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Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%
  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%
  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%

  • Total voters
    75
Next:
December 21: Wuhan doctors begin to notice a “cluster of pneumonia cases with an unknown cause.
This claim is retrospectively based.

There is a particular way that doctors determine if the nature of pneumonia is not standard. It requires an antibiotic treatment regime to have run its course and be found to be ineffective. At 21 December a maximum of 5 patients met that criteria.
 

The first fatal case, who had continuous exposure to the market, was admitted to hospital because of a 7-day history of fever, cough, and dyspnoea. 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalised in the isolation ward.
 
This person died on 10 January. What was the date of wife’s admission?
 
The first case of someone in China suffering from
Covid-19
, the disease caused by the novel
coronavirus
, can be traced back to November 17, according to government data seen by the South China Morning Post.
Chinese authorities have so far identified at least 266 people who were infected last year, all of whom came under medical surveillance at some point.

By the final day of 2019, the number of confirmed cases had risen to 266, On the first day of 2020 it stood at 381.


Interesting if true. They didn't publish the docs so not really verifiable. But obviously looking at the spread rate over time in other countries it would line up. China is densely populated and no precautions at the time.
Have to remember we have been working of China's figures for most of the above.
 
The real pandemic starts the day lockdown ends.

The scenario they've suggested as one possible outcome is the one I've had in mind for a while now.

A few cases > a lot more cases > panic > lockdowns > number of new cases declines dramatically > a few cases > lockdowns end > a lot more cases...... rinse and repeat.

That's not a good approach in my view but I can see it happening for the reasons stated in your link.
 
There is no evidence this is true.
So far I have found nothing credible from four separate points examined.
Please offer a point you believe credible from the dozens posted.
 
No point getting involved between the little red book waving minion and common sense.
French is expected to relax lockdown on the 11/05 if slowdown of new sicks is carrying on
nearly 16000 death so far
On restart, masks wearing mandatory in public, and doubtvon school
The French medecine board is opposed to school reopening....
Compare this to Australia....
Masks wearing no school. When you actually face the issue...
Do your own research...
 
There is no evidence this is true.
So far I have found nothing credible from four separate points examined.
Please offer a point you believe credible from the dozens posted.
The numbers are more credible then the supposed 40-60 China offered up. Look at the first fatality case. He coughed and germed up 7 days before going to hospital. Given that you have a period before symptoms show and you are still infectious. And that he was working in a market.
What would you put the R value at in a completely unprotected situation. The average is R2.2. The first case presented to hospital was November 17. And that's just the one that actually went to hospital.
That's a long time out in public.
 
It seems your case relies on a lot of speculation about what was possible, but remained unproven.
If you want to show that the Chinese lied, then you need to offer substantive evidence.
It is no small matter for any nation to advise the WHO that you know something that you cannot substantiate, and then for the WHO to tell the rest of the world that based on speculation we think "x".
Lay people seem to forget that the very idea of viral pneumonia that does not respond to accepted antibiotic treatment is a huge RED flag, irrespective of where such an event occurred. It was also known to Wuhan Hospital administrators at least by 25 December that a doctor had written on a record that the virus was SARS-like.
I can imagine Wuhan's infectious disease experts were very active beyond anything we will ever read as there are life saving protocols that must be enacted when dealing with unknown viral diseases. I can also imagine that hospital staff seeing these protocols being enacted would be very concerned. It is also natural in our new world of social media that "news" of these precautions could leak out. However none of these aspects of what may have been occurring confirms that the Chinese were hiding definitive evidence of the claims you and others are making.
Based on China's previous attempt to hide SARS for as long as possible and internal repercussions of that event, a lot was now on the line for government officials failing to act transparently.
The one significant failing that I am sure will lead to heads rolling relates to changes in how patients with fever were being assessed, as from January it was (for over a week) reliant on exposure to the Wuhan wet market. That blunder does not change what China was able to definitively prove in their official advice to the WHO.
 
This argument gets tossed out once doctors are silenced/jailed and tests are halted.
Very little of what I said is speculation. It either happened or the numbers point that way.
If you do the basic numbers a lot of what China says does not add up.
 
Very little of what I said is speculation. It either happened or the numbers point that way.
Almost every claim you have made is speculative.
Please point to one which is rock solid and supports your contentions.
You are not offering substantive evidence.
I keep asking you for it and you link to stuff that is rock bottom.
 
Almost every claim you have made is speculative.
Please point to one which is rock solid and supports your contentions.
You are not offering substantive evidence.
I keep asking you for it and you link to stuff that is rock bottom.
I even provided supposed non existent letters. Times, dates, studies, modelling.

You on the other hand messed up debunking the first point. And once again the goalposts are shifting.

Let's talk about Tedros. I doubt most posters would know his history.
 
I even provided supposed non existent letters.
I had not seen the letter, but it simply asks about what has been reported.
I showed in this thread why the very first claim in your timeline was absolutely in error.
I responded to a few more points in this thread and there was nothing to hang your hat on.
I checked most of your other points and they were more speculation.
I repeat, you have offered zero definitive evidence to show that China has lied or that the WHO has been complicit.
This will be my last reply to you on this topic unless you have hard evidence rather than the speculation you continue to sprout.
 

You cannot in all seriousness say China hasn't lied.
I even showed their track record in previous posts of them fudging figures.

And you didn't show anything. You were guessing dates of infection.
 
Reactions: hja
You cannot in all seriousness say China hasn't lied.
And you didn't show anything.
You have proved nothing, apart from being good at speculation, and you now deny that the first point in your timeline was wrong!
At least I know why I put you on ignore.
 

moXJO,

Thanks you for putting that together. It corroborates information I have seen from many sources now. Everyone on this forum, whether they agree with moXJO's political views or not, should read it to fully understand the extent that the CCP went to cover up the original outbreak and obfuscate the nature of the virus and in so doing endangering human life and well being on the planet.

Only CCP sycophants or trolls would try to argue against those damning facts. And using arguments that there is no official CCP or WHO information to support those allegations is on a par with saying the Tiananmen Square massacre never happened because there is no mention of it in the official Chinese press.

It begs the question that I have asked several times. Why did the CCP admonish Western nations for imposing travel bans from China while at the same time it was putting its own citizens under the most stringent lockdown in modern times?
 
Reactions: hja
Really!
The very first point in the timeline is completely false.
Most of the rest relies on speculation.
This has nothing to do with political views and everything to do with what is credible.
Little wonder there are so many conspiracy theorists here.
It begs the question that I have asked several times. Why did the CCP admonish Western nations for imposing travel bans from China while at the same time it was putting its own citizens under the most stringent lockdown in modern times?
Every country reacts to bans so what would make China different? It went the diplomatic route that is usually taken and pretty much left it at that. At the same time China was allowing travel openly everywhere except for the province it quarantined (and in respect of those it was actively contact tracing).
Turning this into another conspiracy theory shows a shallow level of thinking.
 
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