Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[Belli]

Iodine nasal spray, or something similar .... get someone to get you some immediately.

Cant give financial advice on a stock forum but feel free with medical... lol

@barney for your information, carefully read again the article you posted in the light of this:

Randomised controlled trials—the gold standard for effectiveness research - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

and ask yourself the question "Does the article comply as a RCT?"

It does not appear to me to come within a bull's roar of being so and is fundamentally a personal opinion.

Just saying.

 

[rederob]

@barney for your information, carefully read again the article you posted in the light of this:

Randomised controlled trials—the gold standard for effectiveness research - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

and ask yourself the question "Does the article comply as a RCT?"

It does not appear to me to come within a bull's roar of being so and is fundamentally a personal opinion.

Just saying.

Then of course we learn where @barney looks for medical advice:

If you know someone who has a nebuliser, borrow it now ...... A mixture of saline/small amount of hydrogen peroxide (in the correct ratio of course - see Dr Mercola or similar)

The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online​

"Dr. Mercola, 67, an osteopathic physician in Cape Coral, Fla., has long been a subject of criticism and government regulatory actions for his promotion of unproven or unapproved treatments."​

Mercola is now infamous for selling supplements based on dodgy medical evidence.

 

[basilio]

Treating COVID at home in Tasmania. Probably coming to other States soon ?

This man managed his COVID-19 at home. Here's how it went

Most Tasmanians who catch COVID-19 will manage it from their own homes. Simon Boot was one of the first to test out the government's COVID@home "virtual ward" program and was impressed.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Knobby22]

Then of course we learn where @barney looks for medical advice:

The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online​

"Dr. Mercola, 67, an osteopathic physician in Cape Coral, Fla., has long been a subject of criticism and government regulatory actions for his promotion of unproven or unapproved treatments."​

Mercola is now infamous for selling supplements based on dodgy medical evidence.

Making money, living the American dream!

 

[moXJO]

Paracetamol seems to work fine by itself. Enough to minimise the headaches anyway. I don't feel as good as the Paracetamol/hot shower and voost. I'm still getting the occasional brain pain explosion.
But it has stopped it to about one intense headache pain every 5 minutes. Rather than one every 8 seconds.

I think paracetamol loads up the liver and ibuprofen loads up the kidneys (maybe the other way around). So I'll just have to take that into consideration.

The headaches were so bad that I just want to stick with paracetamol at this stage as it seems to work fine. Even though I'm sure the cold and flu tablets are just paracetamol with an added antihistamine that makes you tired and some other thing that unblocks your nose. I only took one tablet as well, so probably under dosed.

Just heard my 5yo daughter has most likely got it. She had a fever last night but was up and running around. Unfortunately she is with a group of about 12 people so they all probably have it. I'll let everyone know how it affects kids. Seems to be a 3-4 day incubation period. So now I need to get better to look after the next lot.

Hopefully my posts have taken some of the fear out of what Omicron actually is. I've definitely had worse flu's. But nothing as annoying as this has been in terms of headaches.

Probably can just stock up on ibuprofen or paracetamol and see what works best . Those voost energy tabs really made a difference to my energy levels. Which was probably just caffeine. But I could function fine off them.

If you are unvaccinated: the people I know that are unvaccinated seemed to get similar symptoms. I'll say this though: There will be a point while you are sick that you will probably regret not having the shot.

I'll post a bit less now unless some weird symptoms come up. I know roughly 50+ people with it now. So be prepared when it hits your state.

 

[DB008]

So be prepared when it hits your state.

Sounds like your on the mend, so about a week in total?

Big numbers coming out of all states today -

NSW 12,226
VIC 5,137
QLD 2,222
SA 1,472 (yesterday)
TAS 92

This is only people getting tested. I'm sure the real numbers are a magnitude higher.

 

[qldfrog]

@barney for your information, carefully read again the article you posted in the light of this:

Randomised controlled trials—the gold standard for effectiveness research - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

and ask yourself the question "Does the article comply as a RCT?"

It does not appear to me to come within a bull's roar of being so and is fundamentally a personal opinion.

Just saying.

What's the risk of cleaning your nose is the actual question..so why not?

 

[moXJO]

Sounds like your on the mend, so about a week in total?

3 days so far, 2.5 if you just want to count the symptom onset.
I think I felt it come on about lunchtime Tuesday.
Still got the headaches, but otherwise not in bad shape today. The literal difference was paracetamol.
There's some "under the surface" stuff I can feel but it's only minor.

Official figures are way off in nsw. The lines take 4-26 hours and not many can be bothered.

 

[barney]

@Belli Your point about RCT's is well taken. In a perfect world I agree, but when time is of the essence, protocols sometimes need to be changed/fast tracked I guess.

@rederob : I referenced Mercola because he gives appropriate ratios of saline/HP There are plenty of other medical people who advocate the practice.

@Knobby22 : As per "Red" above, although, regarding Mercola particularly, no one can blame him for making his living from his knowledge, regardless of whether we do or don't agree with his methods etc.

Discounting that some folk seem to assume all anti vaxxers are misguided/potential loonies for questioning main stream narratives;

Getting back to Nebulising with Saline/HP/Iodine, should we also consider Charles Farr and all the other Doctors who advocate his work are misinformed "anti-vaxxers" as well? That would seem a little unfair.

 

[rederob]

Getting back to Nebulising with Saline/HP/Iodine, should we also consider Charles Farr and all the other Doctors who advocate his work are misinformed "anti-vaxxers" as well? That would seem a little unfair.

You are choosing to believe a proven charlatan in Mercola, and advocating use of treatments which most Australian doctors would laugh at.
As to IV hydrogen peroxide, or nebulising, there is no evidence it's of benefit, but it's proven to have harms.
Would you like snake oil with that?

 

[Belli]

There have been enough snake oil proponents advising on the use of hydrogen peroxide as a cure or preventative for Covid, the Asthma and Allergy Association of America had to issue a warning on its use.

DANGER! Don’t Nebulize Hydrogen Peroxide and Breathe It to Try to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

A concerning and dangerous trend is circulating on social media channels like Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok. People are breathing in hydrogen peroxide through nebulizers to try to prevent or treat COVID-19. DO NOT put hydrogen peroxide into your nebulizer and breathe it in. This is dangerous! It...

community.aafa.org

"Hydrogen peroxide can be used as a cleaner and stain remover, and can cause tissue damage if you swallow it or breathe it in. According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry:

"Hydrogen peroxide can be toxic if ingested, inhaled, or by contact with the skin or eyes. Inhalation of household strength hydrogen peroxide (3%) can cause respiratory irritation. Exposure to household strength hydrogen. peroxide can cause mild ocular irritation. Inhalation of vapors from concentrated (higher than 10%) solutions may result in severe pulmonary irritation."

A nebulizer is a “breathing machine” used to treat asthma. It turns liquid asthma medicine into a mist. You then breathe in the medicine through a mask or mouthpiece.

Only use asthma medicine prescribed by your doctor in your nebulizer. Other chemicals can be harmful to your lungs."

And before you go there if it is diluted to such an extent it is not harmful to humans if ingested, it is too weak to have any effect.

 

[bellenuit]

Phone numbers obviously don't apply in Australia.

Covid: How to look after yourself at home

What can you expect if you have Covid, and when should you get extra help?

www.bbc.com

 

[mullokintyre]

i got into trouble from some folk on ASF when I suggested you should never get between Big pharma and a bucket of money.
It seems that any suggestion that they are not ethical and are not doing all they can to help the world is nothing but conspriacy theory.
Well =, according to that giant conspiracy producer, Wall Street Journal

A high-stakes legal battle is taking shape over lucrative patent rights for Covid-19 vaccines, with drug companies pitted against each other and government and academic scientists over who invented what.

The US government and Moderna, whose collaboration led to one of the most widely used shots, have fought over who discovered a key component and owns its rights. Meantime, Pfizer and BioNTech, makers of another leading vaccine, are in a patent battle with a smaller company, and some analysts think they could end up facing off against Moderna.

At the heart of the disputes: Who can claim to have invented important elements of the Covid-19 vaccines?

Hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake. If anyone succeeds in establishing a role in the discovery of the vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna would have to share with others a bigger cut of the tens of billions of dollars in vaccine sales being generated.

“It’s scientific credit and money. That’s what people want,” said Jacob Sherkow, a professor who specialises in biotechnology intellectual property at the University of Illinois College of Law.

“This is a major biotech invention, for which tens of billions of dollars are riding on the line.”

The emerging patent disputes cast a shadow over what has otherwise been a remarkable scientific, government and business accomplishment: the development of several effective Covid-19 vaccines at unprecedented speed, during a pandemic.

Who deserves credit for medical discoveries has long been a battleground for companies, academia and government. Patents are especially valuable in the pharmaceutical industry because they can give a company the exclusive right to sell a drug or vaccine for many years, free from generic competition.

And from NY Times

Moderna’s patent application names several employees as the sole inventors of a crucial component of its coronavirus vaccine, excluding three government scientists.

Since the above article, Moderna has "paused" its court battle, not dropped it.
From Washington Post

Moderna is pausing a patent dispute with the federal government over its groundbreaking coronavirus vaccine, saying it is “grateful” to government scientists who collaborated with the company and wants to “avoid any distraction” in the fight against the omicron variant.
The decision could have implications for the Biden administration’s global vaccination strategy, as officials look for leverage to share mRNA vaccine discoveries with developing countries in an effort to ramp up worldwide supply.
It is also expected to turn down the heat on the Cambridge, Mass., vaccine maker, which projected as much as $18 billion in sales from its vaccine this year, and has received stinging criticism for doing too little to share its breakthroughs with poorer nations.

Government scientists worked with Moderna in January 2020 to rapidly develop the spike protein technology key to the company’s messenger RNA vaccine.
But Moderna had disputed claims that three scientists from the National Institutes of Health were co-inventors, complicating the government’s ability to license the shot and share it with vaccine makers in low- and middle-income countries, where vaccines are still scarce.
Moderna officials said attention to the patent issue had ballooned and threatened to disrupt the pandemic response.

a gotta love that last line, what bull ****.

“The Company would like to avoid any distraction to the important public-private efforts ongoing to address emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants, including Omicron,” Moderna said in a statement on Friday night shared with The Washington Post. Moderna also said it filed a continuation that will allow it to pursue discussions about the patent at a later date.

So one might ask what concessions will be made by both sides to get this over the line.
Who will get what , who will be shafted, who will be bribed.
Will the SEC step in and charge Moderna over its issuing projections of 18bill in sales when it knew(or should have known), that the feds would not let it escape with the claim that only Moderna scientists were involved in the discovery,
Mick

 

[barney]

You are choosing to believe a proven charlatan in Mercola, and advocating use of treatments which most Australian doctors would laugh at.
As to IV hydrogen peroxide, or nebulising, there is no evidence it's of benefit, but it's proven to have harms.
Would you like snake oil with that?

Red: Mercola is just one of many who would disagree with the report you referenced written by Bruce Y Lee (catchy name). Bruce used to work for John Hopkins which unfortunately may also bring out the conspiracy theorist in me, but I will resist, lol.

Mercola's "ratio" for HP/saline is one of the most conservative of all advocates. Some people have been known to recommend far higher concentrates which even he is cautious about. He also highly suggests "Food Grade HP" should be used. Doesnt sound like the sort of concerns a charlatan would be too concerned about but who knows.

Anyway, after Bruce Lee got through rubbishing the use of HP in a rather condescending tone, and stating just how dangerous it apparently is.

We see that Duke University recommend cleaning face masks with the very same product .... surely not!

And what do we do with face masks .... breathe through them ... doh!

ps Apart from all the whoo har over the use of HP, it is the addition of the 1-2 drops of Iodine which is apparently the most useful ingredient in stopping virus replication, so for anyone concerned about using HP (I use it, no issues ..... no covid so far touch wood), just nebulize saline and Iodine ... assuming thats not going to kill us all as well

 

[rederob]

Red: Mercola is just one of many who would disagree with the report you referenced written by Bruce Y Lee (catchy name). Bruce used to work for John Hopkins which unfortunately may also bring out the conspiracy theorist in me, but I will resist, lol.

Mercola's "ratio" for HP/saline is one of the most conservative of all advocates. Some people have been known to recommend far higher concentrates which even he is cautious about. He also highly suggests "Food Grade HP" should be used. Doesnt sound like the sort of concerns a charlatan would be too concerned about but who knows.

Anyway, after Bruce Lee got through rubbishing the use of HP in a rather condescending tone, and stating just how dangerous it apparently is.

We see that Duke University recommend cleaning face masks with the very same product .... surely not!

And what do we do with face masks .... breathe through them ... doh!
View attachment 134933

ps Apart from all the whoo har over the use of HP, it is the addition of the 1-2 drops of Iodine which is apparently the most useful ingredient in stopping virus replication, so for anyone concerned about using HP (I use it, no issues ..... no covid so far touch wood), just nebulize saline and Iodine ... assuming thats not going to kill us all as well

Your points are the same as Trump's suggestion of using bleach.
Start using reputable sites and you might discover how covid is being treated by clinicians rather than snake oil.

 

[Belli]

Bruce used to work for John Hopkins which unfortunately may also bring out the conspiracy theorist in me, but I will resist, lol.

Good as, for a conspiracy to work, only a very few people can be in on the "secret" and there are way too many people in organisations such as John Hopkins, CDC, Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, MIT, ANU, Uni of Sydney, Melbourne Uni, Monash, Garvan, Doherty, Kirby, Université de Paris and there may be a couple of others I believe, to be able to keep anything secret for very long.

 

[Knobby22]

Red: Mercola is just one of many who would disagree with the report you referenced written by Bruce Y Lee (catchy name). Bruce used to work for John Hopkins which unfortunately may also bring out the conspiracy theorist in me, but I will resist, lol.

Mercola's "ratio" for HP/saline is one of the most conservative of all advocates. Some people have been known to recommend far higher concentrates which even he is cautious about. He also highly suggests "Food Grade HP" should be used. Doesnt sound like the sort of concerns a charlatan would be too concerned about but who knows.

Anyway, after Bruce Lee got through rubbishing the use of HP in a rather condescending tone, and stating just how dangerous it apparently is.

We see that Duke University recommend cleaning face masks with the very same product .... surely not!

And what do we do with face masks .... breathe through them ... doh!
View attachment 134933

ps Apart from all the whoo har over the use of HP, it is the addition of the 1-2 drops of Iodine which is apparently the most useful ingredient in stopping virus replication, so for anyone concerned about using HP (I use it, no issues ..... no covid so far touch wood), just nebulize saline and Iodine ... assuming thats not going to kill us all as well

That's for cleaning of masts, not for breathing in. It would really hurt you.

Still Cleaning CPAP with Hydrogen Peroxide? It’s Time to Reconsider. – CleanCPAP

cleancpap.net

 

[barney]

Now fair go Red ..... My above responses were totally aimed at trying to suggest @moXJO some quick accessible home relief to try and stop the virus getting past his throat into his lungs because is currently suffering with Covid. I'm totally aware of the various hospital treatments but we cant go and buy them at Woollies of course.

Did Trump actually suggest Bleach?? I know they treated him with hydroxychloroquine which kind of made it a political punching ball.

I thought he commented asking whether some kind of disinfectant might work. He meant well

 

[IFocus]

Take care Mo hope you and sons recover soon, thanks for posting up your progress really helpful for the rest of us, any idea if and when you should think about O2 levels?

 

[rederob]

Now fair go Red ..... My above responses were totally aimed at trying to suggest @moXJO some quick accessible home relief to try and stop the virus getting past his throat into his lungs because is currently suffering with Covid. I'm totally aware of the various hospital treatments but we cant go and buy them at Woollies of course.

Did Trump actually suggest Bleach?? I know they treated him with hydroxychloroquine which kind of made it a political punching ball.

I thought he commented asking whether some kind of disinfectant might work. He meant well

Not sure how your treatment suggestions can be credible as no reputable doctors recommend them.
Most people with covid have had it for at least 2 days before becoming symptomatic, and by that stage the things you referenced would be too late to have an impact. That is, the virus is now part of you and your immune system becomes your front line defence.
Good health and nutrition combined with vaccination to bolster your immune system are likely better than the unproven and unrecommended ideas you have posted.
If you personally believe in what you are taking then an equivalent to the placebo effect could work out for you, although this is not usually likely to be curative, as distinct from reducing the effects of symptoms. However, some of the treatments you have referenced have harmful side effects so I am balancing medically inappropriate ideas with a suggestion that ill people visit their doctors for appropriate treatment if their immune systems have not prevented covid symptoms from worsening.

Omicron and double vaxxing to date has proven to have a comparatively low incidence of hospitalisation, and @moXJO's detailed story so far is typical of the many experiences I have read about. In the UK a majority of people over 65 (95% from memory) have also had booster vaccines. We are behind the eight ball here, but I will be lining up in February when it's available at the 4 month point (UK made it available at 3 months).