Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

We have said on many occasions that the truth eventually has a way of coming out, well I think the next 6 months will be really interesting.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57352992

sptrawler said:

The States have driven the Agenda, because indeed they are in control of much of the agenda,

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How many times do we need to point out that quarantine is a federal responsibility.
Also, the stuff up with vaccine rollouts is a federal issue.
The stuff up with aged care is a also federal issue.
The States have implemented QR codes because the feds still think the covid safe app is a goer! This was the app that was going to help open up business.
Luckily the States have regularly told the feds where to get off.

sptrawler said:

You post what supports your beliefs, as does everyone else, it is just you don't acknowledge anyone else's point unless it coincides with yours

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I seldom do that. I post credible data, science and other verifiable information. And I challenge the crap that gets posted from time to time, which many don't like as they then have to try and defend it.

rederob said:

How many times do we need to point out that quarantine is a federal responsibility.
Also, the stuff up with vaccine rollouts is a federal issue.
The stuff up with aged care is a also federal issue.
The States have implemented QR codes because the feds still think the covid safe app is a goer! This was the app that was going to help open up business.
Luckily the States have regularly told the feds where to get off.

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Only when it suits them.
Bush fires are a State responsibility, until the P.M is away when a major one breaks out in NSW, then it is the P.M's fault.
Then 12 months later when W.A has catastrophic bushfires, no one gives a $hit where the P.M is, as per usual media and vested interest hype. ?

When it comes to vaccine roll out, a dose of here it comes again in Victoria, is sorting it out the stuff up, without Morrison doing anything.
Because most of the problem was, most didn't want it, but hey when that doesn't fit the narrative, why explain it.

Apparently 1,000,000 given in the last 9 days. ??

rederob said:

I seldom do that. I post credible data, science and other verifiable information. And I challenge the crap that gets posted from time to time, which many don't like as they then have to try and defend it.

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Seldom doesn't hold up in Court, you do it, saying you do it less than others is subjective. ?

What our debate started over, was you accusing me of blaming the media for false information.
I then posted up a poorly written media article that criticised China, you then have spent the last several days explaining to me that the media article was false information, which actually confirms what I have been saying from the start. ?

sptrawler said:

Because most of the problem was, most didn't want it, but hey when that doesn't fit the narrative, why explain it.

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Because we we told the government wanted to be sure we had a safe vaccine so were not in a race, but we got AZ which has a quantifiable death rate, aside from a quantifiable rate of severe side effects.

sptrawler said:

What our debate started over, was you accusing me of blaming the media for false information.

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Again, untrue!
I showed by way of example that your link was crap.
You kept claiming it was worth reading, and I suggested it needed to be accurate if it was worth reading.
We are going around in circles because you are reading into my posts things which are not there.
Also, the regurgitation of the lab leak idea by the media is scientifically less valid now than when it was proposed a year ago. However, it's being raked over, and over, and over, with the hope that throwing enough mud makes it credible.
Far more credible than the lab leak idea were reports of European athletes who participated in the Military World Games held in Wuhan in October. Meanwhile there remain question marks about what really happened at Fort Detrick which has a history of coronavirus research, and was closed for a period in 2019.
None of those ideas are, however, as likely as known history of coronaviruses to mutate naturally and become infectious to humans.
The blame game on origins is rather pathetic imho.
The real game is how best to respond.

sptrawler said:

WHICH is what I say about most journalism these days most is crap, and YOU keep telling me not to blame the media, they printed the 'story' I said it was worth a read.
If it was bagging Morrison, you would be applauding.?
KEEP YOUR HAIR ON MATE. ? ? ? ? ?
Just because it was criticising China it upsets you, when it criticises Australia, it upsets us.

As you would say, don't blame the media, for a poorly run Country. ?

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rederob said:

Because we we told the government wanted to be sure we had a safe vaccine so were not in a race, but we got AZ which has a quantifiable death rate, aside from a quantifiable rate of severe side effects.

Again, untrue!
I showed by way of example that your link was crap.
You kept claiming it was worth reading, and I suggested it needed to be accurate if it was worth reading.
We are going around in circles because you are reading into my posts things which are not there.
Also, the regurgitation of the lab leak idea by the media is scientifically less valid now than when it was proposed a year ago. However, it's being raked over, and over, and over, with the hope that throwing enough mud makes it credible.
Far more credible than the lab leak idea were reports of European athletes who participated in the Military World Games held in Wuhan in October. Meanwhile there remain question marks about what really happened at Fort Detrick which has a history of coronavirus research, and was closed for a period in 2019.
None of those ideas are, however, as likely as known history of coronaviruses to mutate naturally and become infectious to humans.
The blame game on origins is rather pathetic imho.
The real game is how best to respond.

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You really do need to get a grip.
You constantly criticise posters, who say the media is posting crap articles and tell them not to blame the media when the media is supporting your beliefs.
When I posted up a media article, that disagreed with your beliefs, you take the stance that the article is crap.
Your full of it Rob. ?

My post #3,327, that is nearly 20 posts ago, you need to realise you aren't always right, but hey maybe you are paid to just keep churning it out?

sptrawler said:

WHICH is what I say about most journalism these days most is crap, and YOU keep telling me not to blame the media, they printed the 'story' I said it was worth a read.
If it was bagging Morrison, you would be applauding.?
KEEP YOUR HAIR ON MATE. ? ? ? ? ?
Just because it was criticising China it upsets you, when it criticises Australia, it upsets us.

As you would say, don't blame the media, for a poorly run Country. ?

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rederob said:

Also, the regurgitation of the lab leak idea by the media is scientifically less valid now than when it was proposed a year ago. However, it's being raked over, and over, and over, with the hope that throwing enough mud makes it credible.
Far more credible than the lab leak idea were reports of European athletes who participated in the Military World Games held in Wuhan in October. Meanwhile there remain question marks about what really happened at Fort Detrick which has a history of coronavirus research, and was closed for a period in 2019.
None of those ideas are, however, as likely as known history of coronaviruses to mutate naturally and become infectious to humans.
The blame game on origins is rather pathetic imho.
The real game is how best to respond.

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With regard the Lab leak, apparently of most concern is, there has been no trace of any animal infection.
So if no host animal can be found it does bring up questions.
Also you must have been thrilled that Morrison managed to get 1,000,000 vaccinated in 9 days, he must have been flat out. ?

rederob said:

Because we we told the government wanted to be sure we had a safe vaccine so were not in a race, but we got AZ which has a quantifiable death rate, aside from a quantifiable rate of severe side effects.

Again, untrue!
I showed by way of example that your link was crap.
You kept claiming it was worth reading, and I suggested it needed to be accurate if it was worth reading.
We are going around in circles because you are reading into my posts things which are not there.
Also, the regurgitation of the lab leak idea by the media is scientifically less valid now than when it was proposed a year ago. However, it's being raked over, and over, and over, with the hope that throwing enough mud makes it credible.
Far more credible than the lab leak idea were reports of European athletes who participated in the Military World Games held in Wuhan in October. Meanwhile there remain question marks about what really happened at Fort Detrick which has a history of coronavirus research, and was closed for a period in 2019.
None of those ideas are, however, as likely as known history of coronaviruses to mutate naturally and become infectious to humans.
The blame game on origins is rather pathetic imho.
The real game is how best to respond.

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The lab leak is just as legit as your theories. It happened before with sars. History repeats.

sptrawler said:

You constantly criticise posters, who say the media is posting crap articles and tell them not to blame the media when the media is supporting your beliefs.

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Simply false in your case, but there are a few other posters here that have regularly used media sources that are barely credible.
But let's go around in your circle of deceit.
I showed your link was false and misleading and suggested it would be worth reading if it was accurate, which clearly it was not.
At no time did I post a "belief".
Nor did I use other media links in response to your link: I used data.
When I use media links it's usually to emphasise a point I have made because it contains information I have relied on.
I don't know much and I don't believe much.
But I can usually work out when posted information is flawed.
On the other hand you keep wanting to make this personal rather than about what is being posted.

I also look at the logic of what is posted, such as below:

sptrawler said:

With regard the Lab leak, apparently of most concern is, there has been no trace of any animal infection.
So if no host animal can be found it does bring up questions.

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On the basis of your point every laboratory in the world is now implicated.
Conspiracy theorists could meaningfully declare it was developed in Australia and planted in China to get back at them. It's credible because Australia was - somehow??? - the first country outside of China to grow the virus in a lab.
So little wonder China keeps raising Fort Detrick when US vs China the blame game is running.
Scientifically speaking the point is meaningless. SARS-CoV-2 is consistent with a long lineage of known coronaviruses that mostly have a bat origin but an unknown intermediate species. MERS and SARS-CoV-1 fall into this category despite well over a decade of research.
Logically speaking, if no intermediate species is found it is quite possible it died of the disease or even died naturally and only ever spread its contagion to a human.
Practically speaking, the WIV never conducted research on bats that were genomically close enough to SARS-CoV-2, making the lab leak claim baseless or "extremely unlikely" as the world's best investigators concluded:

moXJO said:

The lab leak is just as legit as your theories. It happened before with sars. History repeats.

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I don't have a theory.

rederob said:

I don't have a theory.

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Sorry. Official word from ccp

A Victorian woman travelled through NSW to Caloundra. She has now tested positive for COVID and she has visited a heap of places along the way.

Not good for NSW or Queensland and certainly ugly for her...

basilio said:

A Victorian woman travelled through NSW to Caloundra. She has now tested positive for COVID and she has visited a heap of places along the way.

Not good for NSW or Queensland and certainly ugly for her...

Swathe of COVID-19 alerts for NSW after infected Victorian travels through state

NSW Health authorities say a positive COVID-19 case from Victoria visited several regional locations while potentially infectious and heading towards Queensland last week.

www.abc.net.au

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I thought I read a woman left Victoria four days after the lockdown, if so she may be in a bit of trouble.

sptrawler said:

I thought I read a woman left Victoria four days after the lockdown, if so she may be in a bit of trouble.

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Maybe not as much trouble as where she visited. Here's her NSW travel details:

And then Qld:

("contract tracing???)

Interesting article on one of the first cruise ship to start up again in the Caribbean.

There is still a degree of reluctance to get the vaccine, it isn't a very large poll, but does show there is still community concerns.
From the article:
The Resolve Political Monitor, conducted for The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age by research company Resolve Strategic, finds majority support for vaccination but highlights the obstacles in signing up the last quarter of adults.

“Encouragingly, over the last month we see a significant jump in the number of adult Australians taking up their first vaccine jab and a flow through to new registrations to do so,” said Resolve director Jim Reed.
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“However, we still see 26 per cent of Australians are hesitant to get vaccinated, down from 29 per cent last month, so this has not been greatly shifted by the Victorian outbreak.”
The Resolve Political Monitor showed last month that older Australians and women were more hesitant than men to sign up for the vaccine according to responses from people who had not already had a vaccine or registered for one.
The latest results have a margin of error of 2.5 per cent and come from questions asked of 1600 voters online from June 8 to 12.

This article was earlier behind the NWT paywall, but Yahoo has now lifted it.
While in science most things are possible, some are extremely unlikely.
When the WHO team investigating covid origins came to that conclusion you would have thought that attention afterwards might have focussed on more plausible scenarios.
For example, a US NIH study concluded:
"The results expand on findings from a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study that suggested SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was present in the U.S. as far back as December 2019."

Politicising science is not a good idea, as has been evident over recent decades regarding climate. While ongoing investigation will occur, the real issue is how to better respond when the next pandemic occurs.
I found it interesting that the findings of The Independent Panel appointed by the World Health Organisation (to ensure that any future infectious disease outbreak does not become another catastrophic pandemic) appear to have been systematically scrubbed from their website, and that several video sessions regarding those findings and involving WHO participants have disappeared. Looks like nobody likes to be told they could have done a lot better!

Obviously the amount of defamation cases going on, is starting to get some traction, it wasn't long ago comments like this were allowed to unchallenged. It is good to see fake news, is starting to held to account.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/not-a-doc...aim-about-chief-health-officer-022403742.html
From the article:
Two guests on ABC's Q&A have apologised after public backlash followed their remarks saying Victoria's Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton is not a doctor.
On last night's episode guest host David Speers posed a question which was sent in about the Covid-19 outbreaks in Victoria.
"When is someone going to ask the state government in Victoria why they can't handle the outbreaks like NSW?" Speers asked, quoting a viewer's question.

"The Victorian government has been asked that. Tom, what's the answer?"
3AW Drive Host Tom Elliott began answering the question, saying he knows doctors who think Prof Sutton has "got it completely wrong".

Then two of the other guests, Hana Assafiri and Susan Alberti, both interjected to say Prof Sutton is not a doctor.

Two guests on ABC's Q&A have apologised after public backlash followed their remarks saying Victoria's Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton is not a doctor.
On last night's episode guest host David Speers posed a question which was sent in about the Covid-19 outbreaks in Victoria.
"When is someone going to ask the state government in Victoria why they can't handle the outbreaks like NSW?" Speers asked, quoting a viewer's question.

"The Victorian government has been asked that. Tom, what's the answer?"

On Thursday’s episode of Q&A, two guests on the show asserted Professor Brett Sutton was 'not a doctor'. Source: ABC
3AW Drive Host Tom Elliott began answering the question, saying he knows doctors who think Prof Sutton has "got it completely wrong".

Then two of the other guests, Hana Assafiri and Susan Alberti, both interjected to say Prof Sutton is not a doctor.

Viewers were taken aback by the suggestion Prof Sutton is not a doctor. Victoria's Chief Health Officer is a doctor and he has an extensive resume detailing his work in the medical field both in Australia and overseas.
"Professor Sutton has extensive experience and clinical expertise in public health and communicable diseases, gained through emergency medicine and field-based international work, including in Afghanistan and Timor-Leste," it says on the Victorian Government's website.
"That defamatory lie about Brett Sutton should have been immediately refuted and the person alleging it made to apologise," someone tweeted.
"You said Professor Brett Sutton is not a Dr, yet he holds an MBBS, a Master of Public Health, and is a professor," another said.
Since the backlash, both Ms Assafiri and Ms Alberti have apologised on social media and clarified what they meant.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/na...-to-address-bed-capacity-20210619-p582fj.html
Option 1: we are so sheer incompetent that 1.5 y after what people tell us is the pandemic of the century, we are unable to handle a much reduced normal flu season
option 2: one variant of covid is planned to spread it would kind of make sense as covid likes winter
Option3: you tell me..?
In either option 1 or 2, this is pathetic

Some longer term health issues are being examined, from covid patients.
From the article:
Dr. Scott Gottlieb warned Thursday about the potential for long-term brain loss associated with Covid, citing a new study from the United Kingdom.

“In short, the study suggests that there could be some long-term loss of brain tissue from Covid, and that would have some long-term consequences,” the former FDA chief and CNBC contributor said.

“You could compensate for that over time, so the symptoms of that may go away, but you’re never going to regain the tissue if, in fact, it’s being destroyed as a result of the virus,” said Gottlieb, who serves on the board of Covid vaccine-maker Pfizer.
The U.K. study examined brain imaging before and after a coronavirus infection and looked specifically at the potential effect on the nervous system.

Gottlieb explained to CNBC’s “The News with Shepard Smith” that the destruction of brain tissue could explain why Covid patients lost their sense of smell.
“The diminishment in the amount of cortical tissue happened to be in regions of the brain that are close to the places that are responsible for smell,” he said. “What it suggests is that, the smell, the loss of smell, is just an effect of a more primary process that’s underway, and that process is actually shrinking of cortical tissue.”

As we speculated early on it is more a flu shot than a vaccine, so boosters will most likely be required annually.
From the article:
LONDON — England’s top medical officer has warned that the coming winter will continue to be difficult for the country’s health system despite the country’s successful coronavirus vaccination program.

A further easing of lockdown restrictions in England was delayed this week due to a surge in cases of the delta variant first discovered in India.

In a speech to the NHS Confederation Thursday, Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty said the current wave of Covid infections due to the delta variant would likely be followed by another surge in the winter.

He said that Covid-19 “has not thrown its last surprise at us and there will be several more [variants] over the next period,” according to Sky News. He added that it would likely take five years before there are vaccines that could “hold the line” to a very large degree against a range of coronavirus variants.
And until then, he said that new vaccination programs and booster shots would be needed.

In the U.K., where the delta variant is now responsible for the bulk of new infections, cases have spiked among young people and the unvaccinated, leading to a rise in hospitalizations in those cohorts.
It’s hoped that Covid-19 vaccination programs can stop the spread of the delta variant and so the race is on to protect younger people who might not be fully vaccinated.

Analysis from Public Health England released on Monday showed that two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines are highly effective against hospitalization from the delta variant.

But some vaccines are reported to be less effective against other strains. For example, British Health Secretary Matt Hancock said earlier this month that it has started commercial negotiations with AstraZeneca to secure a variant vaccine — which has been adapted to tackle the variant first discovered in South Africa.

Meanwhile, trials of booster shots are already underway in Britain and there are reports that the population will receive a third shot before winter this year.

Over 42 million people have had a first dose of a vaccine in Britain — that’s about 80% of the adult population — and over 30 million people have had their second dose.