Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

[wayneL]

There is a bit of nuance here Wayne. My response to DB was with regard to how the anti-vaxxer movement was started and built a very big presence from 1994-5 onwards. There were a few consequences

1) A community developed that undermined public confidence in vaccination to the point that vaccination rates for children against mumps. measles ect fell substantially. So clearly the messaging and effectiveness of this core was there.

2) When COVID came and then the relatively rapid development of vaccines there was now an active, articulate community that was determined to undermine the COVID vaccines. I suggest this has been a major factor in poisoning the well.

So the messaging against the COVID vaccines didn't start from zero. What has also occurred has been a deepening rejection of "medical authorities" as legitimate information sources and an acceptance of a range of alternatives as just as good if not better. Those alternatives have ranged from believing in God, accepting MMS treatment (Miracle Mineral solutions bleach) as cures, promoting natural immunity - no need for vaccines, undermining the risks of COVID.

And on top of that there are conspiracy theories around George Soros, 5G, Q Anon, vaccines have secret trackers. A number of these have been highlighted on ASF.

In the end they come down to a diverse chorus of people undermining vaccines as a critical part of protecting our community against a dangerous disease.

I'm not disputing any of that about the true anti vaxxers. What I'm concerned about is the lumping together as anti vaxxers people who have some concerns about the covid vax and hence are waiting for further information, or based on current data don't see it as a good risk reward proposition.

The language being used is only serving to divide our society over a medical procedure which does not have any long-term data available.

And that my friend is entirely toxic and unscientific.

 

[basilio]

The language being used is only serving to divide our society over a medical procedure which does not have any long-term data available.

Indeed it doesn't have "long term data". There is a risk. But what we do know is that COVID is a dangerous disease which left unchecked will/does cause widespread death and illness.

It is the balance of risks that drives the need to vaccinate now.

 

[sptrawler]

The NSW vaccine uptake is still going strong.

 

[basilio]

Albertas Health care system is facing collapse as rapidly rising COVID cases from unvaccinated people is overtaking hospital beds. They currently have 71% of people totally vaccinated which is the lowest in Canada.

Opinion: Alberta's health-care system a month away from failure

Alberta, we are in a COVID crisis that is likely to overwhelm our hospitals and ICUs by the beginning of October. We are very close to requiring triage to determine…

edmontonjournal.com

Canada: Alberta healthcare system on verge of collapse as Covid cases and anti-vax sentiments rise

A province that has long boasted of its loose coronavirus restrictions has also been the site of North America’s highest caseloads

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

Trends in Australia's COVID infection

Experts plead for major vaccine change

Medical experts have urged for a shift in the focus of the vaccine rollout after a concerning trend has emerged across Australian hospitals.

www.news.com.au

Using data on the vaccination status of nearly 700 Covid-19-positive people admitted to intensive care wards in Australia, SPRINT-SARI revealed that the vaccine was extremely effective at preventing serious illness from Covid-19.

Of the 574 people with Covid-19 who were admitted to intensive care with a known vaccination status, more than 85 per cent were unvaccinated against the virus.

Meanwhile, just 12 per cent of those admitted to the ICU had received one dose of the vaccine, and only 2 per cent had received both doses.

“These figures again underscore just how much protection vaccinations offer in terms of your likelihood of getting seriously unwell with Covid-19,” Professor Cheng said.

 

[mullokintyre]

Trends in Australia's COVID infection

Experts plead for major vaccine change

Medical experts have urged for a shift in the focus of the vaccine rollout after a concerning trend has emerged across Australian hospitals.

www.news.com.au

Using data on the vaccination status of nearly 700 Covid-19-positive people admitted to intensive care wards in Australia, SPRINT-SARI revealed that the vaccine was extremely effective at preventing serious illness from Covid-19.

Of the 574 people with Covid-19 who were admitted to intensive care with a known vaccination status, more than 85 per cent were unvaccinated against the virus.

Meanwhile, just 12 per cent of those admitted to the ICU had received one dose of the vaccine, and only 2 per cent had received both doses.

“These figures again underscore just how much protection vaccinations offer in terms of your likelihood of getting seriously unwell with Covid-19,” Professor Cheng said.

Thats what i like.
Real world data. So much better than models.
The problem is that sometimes we pick and choose which datasets we accept.
Mick

 

[wayneL]

Check this out. This was filmed in 2014 and everything has played out largely like he said... Basically "they" told us they were going to do this.

We've all been played for schmucks.

 

[basilio]

Check this out. This was filmed in 2014 and everything has played out largely like he said... Basically "they" told us they were going to do this.

We've all been played for schmucks.

There you are. Another one of Waynes careful, sober sources of information....

 

[mullokintyre]

So, anyone still thinks that there is not a class divide in australia needs only look at a couple of recent events.
From ABC NEWS

Canterbury Bankstown Mayor Khal Asfour raised a perceived double standard in restrictions and policing on a Q+A episode which tackled the cracks appearing between Western Sydney and the rest of the city.

He highlighted the case of people who were arrested for attending an outdoor funeral, admittedly in breach of the 10-person limit, compared to those who were seen visiting beaches at the weekend.

"We saw the pictures of Bondi and Coogee and the eastern suburbs beaches, and I don't begrudge anyone that lives close to the beach to be able to go there, but when we're stuck at home and didn't have any hours of recreation, it makes my community angry, frustrated," Mr Asfour said.

LIVE UPDATES: Read our blog for the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic.
"People [at the beach] weren't wearing masks, weren't social distancing. Yet, when someone in my community attends a funeral, wearing a mask, social distancing, they get arrested and taken by police.

"They were both [breaching] the health order. One gets arrested when they're grieving. The other gets to sunbake. It doesn't make any sense."

Secondly, from The Age

The state government has defended its decision to authorise the total shutdown of Melbourne’s CBD amid criticism that the tactic, designed to stymie a planned anti-lockdown protest, is excessive.

Premier Daniel Andrews on Thursday stood by the decision to halt public transport into the city for six hours between 8am to 2pm on Saturday, a move which was asked for by Victoria Police

In the meantime this morning, obviously no police present when the CFMEU organised a protest against the Vic Govs imposition of banning smoko from tea rooms.
News .com au

Melbourne’s tradies have taken to the streets in a bizarre way on Friday morning to protest against the closure of tea rooms on construction sites.
Premier Daniel Andrews revealed tea rooms on worksites needed to be closed due to the increasing risk of Covid-19 transmission within the construction industry.

On Friday, workers took their smoko and lunch break to the street to protest against the new rule.

Workers set up an outdoor break room at the intersection of A’Beckett and Elizabeth streets in Melbourne’s CBD, blocking cars and holding up traffic.

Maybe the police are scared of the CFMEU .
Animal farm is alive and well.
Mick

 

[wayneL]

There you are. Another one of Waynes careful, sober sources of information....

Well go ahead and debunk it if you can

 

[basilio]

With regard to curfews, escape and The Sounds of Sirens.

 

[wayneL]

Well go ahead and debunk it if you can

I'm waiting @basilio

The investigative journalist cites a document from the Rockefeller Foundation (inter alia) which details probably at least 80% of the scenario that we find ourselves under.

I find that "interesting" at least, especially with all the other interesting information that is out there in the open from the likes of Davos etc.

When these extra-governmental organisations actually have printed and or videographic documents are out there in plain sight, don't you think we should at least consider them in a body of evidence?

A clever jingle isn't going to cut it, my friend. Let's see you stump up with some fair dinkum evidence to the contrary.

 

[basilio]

This is what is happening in the real world. Check it out and consider carefully when people try to say COVID is not that serious, that real, that significant.

Don’t believe the Covid coping spin, those on the road know the health system is in meltdown​

A paramedic


I’m a paramedic in south-west Sydney. I don’t recognise hospitals any more – it all feels very apocalyptic

‘The biggest problem for ambulances at the moment is workload,’ says one south-west Sydney paramedic, who believes the Covid outbreak has overwhelmed the health system. Photograph: Bianca de Marchi/AAP
Fri 17 Sep 2021 02.12 BST
Last modified on Fri 17 Sep 2021 04.59 BST
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...now-the-health-system-is-in-meltdown#comments
143
Regardless of who they get to speak at the sanitised press conferences, no one has come close to describing the strain the healthcare system is feeling. It’s buckling.

Every day I come to work as a paramedic in south-west Sydney, things have ramped up. They are retrofitting sections within the hospital to deal with the overflow of Covid patients. I don’t recognise the hospitals any more, it all feels very apocalyptic.

The reports suggest children don’t get too sick with Covid which is true, but the downside is their parents do, which sometimes leaves us in a tricky spot.

The other night I had a single parent with two kids under 10. They were all Covid-positive and the mum was very unwell, very short of breath. I could not convince her to come to hospital as she didn’t want to be separated from her kids (we would have had to take them to the children’s hospital separately).

I had to coach her eight-year-old daughter how to recognise respiratory distress and told her to sleep in her mum’s bed. She said she knew how to call 000 and she knew her address, but putting that burden on an eight-year-old was heartbreaking.

Don’t believe the Covid coping spin, those on the road know the health system is in meltdown | A paramedic

I’m a paramedic in south-west Sydney. I don’t recognise hospitals any more – it all feels very apocalyptic

www.theguardian.com

 

[wayneL]

This is what is happening in the real world. Check it out and consider carefully when people try to say COVID is not that serious, that real, that significant.

Don’t believe the Covid coping spin, those on the road know the health system is in meltdown​

A paramedic


I’m a paramedic in south-west Sydney. I don’t recognise hospitals any more – it all feels very apocalyptic
View attachment 130391
‘The biggest problem for ambulances at the moment is workload,’ says one south-west Sydney paramedic, who believes the Covid outbreak has overwhelmed the health system. Photograph: Bianca de Marchi/AAP
Fri 17 Sep 2021 02.12 BST
Last modified on Fri 17 Sep 2021 04.59 BST
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...now-the-health-system-is-in-meltdown#comments
143
Regardless of who they get to speak at the sanitised press conferences, no one has come close to describing the strain the healthcare system is feeling. It’s buckling.

Every day I come to work as a paramedic in south-west Sydney, things have ramped up. They are retrofitting sections within the hospital to deal with the overflow of Covid patients. I don’t recognise the hospitals any more, it all feels very apocalyptic.

The reports suggest children don’t get too sick with Covid which is true, but the downside is their parents do, which sometimes leaves us in a tricky spot.

The other night I had a single parent with two kids under 10. They were all Covid-positive and the mum was very unwell, very short of breath. I could not convince her to come to hospital as she didn’t want to be separated from her kids (we would have had to take them to the children’s hospital separately).

I had to coach her eight-year-old daughter how to recognise respiratory distress and told her to sleep in her mum’s bed. She said she knew how to call 000 and she knew her address, but putting that burden on an eight-year-old was heartbreaking.

Don’t believe the Covid coping spin, those on the road know the health system is in meltdown | A paramedic

I’m a paramedic in south-west Sydney. I don’t recognise hospitals any more – it all feels very apocalyptic

www.theguardian.com

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PS still waiting @basilio

 

[basilio]

Tiger, Lion , Donkey.

 

[wayneL]

Tiger, Lion , Donkey.

Waiting, waiting.............

 

[sptrawler]

Waiting, waiting.............

I'm still to be convinced, why people who don't want to travel need to be vaccinated, other than wanting to make those who are vaccinated feel better about it.

 

[wayneL]

I'm still to be convinced, why people who don't want to travel need to be vaccinated, other than wanting to make those who are vaccinated feel better about it.

I seem to have exposed with our friend @basilio, it is more about the narrative then the facts of the matter.

To what end, becomes the pertinent question.

Once all the bulshit is stripped away from this, the few conclusions one can arrive at, become very interesting indeed.

 

[IFocus]

I'm still to be convinced, why people who don't want to travel need to be vaccinated, other than wanting to make those who are vaccinated feel better about it.

Hospitalisation rates, then in the hospitals you get carry over infections to cancer patient's, autoimmune patients etc.

If your ICUs are full of COVID patients where do all the usual ICU patients go?

 

[sptrawler]

Hospitalisation rates, then in the hospitals you get carry over infections to cancer patient's, autoimmune patients etc.

If your ICUs are full of COVID patients where do all the usual ICU patients go?

Vaccination rates are heading well over 80%, why keep on hammering those that chose not to vaccinate, when do you say "ok it's your choice"?
My wife and I have had the first shot, about 8 weeks ago, the wife for the last six weeks has had a really bad chest flemy cough and has just started antibiotics on Tuesday.
We actually drove up to Rockingham on Thursday to the covid clinic so she could be tested, it came back clear.
Now it just might be coincidence, but we've been together 47 years, she is as fit as hell and has never had a flu like this.
Coincidence? I don't think so, I haven't caught it off her, I've had no issues, yet we're together 24/7 and really don't socialise at all other than with the daughter and two grandkids. They haven't caught it off the wife either.