Colorado, gun control and the 2nd Amendment

[IFocus]

Australia, unlike Israel and Switzerland, has adopted many aspects of American society; hence we also have a plethora of lonely, disenfrancised young men growing up without male role models. These young men have very little prospect of being included in the celebrity obsessed land of youth, beauty and consumerism; instead they find their solace amongst violent video games and violent movies. Unlike American society, Australia does not allow these young men to have unfettered access to military grade Bushmaster semi-automatics designed to ensure that the energy of its 0.233 calibre bullet remains trapped in the victim. So when they do take their awful vengeance against the society that has abandoned them, then the schools and colleges of the US run thick with blood. If Australia did allow such mentally unstable young men access to a plethora of high calibre weaponry, then I would shudder every day when my kids walked off to school.

I have always believed that you judge a society not on how it treats its strongest citizens, but on how it protects its most vulnerable citizens. There is no more vulnerable set of citizens than those poor, poor children who were only six years old. A paranoid citizenry who will tolerate babes being slayed at school so they can own a lethal weapon to appease their fear.

To quote Conrad, 'the horror, the horror ...'

Really good post Bushman

 

[IFocus]

According to this graph from 1988 the rate was dropping already?

so how does 1996 have anything to do with this?

and Mr Burns im alive and well thanks

There is a step change in the next three years after 96.

I don't know the numbers but would put money on the reduction of domestic shootings where the husband shoots the wife and or the kids.

 

[moXJO]

There is a step change in the next three years after 96.

I don't know the numbers but would put money on the reduction of domestic shootings where the husband shoots the wife and or the kids.

Pretty sure its suicide by gun. Be interesting to see what happened to the suicide rate.

 

[Surly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

Unlike American society, Australia does not allow these young men to have unfettered access to military grade Bushmaster semi-automatics designed to ensure that the energy of its 0.233 calibre bullet remains trapped in the victim. So when they do take their awful vengeance against the society that has abandoned them, then the schools and colleges of the US run thick with blood. If Australia did allow such mentally unstable young men access to a plethora of high calibre weaponry, then I would shudder every day when my kids walked off to school.

Bushman,

I am as abhored as anyone else by this and similar incidents.

But for the sake of balance, the killer was not given unfettered access to any of the weapons by an authority, he took them from his mother. Just as Bryant did not have licences for the assualt rifles he owned, and I doubt the guns used at the Milperra massacre were licensed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia


cheers
Surly

 

[Bushman]

Now this is innovative ... provide all school principals in the US with an assault rifle!

'Texan Republican congressman Louie Gohmert, who also appeared on Fox News, had a different view.

"I wish to God she [slain school principal Dawn Hochsprung] had had an M-4 [assault rifle] in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out ... and takes him out and takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids," he said.

He said it was important that citizens remained well armed so that they could resist government tyranny.

"Once you start drawing the line, where do you stop? That's why it is important to not just look at this emotionally."'



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/firs...gun-control-20121217-2biem.html#ixzz2FHfzjxiG

 

[Macquack]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia


But for the sake of balance, the killer was not given unfettered access to any of the weapons by an authority, he took them from his mother. Just as Bryant did not have licences for the assualt rifles he owned, and I doubt the guns used at the Milperra massacre were licensed.

The question is why did his mother need to have these weapons?

 

[IFocus]

Now this is innovative ... provide all school principals in the US with an assault rifle!

'Texan Republican congressman Louie Gohmert, who also appeared on Fox News, had a different view.

"I wish to God she [slain school principal Dawn Hochsprung] had had an M-4 [assault rifle] in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out ... and takes him out and takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids," he said.

He said it was important that citizens remained well armed so that they could resist government tyranny.

"Once you start drawing the line, where do you stop? That's why it is important to not just look at this emotionally."'



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/firs...gun-control-20121217-2biem.html#ixzz2FHfzjxiG

brilliant idea the man is a genius she could have stormed the class room full of 7 year old kids and blazed away with the M4.

 

[Smurf1976]

In South Africa (another exceptionally violent society), a deterent has been the fortification of schools, shopping centers and homes. So potentially Americans will need to look at the soft spot in their public infrastructure and keep fortifying these. Surveillance, armed guards etc.

....

The US has been very sucessful at combating external terrorism. Off course, this 'big brother' approach would probably re-inforce suspicion of the federal government over there.

As an example, anyone (ie tourists) visiting the Statue of Liberty goes through airport-style security screening before getting on the ferry which takes you on the short trip there.

Visit the 911 Memorial (World Trade Centre site) and it's the same airport-style security to get in.

Even getting into Disney World requires ID and finger printing (literally).

Closer to home, it's even down to places such as nightclubs with walk through metal detectors and a "remove your belts and empty your pockets etc into the tray" routine (in addition to the normal bouncers).

Do we really want to live in a world where such procedures end up being extended to things like getting on buses or simply entering a shop? Sadly, that's the way we're headed - people would have thought the idea ridiculous some years ago but it doesn't take a big jump to get there today now that we're already doing it in so many places.

 

[bellenuit]

The question is why did his mother need to have these weapons?

I was reading a web sire today (sorry, but I don't have the source) that the mother was a prepper (one who is preparing for some major catastrophe).

 

[Julia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

Bushman,

I am as abhored as anyone else by this and similar incidents.

But for the sake of balance, the killer was not given unfettered access to any of the weapons by an authority, he took them from his mother.

Pretty hard to imagine why his mother required such an arsenal.

brilliant idea the man is a genius she could have stormed the class room full of 7 year old kids and blazed away with the M4.

I was horrified at that remark by the Republican also, but on reflection maybe the principal could indeed have killed the gunman and saved the lives of many children and herself.

 

[MrBurns]

The question is why did his mother need to have these weapons?

She had them for protection I believe, like everyone else, didn't work out that way though, she was the first to go.

 

[MrBurns]

I was horrified at that remark by the Republican also, but on reflection maybe the principal could indeed have killed the gunman and saved the lives of many children and herself.

You cant have guns in schools, teachers would need to be trained etc, you CAN however have armed guards, now how much would that cost..........

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I still reckon the Yanks should get John Winston Howard over there to advise them on a strategy to curb the crazy gun culture.

He certainly did it here against much opposition, a formidable brave move on his part.

gg

 

[So_Cynical]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

Bushman,

I am as abhored as anyone else by this and similar incidents.

But for the sake of balance, the killer was not given unfettered access to any of the weapons by an authority, he took them from his mother. Just as Bryant did not have licences for the assualt rifles he owned, and I doubt the guns used at the Milperra massacre were licensed.

Surly

Back in those days no licence was needed in TAS to buy Semi auto assault rifles...Bryant didn't have a licence because none was needed, same as in QLD at the time.

 

[Surly]

Back in those days no licence was needed in TAS to buy Semi auto assault rifles...Bryant didn't have a licence because none was needed, same as in QLD at the time.

"The Port Arthur perpetrator said he bought his firearms from a gun dealer without holding the required firearms licence."

Irrespective, people crazy enough to murder dozens of people are crazy enough to acquire weapons illegally.

The results of police raids show that serious assault weapons are still in the hands of (the wrong) people in our community.

Armed robbery is now committed with syringes and screw drivers. The problem is not tool used to deliver the threat.

cheers
Surly

 

[So_Cynical]

"The Port Arthur perpetrator said he bought his firearms from a gun dealer without holding the required firearms licence."

Surly ..with respect , i don't make this stuff up...NO licence was required at the time in TAS.

First, Tasmanian gun laws were notoriously weak. Until 1 January 1993, when the Guns Act 1991 came into force, there was no system of licensing or registration of firearms other than pistols.

The Guns Act 1991 had, for the first time, introduced a
system of licensing of all firearms. But only pistols and fully automatic guns had to be registered. The
minister had the power under the Act to declare certain semi-automatic firearms ‘prohibited guns’
which would mean that a permit was required to possess such a weapon and it would have to be
registered. This power was not exercised until 7 May 1996, nine days after Port Arthur. The
Prohibited Guns Order 1996 declared four kinds of self-loading centre-fire firearms to be ‘prohibited
guns’. The Firearms Bill 1996,

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/conferences/outlook99/warner.pdf

 

[Tink]

I dont know how they live in a culture with so many guns, and for what purpose.
I dont see that as freedom.

With Mental Health escalating, its just too easy for these people to get their hands on guns, btw great post Bushman.
If nothing changes after this event, just proves how strong this gun lobby is, and sadly, everytime we hear something on the news, we arent surprised.

 

[prawn_86]

Irrespective, people crazy enough to murder dozens of people are crazy enough to acquire weapons illegally.

The results of police raids show that serious assault weapons are still in the hands of (the wrong) people in our community.

Armed robbery is now committed with syringes and screw drivers. The problem is not tool used to deliver the threat.

I disagree with your first point. Anecdotally it seems that these 'crazy' people in Australia do not go to the eoffort o obtain an illegal gun and go on a rampage; whereas it is much easier in the US (or they might already have them).

Yes there are assault weapons here in the hands of criminal gangs, but far pewer on a per capita basis, and generally the gangs tend to keep it between themselves.

It is hard to kill someone with a screwdriver whereas one nervous moment with a gun and someone can be dead

 

[Knobby22]

A stat in today's Age.

The slaughter of children by gunfire is 25 times the rate of the next 20 next largest industrial countries combined. (That means for the next 20 largest countries, if they had 100 children shot in a year then the USA would have had 2500!)

Since the assisnation of Martin Luther King, over 1 million American children and adults have been shot dead.


i can't see much change though. The american attitude is encapsulated below by their former Vice President from when he was still in power.

"The source of happiness springs from a Gun" Dick Cheney

 

[nomore4s]

A stat in today's Age.

The slaughter of children by gunfire is 25 times the rate of the next 20 next largest industrial countries combined. (That means for the next 20 largest countries, if they had 100 children shot in a year then the USA would have had 2500!)

Since the assisnation of Martin Luther King, over 1 million American children and adults have been shot dead.


i can't see much change though. The american attitude is encapsulated below by their former Vice President from when he was still in power.

"The source of happiness springs from a Gun" Dick Cheney

That is an amazing stat. And an even more amazing comment from a powerful figure. Not much happiness for the families of the children killed in the latest school shooting.