO should have an international team within it whose task is to investigate new outbreaks as soon as they happen and it should be mandatory for WHO members to facilitate the work of that task force. Refusing to do so should mean automatic expulsion from WHO. That won't ensure China would allow such investigations in the future, but it would mean expulsion not to do so and would also mean that the world would not be reliant on just a few countries to pursue investigation as is the present case with all the risks associated with intimidation due to their bully boy tactics.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting proposition bellenuit. I suggest the problem is that WHO is an international organisation which has no independent funding and relies on the support of all countries.
Countries aren't forced to belong. WHO works with countries to help identify health problems and offer support to deal with them.

How can one make it mandatory to facilitate the work of a task force ? Who enforces such a directive ? Which US administration for example, present or past would allow an international body to just decide it was going to come into a country to investigate a serious health threat? WHO is always been an orgnisation that relied on diplomacy and being "nice" to gain effective access to countries which had serious health issues. Blind Freddy would realise that no government wants to be shown up with a serious health issue. Politically far better t stay mum and bury the bodies if you can get away with it..:2twocents
 
As We Mull Leaving Lockdown, Is Sweden Model the Way Forward?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...n_is_sweden_model_the_way_forward_143093.html

Sooner or later the lockdowns must end, as people become more afraid of losing their livelihood than losing their life, or as other overlooked mental and physical costs pile up to the breaking point. In the absence of effective and widespread vaccination, the viral spread can be slowed but not stopped. Singapore, for example, initially did well at containment, but now new cases are appearing. It is possible that Sweden's larger initial wave of infection pulled forward infections that other countries are likely to encounter in subsequent waves as those nations’ lockdowns are inevitably relaxed. Indeed, Dr. Michael Ryan, executive director of the health emergencies program of the World Health Organization, suggested that perhaps Sweden “represents a future model” of what a post-lockdown society might look like.
Click to expand...
 
moXJO said:
I suppose it depends on how much this virus weakens the lungs and body. Hearing a lot of blood clots and damaged lungs as a result.

The longer we can get data the better. At the same time the economy is an important factor as is mental health.
Click to expand...
That is the crux of it moxjo, we don't know yet if there is a long term effect, we don't even know if you can actually fully recover from it as there has been re infections.
At this point in time IMO the best outcome is not to get it, until as you say we know more about it, herd immunity is good until you find that there are long term consequences from having contracted it.
just my opinion.
 
moXJO said:
I suppose it depends on how much this virus weakens the lungs and body. Hearing a lot of blood clots and damaged lungs as a result.

The longer we can get data the better. At the same time the economy is an important factor as is mental health.
Click to expand...

Just saw a report (UK) that about 16% of people in intensive care suffer kidney failure due to blood clotting.
 
moXJO said:
I suppose it depends on how much this virus weakens the lungs and body. Hearing a lot of blood clots and damaged lungs as a result.

The longer we can get data the better. At the same time the economy is an important factor as is mental health.
Click to expand...
I hear ya but by the time we have all that data the cure will be worse than the disease re:economy and social impact.
The virus isn't going away and the linked paper below suggests that even after apparent elimination, a resurgence could be possible as late as 2024.
We need to bite the bullet sooner rather than later.
Time to quarantine the sick & vulnerable.
Release the hounds by the end of the month.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/04/24/science.abb5793
 
sptrawler said:
IMO it is just great there were no knee jerk reactions and a technically driven response was enacted, despite constant media pressure during the early phase.
Click to expand...

It's one way of looking at history I suppose Trawler;
The first positive test result on the 'Diamond Princess' was Feb 1 three days later it was Quarantined in Yokohama.... The Ruby Princess disgorged it infected passangers at Circular Key on Thursday 19 of March...

I'll take the wheel on the next country drive hey Trawler; The Roo's don't usually give me six weeks + notice.
 
orr said:
It's one way of looking at history I suppose Trawler;
The first positive test result on the 'Diamond Princess' was Feb 1 three days later it was Quarantined in Yokohama.... The Ruby Princess disgorged it infected passangers at Circular Key on Thursday 19 of March...

I'll take the wheel on the next country drive hey Trawler; The Roo's don't usually give me six weeks + notice.
Click to expand...
The Ruby Princess was a disaster, I wonder who's ar$e ended up in a sling over that one :roflmao:

Generally though everyone has behaved pretty well, considering it is a first run, credit where credit is due we aren't renowned for doing as we are told.:xyxthumbs
 
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