Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%

  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%

  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • Total voters
    75
Jump to new
mullokintyre said:
There are a number of legal challenges that will need to be resolved around some of the responses to COVID.
The first thing to establish, is that in all cases, wherever there is conflict, a Federal Law will overide a state or territory law.
One of them is the Commonwealth Disability Discriimination Act of 1992.
Click to expand...
There may well be another challenge from some organisations such as the BCA and possibly retail and hospitality industry unions over authorities insistence on proof of vaccine before service.
The issue is whether the the private sector should have to police rules set by authorities. The theory being if the state sets rules, they need to police them.
From ABC News
Soon, NSW will become the first state or territory to begin a new era in which the fully vaccinated are able to go to pubs, cafes and other venues, while the unvaccinated will be stopped at the door.
To access these greater freedoms, members of the public will use digital or paper certificates to show a venue they've had both jabs.

Retail workers, many of them young and working on their own, are likely to be on the frontline of any public hostility to the system.

Retailers have already seen increased violence towards staff when enforcing COVID rules that are sometimes unpopular with customers, and they're now worried the situation will get worse.
Click to expand...
When the Victorian government instituted heavy penalties to licensed premises for serving under age drinkers, the hotel association in particular were up in arms about having to be the state governments police. Fell on deaf ears though.
We started to see some of those premises install security guards on their doors who demanded proof of age. Some even demanded that the planned attendee hand over their drivers license which was then photocopies and kept on file in case of future court actions.
One night after attending a friends wedding, my wife who at the time was in her 50's, was refused entry to a local piano bar because she had not even bought a purse, much less her license.
When we in Tennessee in the USA, similar thing happened , but in this case she was allowed in to the premises, but could not buy any drinks. Its all part of a cunning plan to make me pay all the time.
Mick
 
WOW, this is a serious case of carrot and stick, I wonder how the general public will take it, the us and them is going to a whole new level.
www.abc.net.au

Unvaccinated people to stay in lockdown for months as NSW COVID blueprint revealed

Facemasks will be scrapped indoors from December and unvaccinated people have been warned they face another two months in lockdown under NSW's latest roadmap to COVID normal.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
From the article:
Ms Berejiklian also confirmed the first freedoms — such as pubs, restaurants, gyms and hairdressers reopening for fully vaccinated people — would be available from Monday, October 11, shortly after 70 per cent of people aged over 16 were double-dosed.

However, people who are unvaccinated will remain under the current stay-at-home restrictions until December 1.

When the state reaches the 80 per cent vaccination coverage milestone, unvaccinated people will get only one new freedom: attending places of worship.

A third and final stage of the roadmap will take effect on December 1, when it is expected the state will have reached 90 per cent double-dose vaccination.

On that date, unvaccinated people will be subject to the same rules as those who’ve been vaccinated.
 
Even the 'Fair Work' commission is getting involved, as we've said compulsory vaccinations has to be tested against the laws of the land.
www.abc.net.au

Fair Work ruling on woman fired for refusing flu jab reveals the divide on COVID-19 vaccine mandate

The Fair Work Commission says an aged care facility was justified in firing someone who refused her flu jab — but it has divided commissioners.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
From the article:
A deputy president of the Fair Work Commission (FWC) has railed against mandatory vaccinations in an extraordinary dissenting judgment, labelling such a decree for employees akin to "medical apartheid".
The judgement related to a woman who was sacked from her job as a receptionist at a nursing home on the New South Wales south coast, after she had refused to get a flu shot last year when it was made mandatory by the New South Wales government.
The Sapphire Coast Community Aged Care receptionist, Jennifer Kimber, claimed she had a severe allergic reaction to a flu shot in 2016 and presented a letter from a practitioner of Chinese medicine to her employer to back up her refusal to get the vaccination.

She presented another letter, from a GP in Pambula, also outlining her allergic reaction, and wrote to the chief executive of Sapphire to outline her opposition to getting the shot.

Fair Work Commission vice-president Adam Hatcher and commissioner Bernie Riordan blocked Ms Kimber's application to appeal against her dismissal, finding she "held a broader anti-vaccination position" after she "googled all sorts of stuff" in relation to side effects of vaccines.
The pair said they did not intend "in the circumstances of the current pandemic, to give any encouragement to a spurious objection to a lawful workplace vaccination requirement".
But their colleague, Ms Dean, said she "strenuously disagreed" and described it as a "serious injustice", disputing the suggestion Ms Kimber was an anti-vaxxer.

"All Australians should vigorously oppose the introduction of a system of medical apartheid and segregation in Australia," she wrote in her dissenting judgment.

"It is an abhorrent concept and is morally and ethically wrong and the anthesis [sic] of our democratic way of life and everything we value."
Click to expand...
Ms Dean argued the case about the flu shot should be a warning in the debate about making it compulsory to get the COVID-19 vaccination.
"Blanket rules, such as mandating vaccinations for everyone across a whole profession or industry regardless of the actual risk, fail the tests of proportionality, necessity and reasonableness," she said.

"It is more than the absolute minimum necessary to combat the crisis and cannot be justified on health grounds.

"It is a lazy and fundamentally flawed approach to risk management and should be soundly rejected by courts when challenged."

Ms Dean said Ms Kimber should be reinstated to her role.

Mandatory COVID-19 vaccinations have been ordered for workers in the aged care sector, and there were large protests in Melbourne last week about the Victorian government's decision that construction workers needed to get the shot.
 
What if you have had Covid-19 already?
Do you still need to vaccinate to get 'freedoms' ?

I still advocate for everyone to get the jab, but for people that have had Covid-19, no way. Natural immunity far outweighs the jab (a study in Israel says natural immunity is more effective than Pfizer, by a huge factor - source)
 
Probably one of the best recaps/Q&A about covid l've seen in a while.

Well worth it.

Two bright Doctors talking in plain english

​




.
 
Continuing on my theme about the dangers on relying completely on modelling.
From The Australian
Vaccination is working to reduce the number of people requiring hospitalisation and ICU treatment with Covid-19, and now the pressure on the hospital system looks set to be markedly less than predicted by government-commissioned modelling.
At current lockdown settings in NSW, government modelling predicted there would be 560 people suffering Covid-19 in intensive care units across the state by late October. However, the number of people in ICU has been decreasing over the past week.

There were 244 Covid-19 patients in ICU in NSW on September 21, and on Monday that figure had dropped to 214. There were 1286 people in hospital with Covid-19 in NSW a week ago, and that number now stands at 1155.
If the plateauing in hospitalisations continues or those in hospital continues to decrease, numbers will have peaked well below the predictions contained in modelling commissioned by the NSW government.

Victoria’s hospitalisation rates are also well below modelling estimates. On Monday, Victoria had 8538 active cases and 363 people in hospital with Covid-19, of whom 75 were in ICU, amounting to a 4.25 per cent hospitalisation rate. Accounting for a lag between diagnosis and hospitalisation and using the 5673 active cases seven days earlier, the hospitalisation rate is 6.4 per cent. That’s well below the 10.57 per cent hospitalisation rate seen during Melbourne’s second wave last year.

The differences between the two waves in Melbourne are even more stark when deaths are considered, with 25 deaths during Victoria’s current outbreak so far compared with 161 in the second wave to August 7, 2020.
Click to expand...

But despite the failures of the models to get within a bulls roar of the actual results, the Vic premier says
he believed modelling predicting a 10 per cent hospitalisation rate was “holding up”.

The Andrews government’s road map for reopening, announced just over a week ago was based on Burnet Institute modelling which predicted daily case numbers – now at a seven-day average of 723 – would reach 1400 to -2900 between October 19 and 31, with 2202 deaths expected between July 1 and December 31.

Asked whether Victoria’s trajectory resembled that predicted by the modelling, Mr Andrews said: “I think it’s at the more positive end of the scale.”
Click to expand...
I guess that last line is true if your original modelling had such a wide possibility of results (1400 to 2900 if you will) , you can still get in the ballpark.
It then allows one to pick any value within the range of possibilities and run with it.

Mick
 
sptrawler said:
Just watching the World road race cycle championship, being held in Flanders, Belgium.
There are huge crowds of spectators jammed along the road, no one is wearing a mask.
Click to expand...
Australia's should get a new national flag of a tongue licking a boot. Bastards here love getting suppressed and can't wait to dob in "wrongdoers". Surprised everyone isn't wearing stackhats just in case.
 
How can doctors treat sick COVID patients who refuse to believe the disease is real?

A Michigan doctor said 6 out of 8 patients who questioned his medical advice on COVID-19 have died​

Sarah Al-Arshani
Mon, September 27, 2021, 9:30 AM·3 min read


coronavirus covid patient death hospital chaplain healthcare worker

Chaplain Kristin Michealsen holds the hand of a deceased COVID-19 patient while talking on the phone with the patient's family member at Providence Holy Cross Medical Center in the Mission Hills section of Los Angeles on January 9, 2021. Jae C. Hong/AP Photo
A Michigan pulmonologist recounted interactions with eight patients who were severely suffering from COVID-19 while they ignored the reality of the virus in a Facebook post.

On Friday, Dr. Matthew Trunsky, the director of the palliative care unit at a Beaumont Health network hospital in Troy, Michigan, told The Washington Post six of those eight patients have since died.

In his September 11 Facebook post, Trunsky said some of the patients denied having the virus, requested unproven and unapproved treatments like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine, or even said: "I'd rather die than take the vaccine."

“This is not to mention the anger the people have towards the physicians [and] the nurses who are really doing our best – and who are delivering exceptionally excellent care,” Trunsky wrote. “Of course the answer was to have been vaccinated – but they were not and now they’re angry at the medical community for their failure. Numbers are on the rise. Get your vaccine.”

Trunsky told the Post he estimates 90% of the patients he treats are unvaccinated. He said he and other healthcare workers are burnt out and he is especially saddened by the number of patients who have died from COVID-19 during the span of the pandemic.
www.businessinsider.com.au

A Michigan doctor said 6 out of 8 patients who questioned his medical advice on COVID-19 have died

"The answer was to have been vaccinated — but they were not and now they're angry at the medical community for their failure," Dr. Matthew Trunsky said.
www.businessinsider.com.au www.businessinsider.com.au
 
sptrawler said:
Just watching the World road race cycle championship, being held in Flanders, Belgium.
There are huge crowds of spectators jammed along the road, no one is wearing a mask.
Click to expand...
www.perthnow.com.au

Royal Show SOLD OUT out on huge first day

The Perth Royal Show has officially sold out of tickets on its first day, marking a triumphant return after being forced off the calendar last year due to coronavirus restrictions.
www.perthnow.com.au www.perthnow.com.au

Flanders lol
 
What a classic, the union adopts mandatory vaccinations for the workers and it sounds as though the union officials aren't vaccinated. :rolleyes:
The more things change, the more they stay the same.:whistling:
www.theage.com.au

CFMEU president tests positive, Setka in isolation as COVID hits union office

Construction union staff, including leader John Setka, have been forced into isolation after an outbreak linked to a violent confrontation at the CFMEU’s headquarters.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
 
Robert Gotliebson from The Australian has finally got his wish as the Work place health and safety authority has initiated 58 charges against Victorian Government Authorities over the deaths of 801 people in the first Covid wave in 2020.
It would appear that the elected members of the Government have not been charged, just the health bureaucrats.

Victoria’s workplace safety watchdog has charged the state’s health department with 58 breaches of the Occupational Health and Safety Act in relation to the Andrews government’s initial hotel quarantine program.
Covid infections among security guards in two Victorian quarantine hotels in May and June 2020 led to the the state’s second wave of coronavirus, killing 801 people including 642 in aged care facilities, causing more than 18,000 to become infected, and resulting in a three-and-a-half month lockdown.

WorkSafe confirmed the charges, each of which is punishable with a fine of up to $1.64 million, early on Wednesday afternoon.

“The Department of Health, formerly the Department of Health and Human Services, has been charged with 17 breaches of Section 21(1) of the OHS Act, in that it failed to provide and maintain, as far as reasonably practicable, a working environment that was safe and without risks to health for its employees,” WorkSafe said in a statement.

“The department has been charged with a further 41 breaches of section 23 (1) of the OHS Act, in that it failed to ensure, so far as was reasonably practicable, that persons other than employees were not exposed to risks to their health and safety arising from conduct of its undertaking.”
“WorkSafe alleges that the Department of Health breached OHS laws by failing to appoint people with infection prevention and control (IPC) expertise to be stationed at hotels it was utilising for the program,” the agency said.

“It alleges the department failed to provide security guards with face-to-face infection prevention control training by a person with expertise in IPC prior to them commencing work, and either failed, or initially failed, to provide written instruction for the use of PPE.

“WorkSafe further alleges the department failed to update written instructions relating to the wearing of masks at several of the hotels.

“In all charges, WorkSafe alleges that Department of Health employees, Victorian Government Authorised Officers on secondment, or security guards were put at risk of serious illness or death through contracting COVID-19 from an infected returned traveller, another person working in the hotels or from a contaminated surface.”
Click to expand...
Will be interesting to see how this one pans out.
Mick
 
Much has been written and said about Ivermectin on this site, and in many newspapers and other media outlets.
It became de rigueur to refer to it as horse medicine, and in some cases dangerous to be taken.
Notwithstanding that, Ivermectin has been taken orally by children in Australia believe it or not.
From Pub Med

Abstract​

Purpose: Published literature describing the use of oral ivermectin for the treatment of head lice infestation is reviewed.
Summary: In the United States and globally, head lice infestation, or pediculosis capitis, remains a public health issue with both social and medical implications. Treatment with oral or topical medications is typically required for head lice eradication. Resistance to traditional topical therapies for head lice infestation is increasing, creating a need for consideration of additional treatment options. A growing body of data describing the potential role of oral ivermectin for the treatment or prevention of head lice infestation is available. A literature search identified 5 clinical trials that evaluated safety and/or effectiveness outcomes of oral ivermectin use as an alternative to malathion, other topical prescription medications, and traditional, nonprescription remedies; those studies were conducted in various parts of the world (e.g., Australia, Brazil, Mexico, Egypt) and likely involved varying types and degrees of lice resistance. Clinical research findings to date, while not consistently robust, suggest that oral ivermectin is comparable or superior in effectiveness to other topical treatment options for head lice infestation while being well tolerated and favorably perceived by patients and caretakers.

Conclusion: Oral ivermectin is an option for the treatment of head lice infestation, especially in individuals who have experienced a treatment failure. Published evidence from clinical trials indicates that oral ivermectin is as effective as currently available topical treatments.
Click to expand...
The article goes further to cite a paper where Ivermectin was used as a scabies control.
Head lice is still prevalent in OZ, though scabies is something we rarely see.
I asked my wife the pharmacist about it and she said that had occasionally filled ivermectin scripts for children, but it was only in tropical climates (FNQ, Vanuatu and Fiji), and did not recall ever filling an ivermectin script in colder climes.
The TGA is quite specific on what it can be used to treat (lice and scabies, nothing else)..
Mick
 
sptrawler said:
What a classic, the union adopts mandatory vaccinations for the workers and it sounds as though the union officials aren't vaccinated. :rolleyes:
The more things change, the more they stay the same.:whistling:
www.theage.com.au

CFMEU president tests positive, Setka in isolation as COVID hits union office

Construction union staff, including leader John Setka, have been forced into isolation after an outbreak linked to a violent confrontation at the CFMEU’s headquarters.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
Click to expand...
Where is the bit about being unvaccinated?
 
Top