Colorado, gun control and the 2nd Amendment

[white_goodman]

No, it wouldn't. Guns are a Pandora's Box, once they are widely available it will take decades to get rid of them.

Does it deter other crimes? Well it's a lot harder to beat someone to death than it is to shoot them.

its a lot easier to bomb a crowd of people than to shoot them.. doesnt mean much

 

[So_Cynical]

read the paper i posted, it wont take long, you may find it illuminating..

its only a sufficient argument if you don't like to read or know anything

I spent 10 minutes flipping thru it, i wasn't illuminated...i like reading and knowing stuff, how about you?

there is much more explanatory variables than simply gun rights/ownership.

What are gun rights? i have heard of human rights, the right to peace and liberty etc...but what's a gun right?

 

[McLovin]

its a lot easier to bomb a crowd of people than to shoot them.. doesnt mean much

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Building a bomb requires time. The overwhelming majority of murders are committed in the heat of the moment where the victim is known. Spree killings get headlines but they're a tiny fraction of the actual number of murders.

 

[bellenuit]

Switzerland/Israel = high availability, little gun homicide (more appropriate measure is total homicide)

I'd have to check on this to be certain, but I'm pretty sure the high ownership of guns in these two countries is related to the integration of civilians in the defence of the country. An armed civilian population is an extension of the military. However, the ownership of these civilian held guns is tightly controlled and they are not carried willy nilly by almost anyone as is the US experience.

 

[white_goodman]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Building a bomb requires time. The overwhelming majority of murders are committed in the heat of the moment where the victim is known. Spree killings get headlines but they're a tiny fraction of the actual number of murders.

 

[Julia]

Ok so what's not beyond dispute is the fact that there are a lot of guns in the US,

What are you actually trying to say? "what's not beyond dispute" means it is up for dispute, doesn't it?

 

[So_Cynical]

What are you actually trying to say? "what's not beyond dispute" means it is up for dispute, doesn't it?

Yes your right Julia...yet another brain snap.

 

[DB008]

Watch this.

In a heated discussion, CNN's Piers Morgan and guests debate the need for stricter gun control laws in America.
CNN.com World

http://edition.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/world/2012/12/15/pmt-panel-gun-control-debate.cnn

 

[Smurf1976]

Meanwhile here in Australia.......

A NINE-YEAR-OLD girl called police after the apparent shooting murders of her mother and her mother's partner northwest of Hobart this morning

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2012/12/16/368471_tasmania-news.html

 

[Knobby22]

The fact is that since Howard's gun law reforms, gun deaths have dropped by half.

The gun lobby can talk about freedom all it likes and quote slogans that people kill people not guns and all I have to do is remember the above figure and also look at China when they tried to stab children to death and none of them died compared to the very successful killing using military assualt rifles.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/12/2012121481220620325.html

 

[Calliope]

Obama's use of weasel words such as "meaningful action" on gun control, sounds like "Gillard Speak." It means we will talk about it and do nothing.

 

[Ageo]

The fact is that since Howard's gun law reforms, gun deaths have dropped by half.

Fact eh? i would like to see them please

 

[MrBurns]

Fact eh? i would like to see them please

You're still alive arent you ?

 

[MrBurns]

Fact eh? i would like to see them please

Port Arthur, but the reforms in 1996 caused that decline to accelerate dramatically. In the early 1990s, about 600 Australians were dying each year by gunfire; that figure is now fewer than 250.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...-presages-another-tragedy-20110427-1dwmx.html

 

[DB008]

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia

 

[Ageo]

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia

According to this graph from 1988 the rate was dropping already?

so how does 1996 have anything to do with this?

and Mr Burns im alive and well thanks

 

[Bushman]

Australia, unlike Israel and Switzerland, has adopted many aspects of American society; hence we also have a plethora of lonely, disenfrancised young men growing up without male role models. These young men have very little prospect of being included in the celebrity obsessed land of youth, beauty and consumerism; instead they find their solace amongst violent video games and violent movies. Unlike American society, Australia does not allow these young men to have unfettered access to military grade Bushmaster semi-automatics designed to ensure that the energy of its 0.233 calibre bullet remains trapped in the victim. So when they do take their awful vengeance against the society that has abandoned them, then the schools and colleges of the US run thick with blood. If Australia did allow such mentally unstable young men access to a plethora of high calibre weaponry, then I would shudder every day when my kids walked off to school.

I have always believed that you judge a society not on how it treats its strongest citizens, but on how it protects its most vulnerable citizens. There is no more vulnerable set of citizens than those poor, poor children who were only six years old. A paranoid citizenry who will tolerate babes being slayed at school so they can own a lethal weapon to appease their fear.

To quote Conrad, 'the horror, the horror ...'

 

[prawn_86]

On a less emotional, more rational note; I would be interested to hear from those who oppose the restrictions of guns in the US, as to how the propose to reduce these mass killings, and gun deaths in general?

 

[Bushman]

If they are going to insist on going down the path of enshrining the second amendment, then it is very difficult to see how they can reduce the gun toll?

In South Africa (another exceptionally violent society), a deterent has been the fortification of schools, shopping centers and homes. So potentially Americans will need to look at the soft spot in their public infrastructure and keep fortifying these. Surveillance, armed guards etc.

The long-term solution for me would be better profiling of potential offenders (social media, counsellors, law enforcement), better communication between different homeland affairs departments and a genuine committment to mental health. The US has been very sucessful at combating external terrorism. Off course, this 'big brother' approach would probably re-inforce suspicion of the federal government over there.

Potentially, the legal system could also play a part. A few class law suits against the manufacturers of the retail versions of these assualt rifles could well cause change at a company level, ensuring that citizens only have access to less lethal weapons.

There is little that can be done about the societal issues that is driving all this alienation from society. If this was an industry, you would call it an structural change.

 

[Ageo]

On a less emotional, more rational note; I would be interested to hear from those who oppose the restrictions of guns in the US, as to how the propose to reduce these mass killings, and gun deaths in general?

Prawn im not saying i agree with the U.S gun laws as some measures have to be put in place such as strong background checks, storage requirements and possibly extra requirements for semi auto rifles etc..

but the problem in the U.S is much more than just simply gun control, guns or no guns to "plan a mass shooting" is beyond comprehension.... the argument from pro gun people will be why should we be punished because of a few small minorities actions? of course the reverse will be said from anti's who will say "ban them all"

Glorification of the killers is another problem from the mass media, for example

Name the person responsible for the Port Arthur Mass Murder?

Name one person who died at Port Arthur on the 28 April 1996?

Who deserves our memories?

This just proves that people remember the killers more than any victim which will encourage (unfortunately) more killings, of course by restricting ownership you can prevent some but the problem still lies why are they wanting to commit this sort of crime in the 1st place?

Also not to mention countries that have high ownership such as Israel, Switzerland, Canada etc.. you dont see this kind of crime happening and its to do with the society and culture

sad event and i feel for all the families involved

P.S im not going to get into a heated debate but i just wanted to point out some of my views