Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[barney]

Not sure how your treatment suggestions can be credible as no reputable doctors recommend them.
Most people with covid have had it for at least 2 days before becoming symptomatic, and by that stage the things you referenced would be too late to have an impact. That is, the virus is now part of you and your immune system becomes your front line defence.
Good health and nutrition combined with vaccination to bolster your immune system are likely better than the unproven and unrecommended ideas you have posted.
If you personally believe in what you are taking then an equivalent to the placebo effect could work out for you, although this is not usually likely to be curative, as distinct from reducing the effects of symptoms. However, some of the treatments you have referenced have harmful side effects so I am balancing medically inappropriate ideas with a suggestion that ill people visit their doctors for appropriate treatment if their immune systems have not prevented covid symptoms from worsening.

Omicron and double vaxxing to date has proven to have a comparatively low incidence of hospitalisation, and @moXJO's detailed story so far is typical of the many experiences I have read about. In the UK a majority of people over 65 (95% from memory) have also had booster vaccines. We are behind the eight ball here, but I will be lining up in February when it's available at the 4 month point (UK made it available at 3 months).

Good post Red and I agree with some of it, respect your narrative in other parts, but also disagree with certain aspects. No surprise there I'm sure

I'll post a study after this post on one aspect on some of the "medically inappropriate ideas" I have mentioned above

Totally agree with the nutrition/good health aspect. I personally have a regimen of prophylaxes "treatments" in place, to make sure my immune system is up to scratch for when I do catch it, and I probably will. You state these precautions are unproven and unrecommended. I respect your opinion to say that.

That aside, I gargle with listerine before i go out and when I get home. At the hint of a scratchy throat (had many of those recently) I use my "inappropriate" nebulizer once a day (iodine/H2O2) .... tested 4 times for covid ..... so far so good/negative

I personally know over a dozen people who recently had covid. Probably slightly more un-vaxxed than vaxxed but similar. All had the same outcome. Most had similar symptoms as @moXJO is experiencing.
My Son became symptomatic a few days after being suspicious of symptoms .... severe headaches for 2 days ..... ran out of puff easily for a couple of days. Total loss of taste for a week or so/returned gradually after another week, so likely had Delta. Unvaxxed and basically took no medications other than a few panadol. Great to be young and healthy! I was a close contact and probably should have caught it, but didnt for some reason ..... lucky.

Given the exponential increase in cases across Oz and our high Vax rates, I think its safe to suggest that the un-vaxxed have no more effect on the spread of the disease than the jabbed at this point. MS Media still seems to promote otherwise at every opportunity but that is not worth arguing about.

My opinion, the Omicron fella can infect anyone, and the degree of sickness (in my small world of experience) indicates that being vaccinated seems to make bugger all difference to the outcome when you do catch it. Of course I respect everyone's right to get jabbed if that is what they choose. I still have too many unanswered questions regarding the whole scenario to consider it an option. Cheers.

 

[wayneL]

FYI

 

[barney]

Excerpt from a small study involving various therapies including Nebulized H2O2

Bear in mind this study was printed in July 2020 when Covid had "No treatments"

Zero deaths and fast recovery rates

One Practice has been using nebulized H2O2 for over 2 decades

Zero adverse reactions to hydrogen peroxide in the study

I dont expect to convince anyone, but the process looks pretty safe if administered correctly

Study Results etc

 

[rederob]

Totally agree with the nutrition/good health aspect. I personally have a regimen of prophylaxes "treatments" in place, to make sure my immune system is up to scratch for when I do catch it, and I probably will. You state these precautions are unproven and unrecommended. I respect your opinion to say that.

No, there is a difference between a precaution and a treatment.
I suggest that people take every reasonable precaution as possible, and if that's taking supplements or gargling, or being OCD on hand sanitising, then go for it.

Treatments are those things that are medically proven to assist in recovery.

In relation to Omicron, it appears to have been present in a person for a very long time and mutated massively in that period without killing the host. (The other possibility is that it went human to animal and then back to human, as there is nothing genetically close.) That's a simple explanation of its infectiousness and its presently-believed lesser serious nature. WRT vaxxed versus unvaxxed for Omicron the early info suggests vaxxing is only mitigating serious disease. Still early days, so can't be definitive. Hospitalisations are definitely increasing but deaths are not yet following the numbers. Again, not enough info to tell vaxxed from unvaxxed.

(Edit: I read your study. Medically worthless. You could have given them chocolate and got the same results!)

 

[DB008]

Why people have mixed feelings about what our leaders are saying on the vaccine

Certainly interesting with Omicron on the rampage

.​

 

[barney]

(Edit: I read your study. Medically worthless. You could have given them chocolate and got the same results!)

The fact that you read it means I am more than happy to give you a "thumbs up"


My best M8 of the last 40 odd years has almost exactly the same views as you and @Belli do ...... He is imploring me to get vaccinated.

I present him with a lot of similar stuff I do here because I know he will give me his honest opinion

We don't agree on a lot of stuff, but that doesn't stop the discussion of opposing thoughts/ideas etc ....

Healthy disagreement is always better than unreasonable dogma.

ps I may have more curve balls to throw up yet, lol

 

[wayneL]

Why people have mixed feelings about what our leaders are saying on the vaccine

Certainly interesting with Omicron on the rampage

.​

How vaxes are *supposed to work. Highlighting how these aren't actual vaccines

 

[rederob]

How vaxes are *supposed to work. Highlighting how these aren't actual vaccines

Another zero evidence post.
Contrast your idea with thousands of studies proving the opposite.

 

[moXJO]

Daughter just gave a positive result. She's still running around.

Also on the hydrogen peroxide, it's actually a mouthwash and gargle at 3%. Old timers use to use it. You can buy it from the chemists made up at that strength. I used it a while back. Hadn't heard of the nebuliser method.

Take care Mo hope you and sons recover soon, thanks for posting up your progress really helpful for the rest of us, any idea if and when you should think about O2 levels?

So here's the information from nsw state health. Keeping in mind I'm from the "It's ok to die" state.

Any time you feel like breathing is a problem I'd seek immediate advice and don't downplay the symptoms.
You can immediate contact a gp on a positive result and just check in. I think each state has a hotline as well.

Fact sheets - How to manage COVID-19 safely at home

Most people can manage COVID-19 at home, with some simple advice. If you have tested positive for COVID-19 and are pregnant, please call the NSW Health COVID-19 Care at Home Support Line.

www.health.nsw.gov.au

 

[moXJO]

Omicron seems like clockwork.
Everyone whether vaxxed or not have had similar durations, symptoms and intensity. However, you can apparently still catch delta easily after Omicron and briefly saw that you can catch Omicron twice in a month.

My sons were pretty much over it today which is day 4 with only minor symptoms. For me day 4 is tomorrow and my headache has reduced now to a much more tolerable level. In fact at this stage don't need panadol.

Appetite still severely lacking.

Blocked nose and cough maybe once an hour (which gives a headache).

Head slightly stuffy.

Still feel like sht though.

Members of the family are starting to go down now.
All almost exactly on a 3 day incubation (we are talking to the hour in some cases). All felt completely fine and then noticed slight symptoms. Which then rapidly deteriorated into the first day symptoms.

So I'll be looking after a few people tomorrow. It's the unexpected that makes it worse. And one of the reasons I tried to detail it out.

Perfect end to 2021. That year was the worst I've had ever.

 

[barney]

Daughter just gave a positive result. She's still running around.

Also on the hydrogen peroxide, it's actually a mouthwash and gargle at 3%. Old timers use to use it. You can buy it from the chemists made up at that strength. I used it a while back. Hadn't heard of the nebuliser method.

You sound pretty positive @moXJO .... lets hope its all up from here!



ps Discl. Not advice ... just a suggestions below for anyone interested

Re the H2O2 ... as a mouth wash it is apparently recommended at 50-50 with water (that is with HP at 3%) Don't want to irritate the mouth unnecessarily.

As for the Nebulizer ratio ....... You add just 1ml for every 29ml of saline ....... yes that is 29 parts saline to 1 part (3%) hydrogen peroxide

So basically saline with a twist

Dont forget the 1-2 drops of Lugols Iodine .... That is actually the real fire power against viruses.



Ps If you die from that HP moX, I dont want to hear any complaints.

My middle name is Moderna so I have zero liability and you have no rights

 

[barney]

Why people have mixed feelings about what our leaders are saying on the vaccine

Certainly interesting with Omicron on the rampage

​

Hey @DB008 For some reason I can't see the vid .... Maybe my ad blocker is causing that? Possible to insert a "Link"? Cheers.

 

[moXJO]

You sound pretty positive @moXJO .... lets hope its all up from here!



ps Discl. Not advice ... just a suggestions below for anyone interested

Re the H2O2 ... as a mouth wash it is apparently recommended at 50-50 with water (that is with HP at 3%) Don't want to irritate the mouth unnecessarily.

As for the Nebulizer ratio ....... You add just 1ml for every 29ml of saline ....... yes that is 29 parts saline to 1 part (3%) hydrogen peroxide

So basically saline with a twist

Dont forget the 1-2 drops of Lugols Iodine .... That is actually the real fire power against viruses.



Ps If you die from that HP moX, I dont want to hear any complaints.

My middle name is Moderna so I have zero liability and you have no rights


View attachment 134947

They sell it in woolies or Coles at 3% as a mouthwash or gargle as well already made up. I used it to clean out a bad tooth.

 

[barney]

They sell it in woolies or Coles at 3% as a mouthwash or gargle as well already made up. I used it to clean out a bad tooth.

So Woollies and Coles are recommending it a double my conservative ratio

Damn ... I smell a conspiracy theory coming on, lol

I use it in my ears at 3% so I doubt anyone's mouth will be in any danger

Appreciate the updates.

 

[moXJO]

So far the 5yo have a temperature but are still fine. Possible my 77 yo parents have been exposed. So if there are any out of the ordinary symptoms or severity I'll let the forum know. 5yo are obviously unvaccinated. Both parents double dosed.
It takes a lot to put my father down so I'll let you know.

I'll try the Paracetamol and voost energy tab to see if it perks up wife 1.
I just want the most basic easily accessible medication/supplement I can find.

But Barney's talk about mouthwash/gargle has me wondering if it reduces viral load in the throat so you don't spit it round as much.
Unfortunately the data is a little scetchy:

Could certain mouthwashes reduce transmissibility of COVID-19? - Evidence-Based Dentistry

Data sources Six electronic databases were searched including PubMed/Medline, Embase, Web of Science, Scopus, Cochrane, and Latin American and Caribbean Literature in Health Science (LILACS). Grey literature was also examined. There were no restrictions with regards to language, time of...

www.nature.com

COVID-19 and Mouthwash

Mouthwashes are commonly prescribed by dentists to help fight against microbes that cause plaque in the oral cavity.

www.news-medical.net

Here's what I don't get. Why is it that we have pumped $billions into all things covid, yet I'm still scrounging round for studies on treatment/reduction methods. We just get generic and often wrong bs out of the media.

 

[moXJO]

So Woollies and Coles are recommending it a double my conservative ratio

Damn ... I smell a conspiracy theory coming on, lol

I use it in my ears at 3% so I doubt anyone's mouth will be in any danger

Appreciate the updates.

Yeah sorry I think I diluted it.

 

[barney]

Here's what I don't get. Why is it that we have pumped $billions into all things covid, yet I'm still scrounging round for studies on treatment/reduction methods. We just get generic and often wrong bs out of the media.

+100% agree From the start its always felt like fear generation has been the agenda.


Dr Peter McCullough is now considered an anti vaxxer due to his stance on vaccine safety. Untrue of course, although he does not endorse covid "vaccines"

Much of what he and others were being vilified for early on by uneducated journalists posing as science "experts" ie. His early treatment approach/protocols ... Are now being used .

Part of a short video where he talks about nasal spray/mouthwash etc. Good old Iodine again.

ps @moXJO At 1.53am earlier, I hope you are getting some sleep?

 

[DB008]

Are we heading down this path?

Netherlands Announces Plan To Give People Up to Six Doses of COVID Vaccine​

Hugo de Jonge, health minister of The Netherlands, has indicated the country could be preparing another three coronavirus booster vaccines.​

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De Jonge wrote a letter to his country's parliament Wednesday suggesting the Netherlands should consider additional rounds of booster vaccines to fight new variants, with two of these in 2022 and another shot in 2023.​

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The letter also said that the Netherlands has enough booster vaccines for its current booster campaign.​

​

In the letter, De Jonge wrote: "Certainly because only half of a regular vaccine is needed for a booster dose of Moderna, we now have sufficient vaccines for the current booster campaign and there is ample basis for possible extra booster rounds in the second quarter and the autumn of 2022 and in 2023.​

​

The Netherlands has bought vaccine stock in bulk in order to avoid shortages.​

​

The country has ordered nearly 6 million additional vaccines alongside the 12 million already bought from Pfizer/Biontech.​

​

There is already an agreement in place with Pfizer/Biontech for at least another 17.5 million doses before 2023. It is unclear who will be eligible for these booster coronavirus vaccine shots in 2022 and 2023.​

More on link below...

https://www.newsweek.com/netherlands-vaccination-booster-coronavirus-covid-shot-1664296


.​

 

[Belli]

Even the famous (infamous?) doctor gets a mention.

The COVID-19 “Vaccine Holocaust”: The latest antivaccine messaging

The latest antivaccine disinformation consists of pointing to the large numbers of reports of death (and other adverse events) to the VAERS database. It's nonsense.

sciencebasedmedicine.org

And misuse of data by various groups which have an alternative view of Covid treatments.

As 2021 shambles to a close, the misuse of VAERS by antivaxxers continues apace

Misuse of the VAERS database to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt about vaccines has been a favorite technique of antivaxxers for decades. Unfortunately, 2021 was the year when this particular antiv

sciencebasedmedicine.org

 

[rederob]

Much of what he and others were being vilified for early on by uneducated journalists posing as science "experts" ie. His early treatment approach/protocols ... Are now being used .

I doubt McCullough was vilified for saying what was proposed way back in 2020 !
Early studies recognised the role of the nose as an initial site of infection, and these findings reinforced the importance of wearing masks:

"If the nose is the dominant initial site from which lung infections are seeded, then the widespread use of masks to protect the nasal passages, as well as any therapeutic strategies that reduce virus in the nose, such as nasal irrigation or antiviral nasal sprays, could be beneficial," study co-author Dr. Richard Boucher said in a university news release.​

Do everything you can (so long as it's safe) as precautionary measures, and that includes being vaccinated. However, once symptomatic there are treatment protocols in place, so listen to advice from your GP ahead of anything you read from tweets or see on YouTube.