Colorado, gun control and the 2nd Amendment

[Tisme]

That says it all I'm afraid. Kids bought up with guns is a bad way to start a life.

It's not quite as bad as holding a severed head, but it's heading in that direction.

I didn't realise the end where the Uzi is pointing at the bloke's head is where he gets his entry visa to gun heaven. Apparently the footage is from the child's parents.

I say book 'em Danno as unfit parents.

 

[SirRumpole]

I didn't realise the end where the Uzi is pointing at the bloke's head is where he gets his entry visa to gun heaven.

Neither did the child unfortunately

 

[Craton]

Far out! An Uzi firing nine mm slugs in auto mode and at virtually point blank range, never gonna end well is it.

I don't understand why in the hell you'd be teaching your nine yr old how to use an Uzi. Without knowing the US of A gun laws this is a great example that there's some serious flaws in them there laws! A weapon like that in the hands of a child is simply mind boggling. What are the parents, jihadists or worse, mentally deficient? Sorry, I just can't get my head around it.

I'd reckon too, that vid will become mandatory viewing for all instructors. Shows the all too real threat of being too front on very graphically.

R.I.P. Mr Instructor.

@DJG. Great replies and great insight into current gun ownership. Your attitude is not only refreshing but very mature and responsible.

Myself, being born and bred in the outback, guns were and still are part and parcel of life so am not against gun ownership. Guns certainly have their place both as vermin control and as sporting recreation. In the right hands, guns are safe, are valuable work tools, are prized sporting possessions. In the wrong hands, lives are at stake.

The old adage: guns don't kill people, people kill people. That's the world we live in and no amount of legislation will change that.

 

[>Apocalypto<]

China and India have larger populations than Planet America but I cannot recall news related to multiple killings by a civilian on civilians. It may happen but isn't reported, I don't know. The occurrence of civilian multiple killing civilians is high in America. Our own mentally ill civilian mass shooting brought about the most effective political decision ever made in my opinion. To hand in your guns or have good reason to be in possession of one and strictly licensed to do so. Thank you John Howard for that wisdom.

they happen in china, just with knives. there's been an increase last few years sadly.

Google
school stabbing china

 

[prawn_86]

The old adage: guns don't kill people, people kill people. That's the world we live in and no amount of legislation will change that.

It is that exact adage that the NRA and pro-gun lobby over here in 'Merica use. Why should you regulate guns when it's people that kill, not the guns...

It's amazing how many supposedly sensible people here think that more guns make them safer. In fact on the local news today i saw that regular police officers in certain suburbs are now allowed to carry AR-15's as that will make the suburb 'safer'. How the hell is an AR-15 going to make an area safer than a normal hand-gun??

 

[SirRumpole]

It is that exact adage that the NRA and pro-gun lobby over here in 'Merica use. Why should you regulate guns when it's people that kill, not the guns...

It's amazing how many supposedly sensible people here think that more guns make them safer. In fact on the local news today i saw that regular police officers in certain suburbs are now allowed to carry AR-15's as that will make the suburb 'safer'. How the hell is an AR-15 going to make an area safer than a normal hand-gun??

Living in a regional area on a property I own a gun for vermin eradication reasons. I have to say that I feel safer with it considering the local police are usually based 30km away and would take a while to get here if there was any trouble. Not that there ever has been.

Gun crime in this area seems pretty rare, despite the fact (told to me by a policewoman) that there are over 14,000 weapons in the Bathurst/Orange area. Possibly the fact that it is known that most households in the area would posses a gun deters the crims.

Of course, that could be an argument everywhere. In the cities it seems that only crims and gang members can get guns, however I don't think the answer is to let people in cities have guns for protection. The answer is to stop the import of illegal weapons and put very heavy penalties on illegal weapons possession.

I'm not normally a fan of John Howard, but I think he made a gutsy and correct move by toughening up on gun ownership.

 

[prawn_86]

but I think he made a gutsy and correct move by toughening up on gun ownership.

To be honest i think that was probably the last big show of political leadership and change for the good of the country that Australia has seen.

I grew up in the country too and have shot my share of guns, like you, i just fail to see a reason why the 'average' person should be able to own a gun.

 

[SirRumpole]

The insanity goes on...

No criminal charges after 9yo girl fatally shoots Arizona gun instructor with Uzi

Criminal charges will not be laid after a nine-year-old girl accidentally killed her instructor with an Uzi in Arizona, law enforcement officials said.

Charles Vacca, 39, was shot in the head when the girl lost control of the Uzi submachine gun she was learning to use at the Last Stop shooting range in White Hills, near the Nevada border, on Monday.

The girl, whom police did not identify, was at the outdoor range with her parents while visiting Nevada from New Jersey.

The incident has sparked debate over shooting ranges offering machine guns to casual visitors and the wisdom of giving children access to high-powered firearms.

The Mohave County Sheriff's Office said in a statement that it was "being viewed as an industrial accident", but state occupational health and safety officials are conducting their own probe of the incident, which was captured on video.

A clip released by the sheriff's office shows Mr Vacca giving a girl in pink shorts and a braided ponytail hands-on instruction as she aims the Uzi at a target.

Mr Vacca is heard encouraging the girl and asking her to fire the gun.

Then he tells her, "All right, full auto" and the weapon unleashes multiple rounds as the video cuts off.

It was apparently then that Mr Vacca was shot in the head when the girl lost control.

Authorities have not said how many times Mr Vacca was hit, but NBC News reported he was killed by a single bullet to the head.

A spokeswoman for the Arizona Division of Occupational Safety and Health confirmed that the agency was investigating the incident, but said state law prevented her from disclosing details.
'Where can I shoot a machine gun?'

The Last Stop, a tourist hub that also includes a restaurant, bar, caravan park and general store, is decorated with paintings of firearms, faux bullet holes and crosshairs and a mural depicting a gun-toting Sylvester Stallone in the film Rambo.

An employee at the scene said the range had resumed operations but gave no further comment, and gunfire could be heard coming from inside.

The Arizona Republic had earlier reported the range was closed following the incident. Owners of the gun range could not be reached for comment.

One of biggest questions I got from all over the world is 'where can I shoot a machine gun'?
Former bus driver Scott Edwards

Arizona Last Stop has a "Burgers and Bullets" program that offers customers lunch with a trip to the range, where they can choose from among more than 20 automatic weapons to shoot, according to its website.

The website shows the packages available for the shooting range, which is described as having a "unique Desert Storm atmosphere," and says each group gets a "certified ex-military firearms instructor". It lists the minimum age as eight.

Scott Edwards, a former Las Vegas bus driver visiting the Last Stop on Thursday, said such gun ranges were popular with tourists visiting from out of state.

"One of biggest questions I got from all over the world is 'where can I shoot a machine gun'?" Mr Edwards said.

Bob Irwin, who owns the Gun Store in Las Vegas, which he said was the oldest range offering machine guns in the city, said his facility had no age restrictions, instead using strength and weight as a metric.

Mr Irwin said Gun Store instructors were trained to hold the firearm for the child, who just pulled the trigger.

"There's no way a child that small is going to handle the vibration and motion of that gun," Mr Irwin said.

Some Uzi models are capable of firing up to 1,700 rounds per minute, or almost 30 rounds per second, according to the manufacturer's website.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-...hooting-gun-range-uzi-9-year-old-girl/5705158

 

[Craton]

It is that exact adage that the NRA and pro-gun lobby over here in 'Merica use. Why should you regulate guns when it's people that kill, not the guns...

It's amazing how many supposedly sensible people here think that more guns make them safer. In fact on the local news today i saw that regular police officers in certain suburbs are now allowed to carry AR-15's as that will make the suburb 'safer'. How the hell is an AR-15 going to make an area safer than a normal hand-gun??

By culling the vermin of course as per: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15#Australia

Australia

AR-15 rifles, like all semi-automatic rifles, are subject to strong restrictions of ownership in all states and territories in Australia. The only means of legally owning an AR-15-type rifle in Australia today beyond law enforcement is to have a Category D Firearms License (e.g. a professional animal culler), to have a Firearms Collector's License and the firearm deactivated (with the barrel plugged up and the action welded shut), or converted to blank fire if one is a member of a military re-enactment organization.

Restrictions on semi-automatic rifles were introduced in 1996 in response to the Port Arthur massacre – one of the firearms used was an AR-15. Previously, AR-15 rifles were legal to own in Queensland and Tasmania.

As a consequence to stricter legal requirements to semi-automatic firearms; AR-15 type rifles became too expensive for television and film production with the requirement to destroy or export imported semi-automatic rifles after use. Warwick Firearms & Militaria[22] , a Melbourne prop maker, self-manufactures blank firing AR-15-type, WFM4 rifles locally with approximately three dozen having been sold.

Living in a regional area on a property I own a gun for vermin eradication reasons. I have to say that I feel safer with it considering the local police are usually based 30km away and would take a while to get here if there was any trouble. Not that there ever has been.

Feeling safer can be a dual edged sword too. The owner of a local security firm here has always said, "...if ya carry a gun, ya gonna get shot at." I certainly wouldn't like to live by those words but he sure has a valid point.

Those cops prawn mentions, I can only imagine what weapons the crims will use in retaliation.

I'm not normally a fan of John Howard, but I think he made a gutsy and correct move by toughening up on gun ownership.

To be honest i think that was probably the last big show of political leadership and change for the good of the country that Australia has seen.

Certainly a gutsy move and one that Howard has often been applauded for.
I didn't mind handing back a .22 that had a broken ejector pin, ended up getting $30 more than I paid for that rifle too.

I grew up in the country too and have shot my share of guns, like you, i just fail to see a reason why the 'average' person should be able to own a gun.

That right there is where the Americans have the issue isn't it?

2nd Amendment reads in part:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Sure, no problems there, doesn't mean one has to actually keep or own a gun does it?

Unfortunately, American culture being what it is, their gun law is so embedded in their folk lore.

 

[SirRumpole]

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The militia is called the US Armed forces. Whether it is well regulated is another issue.

 

[DB008]

The insanity goes on...

No criminal charges after 9yo girl fatally shoots Arizona gun instructor with Uzi

Why should there be? It was an obvious accident. If anything, Darwin Award....

 

[Julia]

The insanity goes on...

No criminal charges after 9yo girl fatally shoots Arizona gun instructor with Uzi

I take it that the 'insanity' you refer to goes to no one being charged here. Who do you think should be charged and why? Seems like a dreadful accident to me.
That said, I abhor the American gun culture which allows this situation to occur in the first place.

 

[Wysiwyg]

The epitome of stupidity in regard to Planet America gun culture. The result :- man dead, family & friends grieving, child with experience of death/killing/blood.

 

[Wysiwyg]

How the hell is an AR-15 going to make an area safer than a normal hand-gun??

Oh that stems from the early years of evolution. If the nut doesn't crack, hit it harder.

 

[SirRumpole]

I take it that the 'insanity' you refer to goes to no one being charged here. Who do you think should be charged and why? Seems like a dreadful accident to me.
That said, I abhor the American gun culture which allows this situation to occur in the first place.

Who should be charged ? The parents and operators of the gun centre for putting a deadly weapon in the hands of a minor. Who would be charged if the child was allowed to drive a car on a public road ?

 

[DJG]

I grew up in the country too and have shot my share of guns, like you, i just fail to see a reason why the 'average' person should be able to own a gun.

The average person shouldn't have a drivers licence either, but hey, they passed all the same tests to get their drivers licence, just like the 'average' person passed to get their gun licence. I'm speaking Australia here by the way.

Of course the US laws regarding guns is somewhat 'whack'. It would be political suicide for a president to do anything drastic regarding guns though. It just won't happen, its far too embedded in their daily lives and culture...as bad as that might be.

Although most people probably think the saying 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' is just some 'hick' saying, it definitely has merit and you can't argue it doesn't. Such as in my last post, I think its just as much the people of the USA, then it is the fact they have guns. ie. it seems the majority are just f*cked in the head! plain and simple.

I don't believe in all of the US' gun laws and some are just insanely stupid. Although, who am I to comment on it...

Cheers for the praise Craton

 

[SirRumpole]

The average person shouldn't have a drivers licence either, but hey, they passed all the same tests to get their drivers licence, just like the 'average' person passed to get their gun licence. I'm speaking Australia here by the way.

I was talking to someone the other day who had a run in (literally) with a driver who possessed a foreign driving licence. This person (the owner of the foreign licence) was incapable to drive on our roads and in all probability obtained their licence by bribery.

So if we continue to recognise foreign driving licences, should we recognise foreign gun licences ? The best choice is to recognise neither, but I suspect that would upset foreign countries so we give in in the name of political correctness.

 

[DJG]

I was talking to someone the other day who had a run in (literally) with a driver who possessed a foreign driving licence. This person (the owner of the foreign licence) was incapable to drive on our roads and in all probability obtained their licence by bribery.

So if we continue to recognise foreign driving licences, should we recognise foreign gun licences ? The best choice is to recognise neither, but I suspect that would upset foreign countries so we give in in the name of political correctness.

By memory you may need to do a minor test to in order to convert from a foreign licence to domestic (although not to the extent an 18-year old does). I'd be skeptical to say it's bribery.

I'm unsure on your view regarding foreign gun licences, as there is no such thing - not in Australia anyway.

 

[SirRumpole]

By memory you may need to do a minor test to in order to convert from a foreign licence to domestic (although not to the extent an 18-year old does). I'd be skeptical to say it's bribery.

In Australia, laws and driving regulations differ from state to state. Some states require you to carry an International Licence with your current foreign licence. Other states request you carry your current foreign driver's licence together with a formal translation of your licence into English.

In most Australian states and territories (the exception is the Northern Territory), you are able to drive on a overseas licence as long as it is current. You can only drive vehicles which your overseas licence authorises you to drive and you must drive according to any conditions on your overseas licence.

http://australia.gov.au/content/driving-with-an-overseas-licence

The point is, as long as someone has a piece of paper that says they passed a test in a foreign country we let them drive on our roads. I think we all know that some countries are driven more by money than competence.

I'm unsure on your view regarding foreign gun licences, as there is no such thing - not in Australia anyway.

I don't think there is, but a comparison was made with driving licences. I don't think we should accept foreign driving licences because we don't accept foreign gun licences. The principle is the same.

 

[DJG]

That says it all I'm afraid. Kids bought up with guns is a bad way to start a life.

Have you ever seen a 16 year old shoot his first gun after playing 10 years of shooting video games? And just how far from reality they're when it comes to responsibility?

I'd much prefer a grown child/young adult be introduced to a real rifle (and thus the safety, consequences etc) before playing said video games.

You'll find ones who go the other way around will get overly excited seeing, let alone using a gun as if it's the first time they kissed a girl!

Obviously the parents of that girl are just plain stupid to think she could handle a full auto, which bare in mind has no support and purely using forearm strength.