over9k
So I didn't tell my wife, but I...
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Corruption? What are you talking about? Xi Jinping won 104% of the vote fair & square.
China and The West: Political Systems Compared and Contrasted
- Thread starter SirRumpole
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Came across this story of Chinese/Australian political relations. They play for keeps...
www.smh.com.au
'Let me buy Rio Tinto': China's brazen bid to buy our companies
A meeting between Joe Hockey and the Chinese finance minister is emblematic of the country's growing arrogance.
Garpal Gumnut
Ross Island Hotel
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This fellow Jeff Sparrow, who is a Guardian columnist certainly puts the case that any opposition to war with China is not available from the latté left in Australia and the West. I seldom agree with him, but he makes sense in this case.
The rush to warlike rhetoric comes from well padded politicians and fails to be rebuffed by the ALP or the broader left in any significant way. This is because the latter have gone soft and exclusive, hidden in universities arguing against average working people on fatuous issues.
In China on the other hand, opposition arises from time to time, and in the case of Hong Kong is crushed. It is a given that The Leadership rules.
I wonder if an anti-war movement in Australia would be swatted like a nuisance fly by spin, media, apathy and a lack of cojones by the left.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...d-who-will-stop-the-march-to-the-drums-of-war
gg
The rush to warlike rhetoric comes from well padded politicians and fails to be rebuffed by the ALP or the broader left in any significant way. This is because the latter have gone soft and exclusive, hidden in universities arguing against average working people on fatuous issues.
In China on the other hand, opposition arises from time to time, and in the case of Hong Kong is crushed. It is a given that The Leadership rules.
I wonder if an anti-war movement in Australia would be swatted like a nuisance fly by spin, media, apathy and a lack of cojones by the left.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...d-who-will-stop-the-march-to-the-drums-of-war
gg
over9k
So I didn't tell my wife, but I...
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Well it's not like latte sipping chattering classes have ever been the ones to actually fight in the wars.
You think it's a coincidence that it's the working class people that actually end up in the trenches that have always been the ones to oppose the wars?
This china thing is actually quite interesting to watch the modern day left on as the left doesn't consider there to be any evil non-white people to have ever existed in human history and especially not now. They're in quite a pickle really as they'd have to admit that it's some non-white people that are the baddies and some white people who are the goodies and in their minds that's just not possible.
You think it's a coincidence that it's the working class people that actually end up in the trenches that have always been the ones to oppose the wars?
This china thing is actually quite interesting to watch the modern day left on as the left doesn't consider there to be any evil non-white people to have ever existed in human history and especially not now. They're in quite a pickle really as they'd have to admit that it's some non-white people that are the baddies and some white people who are the goodies and in their minds that's just not possible.
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I have yet to see anyone put a case for China having any interest in war.
China is only interested in ensuring its principal sea routes for trade can be protected.
The baseless claims that are bandied about seem to be accepted here. Worse, they are largely internal Chinese affairs that nations stay out of as a rule.
As I said before, this reminds of Trump's claim that he won the election. Look at the evidence and discuss that rather than the rhetoric.
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From who? As you say it is a super power, with a huge navy and impressive armed forces, who is going to steal ships from them?
Craton
Mostly passive, contrarian.
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I personally don't see war as an option. China may not have any interest in war however I see the discussion as "...what if?"
Notwithstanding the so called war on terror, I seriously doubt any of the "super powers" have an appetite to commit to armed conflict. Gaslighting (e.g. Photo-shopped images), diplomatic shenanigans and cyber bullying are far more effective in today's world.
I'm no strategist but all out war, wow, how would that play out?
China, Russia, Nth Korea and their allies against the rest isn't going to end well for either side although, it could be the required reset for the global economy. Now that is one scary thought.
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America has exercised the war option many times since WWII.
America has an excellent track record of overthrowing/attempted to overthrow popular/democratically elected governments and replacing them with tyrants/dictators. So don't worry about there being a "strategy" involved when it comes to America.
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Can't disagree with that, what was the old saying the Arabs unfortunately are sitting on the U.S oil reserves. ?
Maybe now it is a situation where, we are unfortunately sitting on China's iron ore reserves.
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I hope you are not serious!All in the cause of defending democracy rob.
Craton
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Now there ya go you see rederob!
It's statements like the one in bold that don't sit well with me. It comes across as if to say the USA have done so wholly and solely on their lonesome which is not entirely correct is it?
On the other side of the see-saw, the Chinese "Art of War" list from the same reference.
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Instigating revolution and providing troops who are involved in conflict in distant nations are acts of war.
Where has China been intimately involved in ousting elected leaders and installing dictators?
Or fabricating a case for war?
Most of China's post-WWII war involvement relates to border/territorial issues, or later involvement at the request of other nations such as North Korea or North Vietnam.
I am not sure what the past has to do with this discussion except to show the shambles America leaves post-conflict.
I am trying to work out why Australia is talking up something as serious as armed conflict with China. Moreover, aside from trade disputes, what would be the trigger? If it's Taiwan then we would be actively involved in the subversion of the internationally accepted one China policy.
Craton
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I do wonder what would happen if:
1. Australia
2. the rest of the West
dumped the US of A as the defacto "enforcer" and sided with China?
1. Australia
2. the rest of the West
dumped the US of A as the defacto "enforcer" and sided with China?
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USA as enforcing what?
- Regime change
- Renditions/torture
- Drone killings
- Extrajudicial executions
- Offshore cyber spying
- Bullying
- Sanctions/embargos
- Trade violations
- Non-compliance with UN Resolutions
- Voter suppression
- America First
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- Regime change -- international spying
- Renditions/torture -- concentration camps for Uighurs and dissidents
- Drone killings
- Extrajudicial executions -- judicial executions for dissent
- Offshore cyber spying -- cyber attacks on institutions/ infrastructure
- Bullying -- what , really ? Monitoring of and interference with Chinese diaspora in other nations
- Sanctions/embargos -- China attacks on Australian exports
- Trade violations -- see above
- Non-compliance with UN Resolutions -- taking over disputed islands in the South China sea.
- Voter suppression -- in a one party country that's a joke
- America First -- China first
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Not a good rebuttal @SirRumpole as many of your points are not relevant, not supported by evidence, or very weak.
While islands in the Spratley's archipelago remain contested by 5 nations to this day, the same cannot be said about the America/UK claims over Diego Garcia.
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Well , what can I say ?
No use replying to someone who doesn't read the news or ignores any evidence that doesn't suit his views.
Typical propagandist.
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Just offer actual evidence, and stop thinking like Trump that because you said it, it's true.
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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I do have my concerns with China but just to add to Robs points Brian Toohey compares China to our behavoir.
"Australian journalists routinely refer to Chinese “aggression” offshore without acknowledging that it is minuscule, unlike that unleashed by American and Australian democracies in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam."
www.michaelwest.com.au
J’Accuse! Peddling government propaganda, media over-hypes “drums of war” with China
"Australian journalists routinely refer to Chinese “aggression” offshore without acknowledging that it is minuscule, unlike that unleashed by American and Australian democracies in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam."
J'Accuse! Peddling government propaganda, media over-hypes "drums of war" with China - Michael West
Authoritarian states and their cyber attacks have attracted much criticism. But the US and its allies pioneered this approach decades ago.
www.michaelwest.com.au
