China and The West: Political Systems Compared and Contrasted

[finicky]

Proof that you havent taken a bit of notice of my warblings is that I have said no, two times, I have not looked at your video.

 

[finicky]

So you know that the knee cut off blood supply to his brain do you? Not only that you know that it was sustained for a couple of minutes.

 

[Value Collector]

Proof that you havent taken a bit of notice of my warblings is that I have said no, two times, I have not looked at your video.

so if you haven’t actually watched the video of him dying, why do you have such strong opinions about whether or not the cops did the right thing?

You should really watch the video, and ask yourself if that is how you would have treated the guy?

 

[Value Collector]

"if you have a knee in your neck that cuts off your blood supply to your brain ..."
You don't know this premiss at all - there is no evidence of it.

Watch the video before you comment

 

[SirRumpole]

so if you haven’t actually watched the video of him dying, why do you have such strong opinions about whether or not the cops did the right thing?

You should really watch the video, and ask yourself if that is how you would have treated the guy?

No doubt that what happened to George Floyd was awful, but the cop that did it is now in jail.

The same sort of thing happens in China every day. People disappear or are executed and those who do it are "heroes of the Party".

That's the difference between the two systems, it's invalid to excuse one by the other.

eg If I said what happened to Floyd is excusable because the same thing happens in China , you would object to that logic wouldn't you ?

 

[againsthegrain]

No doubt that what happened to George Floyd was awful, but the cop that did it is now in jail.

The same sort of thing happens in China every day. People disappear or are executed and those who do it are "heroes of the Party".

That's the difference between the two systems, it's invalid to excuse one by the other.

eg If I said what happened to Floyd is excusable because the same thing happens in China , you would object to that logic wouldn't you ?

Their organs harvested too

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

In any discussion on empires, whether it be China or the USA, one always must heed to be with the winners and not the losers.

This has served the Gumnut family well since one of the maternal ancestors crossed from Egypt In to the Levant some hundreds of thousands of years ago.

Democracy is a very fragile system, particularly in the USA which was built on slavery and conquest, as were many other empires. Universal suffrage and voting is a modern comedic concept manipulated by large players such as media and PR mavens.

"Communism" and I use that word advisedly, as is practised in China appears to be successful in looking after the Han genome, and as a Gumnut this bothers me.

So, I am undecided, as my maternal ancestor was, whether to turn left or right, whether to back the USA or see how China evolves.

She turned right.

gg

 

[sptrawler]

I guess from reading the responses in the thread, the leaning of the poster appears to depend on their exposure or affiliations, which is understandable.
Personally I think Australia will do better sourcing other markets, as will China, when either side takes the other for granted it is time to reduce both parties exposure to one another.

 

[Value Collector]

No doubt that what happened to George Floyd was awful, but the cop that did it is now in jail.

The same sort of thing happens in China every day. People disappear or are executed and those who do it are "heroes of the Party".

That's the difference between the two systems, it's invalid to excuse one by the other.

eg If I said what happened to Floyd is excusable because the same thing happens in China , you would object to that logic wouldn't you ?

Finicky is defending the cops that killed George, without even watching the video, people acting that way aren’t helping either America or China improve.

 

[againsthegrain]

Finicky is defending the cops that killed George, without even watching the video, people acting that way aren’t helping either America or China improve.

Police don't have a easy job in USA, alot of them get shot and stabbed but you do not see much of that on the mainstream media

Not defending the guy that killed Floyd, however you can see how easily the tables can be turned on them.

For reference
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9364523/amp/Woman-shot-dead-pulling-gun-cop-critically-injuring-traffic-stop.html

 

[rederob]

I guess from reading the responses in the thread, the leaning of the poster appears to depend on their exposure or affiliations, which is understandable.
Personally I think Australia will do better sourcing other markets, as will China, when either side takes the other for granted it is time to reduce both parties exposure to one another.

Try using data seeing your recent claims and assumptions in the thread have been flawed.
Which markets are you proposing for our metals (iron ore = 55% of total) and energy exports, or were you just tossing an idea into the air?

What about the $billions from student education? Thousands of jobs lost already.
That's not likely to improve after Morrison's racist criminalisation of Australians returning from India.

Here's the the 2-way trade flow which has shown an increasing trend:

So while it will be great if the trend can be reversed, the gross volumes involved mean that any quick change could have significant trade/economic ramifications.

 

[sptrawler]

Try using data seeing your recent claims and assumptions in the thread have been flawed.
Which markets are you proposing for our metals (iron ore = 55% of total) and energy exports, or were you just tossing an idea into the air?
View attachment 123698
What about the $billions from student education? Thousands of jobs lost already.
That's not likely to improve after Morrison's racist criminalisation of Australians returning from India.

Here's the the 2-way trade flow which has shown an increasing trend:
View attachment 123699

So while it will be great if the trend can be reversed, the gross volumes involved mean that any quick change could have significant trade/economic ramifications.

I would still guess there are more people trying to immigrate to the U.S, U.K, E.U and Australia NZ, than China, so if you want to head off to China to live, we might start a whip around on the forum for you. ?

With regard the 55% of our iron ore, we have just as much chance finding new markets as China has finding new suppliers.
It was only 5 or so years ago iron ore was at $30/ton, we survived and if China disappears we will survive, the rich listers may reduce but the workers will move on as always.
We aren't China's dog to be whipped into submission just because they buy our ore, they have no allegiance to us nor us to them.
Trying to infer we should just shut up whilst China bullies us, seems to fly in the face of the left wing persona you try to project, it isn't the Australian way mate.
So China can sod off and take its crap with them, if that means we have a drop in living standards, so be it, better being free and poor than rich and someone's #!&h

 

[rederob]

I would still guess there are more people trying to immigrate to the U.S, U.K, E.U and Australia NZ, than China, so if you want to head off to China to live, we might start a whip around on the forum for you. ?

You offered zip in relation to your assertion that "the leaning of the poster appears to depend on their exposure or affiliations."
And you offered as much again in response to the questions I raised immediately above.
If the best you can do is run a personal commentary, maybe you need to be posting it on Facebook?

 

[sptrawler]

You offered zip in relation to your assertion that "the leaning of the poster appears to depend on their exposure or affiliations."
And you offered as much again in response to the questions I raised immediately above.
If the best you can do is run a personal commentary, maybe you need to be posting it on Facebook?

You offered zip in response to the assertion, that if you made the derogatory comments about Xi as you do about Morrison, in China you would spend the rest of your life in jail. So what.
The problem is you try to paint China as some benevolent overlord, that has Australia's best interest at heart, when in reality China will throw us in the ditch when they no longer have use of us.
I think Australia is absolutely doing the right thing, and no doubt China will source their iron ore from Africa, I can't wait to see how that goes for them.
In my life I've never seen a coward that runs from a bully, come out in front, eventually the bully catches up and the result is the same.
Same goes for borrowing money from payday lenders, eventually you pay the piper.

China's opportunities and risks in Africa's giant iron ore field

Guinea region holds world's largest untapped reserves but lacks infrastructure

asia.nikkei.com

 

[rederob]

You offered zip in response to the assertion, that if you made the derogatory comments about Xi as you do about Morrison, in China you would spend the rest of your life in jail. So what.

Because that's not true, unless you defame him. China does have laws. You clearly don't understand them and you might not like them, but look at the dozens of examples of roads built around nail houses because citizens have rights.

The problem is you try to paint China as some benevolent overlord, that has Australia's best interest at heart, when in reality China with throw us in the ditch when they no longer have use of us.

I am an analyst. I use data. Try using data instead of opinions based on ignorance.

If you cannot post on topic here, and want to keep making it personal, go somewhere else.

 

[sptrawler]

Oh well that took me 3 seconds of looking.


From the article:
FENG: Demolition crews and about 300 security guards circle the Xiangtang complex each day, knocking down the unoccupied houses while keeping those who refuse to leave indoors.

YUSUF ZHANG: (Non-English language spoken).

FENG: Yusuf Zhang, one of those residents, gives me a tour of his tasteful, three-story stone house. The local government has already cut off his electricity and water to kick him out and then knock down his house without paying him. So Zhang has stored huge tanks of drinking water around his home. Boxes of dried noodles litter his marble floors. He's prepared for a siege.

ZHANG: (Through interpreter) We bought dozens of fire extinguishers to use as weapons as we prepare to protest.



Another article:
There may be laws, but the system apparently encourages them to be circumvented.
From the article:
“Amnesty said one problem is that the ruling Communist Party continues to promote local officials who deliver economic growth, however it is achieved, and land redevelopment — for roads, factories or housing — is seen as the most direct path to visible results. "The Chinese authorities must immediately halt all forced evictions. There needs to be an end to the political incentives, tax gains and career advancements that encourage local officials to continue with such illegal practices," said Nicola Duckworth, Amnesty senior director of research.

Amnesty: Forced Home Evictions Are Rising in China​

In October 2012, Amnesty International said cases of people being forcibly evicted from their homes and land were rising significantly in China, making it single greatest source of public discontent and a serious threat to the country's social and political stability. Louise Watt of Associated Press wrote: “Forced demolitions have long been a way of life in China. But evictions have escalated over the past three years during a nationwide construction boom spurred by massive stimulus spending after the global financial crisis, Amnesty International said in its report, which cited Chinese housing rights activists, lawyers and academics but did not provide estimates for the total number of evictions. [Source: Louise Watt, Associated Press, October 11, 2012 /*/]

“The human rights group said that local authorities seize and then sell off land in deals of questionable legitimacy, relying on the income to pay off huge debts incurred to finance stimulus projects. Developers are known to often hire thugs to threaten residents, sometimes with violence. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said at a daily briefing that Amnesty International "has consistently been biased against China," adding that "The report has no credibility whatsoever." /*/

Amnesty said there were no reliable estimates of the number of people who had been forced from their homes or farms, "but there is little doubt the figure has risen significantly." "The problem of forced evictions represents the single most significant source of popular discontent in China and a serious threat to social and political stability," the report said.

HOME DEMOLITIONS AND EVICTIONS IN CHINA | Facts and Details

factsanddetails.com

 

[rederob]

Oh well that took me 3 seconds of looking.


From the article:
FENG: Demolition crews and about 300 security guards circle the Xiangtang complex each day, knocking down the unoccupied houses while keeping those who refuse to leave indoors.

YUSUF ZHANG: (Non-English language spoken).

FENG: Yusuf Zhang, one of those residents, gives me a tour of his tasteful, three-story stone house. The local government has already cut off his electricity and water to kick him out and then knock down his house without paying him. So Zhang has stored huge tanks of drinking water around his home. Boxes of dried noodles litter his marble floors. He's prepared for a siege.

ZHANG: (Through interpreter) We bought dozens of fire extinguishers to use as weapons as we prepare to protest.



Another article:
There may be laws, but the system apparently encourages them to be circumvented.
From the article:
“Amnesty said one problem is that the ruling Communist Party continues to promote local officials who deliver economic growth, however it is achieved, and land redevelopment — for roads, factories or housing — is seen as the most direct path to visible results. "The Chinese authorities must immediately halt all forced evictions. There needs to be an end to the political incentives, tax gains and career advancements that encourage local officials to continue with such illegal practices," said Nicola Duckworth, Amnesty senior director of research.

Amnesty: Forced Home Evictions Are Rising in China​

In October 2012, Amnesty International said cases of people being forcibly evicted from their homes and land were rising significantly in China, making it single greatest source of public discontent and a serious threat to the country's social and political stability. Louise Watt of Associated Press wrote: “Forced demolitions have long been a way of life in China. But evictions have escalated over the past three years during a nationwide construction boom spurred by massive stimulus spending after the global financial crisis, Amnesty International said in its report, which cited Chinese housing rights activists, lawyers and academics but did not provide estimates for the total number of evictions. [Source: Louise Watt, Associated Press, October 11, 2012 /*/]

“The human rights group said that local authorities seize and then sell off land in deals of questionable legitimacy, relying on the income to pay off huge debts incurred to finance stimulus projects. Developers are known to often hire thugs to threaten residents, sometimes with violence. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said at a daily briefing that Amnesty International "has consistently been biased against China," adding that "The report has no credibility whatsoever." /*/

Amnesty said there were no reliable estimates of the number of people who had been forced from their homes or farms, "but there is little doubt the figure has risen significantly." "The problem of forced evictions represents the single most significant source of popular discontent in China and a serious threat to social and political stability," the report said.

HOME DEMOLITIONS AND EVICTIONS IN CHINA | Facts and Details

factsanddetails.com

What can happen and what was lawful are not always the same.
Corruption over land deals remains rife across the world. Our former Mayor was sacked for questionable land dealings and other unrelated matters. In Queensland the biggest donors to Council elections are land and property developers.

 

[sptrawler]

Because that's not true, unless you defame him. .

Well I'm not disagreeing with you, because that is a waste of time, but just saying.

Ren Zhiqiang - who called Chinese president a 'clown' - jailed for 18 years

Former real estate mogul was investigated after criticising Xi Jinping over his handling of the coronavirus pandemic

www.theguardian.com

Chinese Netizen Imprisoned For 10 Days After Insulting Xi Jinping On WeChat

A Chinese netizen was sentenced to 10 days in prison and the payment of a fine after he insulted President Xi Jinping in a WeChat group. As Taiwan-based Apple Daily reports, on July 19 a 39-year-ol…

china-journal.org

Two Years in Jail for Calling Xi Jinping a ‘Steamed Bun’ - The News Lens International Edition

It is a dangerous game playing fast and loose with nicknames in China, even with your friends online.

international.thenewslens.com

China arrested a US university student for mocking its president in tweets

Censorship in China never ceases to baffle us, and the country has taken yet another surprising step by arresting a University of Minnesota student for posting âoffensiveâ tweets while he was in the US. According to a report by Axios, Luo D

thenextweb.com

China Is Now Sending Twitter Users to Prison for Posts Most Chinese Can’t See

More than 50 people have been jailed in the past three years in an escalation of the Communist Party’s assault on use of foreign social media.

www.wsj.com

 

[sptrawler]

It sounds as though some of its close friends, are even getting a bit fed up with China, sounds all very similar to our situation.

Philippines’ foreign minister to China: ‘get the f--- out’

In an expletive-laden tweet about Chinese vessels in disputed waters, Teodoro Locsin called China an “ugly oaf forcing your attentions on a handsome guy”.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Manila: The Philippine foreign minister has demanded in an expletive-laced message on Twitter that China’s vessels get out of disputed waters, marking the latest exchange in a war of words with Beijing over its activities in the South China Sea.

The comments on Monday by the frequently blunt Teodoro Locsin jnr follow Manila’s protests over what it calls the illegal presence of hundreds of Chinese boats inside the Philippines’ exclusive economic zone.

“China, my friend, how politely can I put it? Let me see… O…GET THE F--- OUT,” Locsin said in a tweet on his personal account.

“What are you doing to our friendship? You. Not us. We’re trying. You. You’re like an ugly oaf forcing your attentions on a handsome guy who wants to be a friend; not to father a Chinese province”, Locsin said.

Defence Secretary Delfin Lorenzana on Sunday rejected China’s demand that the Philippines end its patrols in the disputed region.

“While we acknowledge that China’s military capability is more advanced than ours, this does not prevent us from defending our national interests and our dignity as a people with all that we have,” Lorenzana said in a video message.
President Rodrigo Duterte, for the most part, has pursued warmer ties with China in exchange for Beijing’s promises of billions of dollars in investment, aid and loans.
While the Philippine leader still considers China “a good friend”, he said last week: “There are things that are not really subject to a compromise.”

 

[rederob]

Well I'm not disagreeing with you, because that is a waste of time, but just saying.

Given the many times your remarks have been proven wrong, I would agree with you.
Here's the Chinese law (their "Civil Code") you seem to want to discuss, which is off topic. Maybe you should take it to the general forum if you want to pursue it as again it shows from your links that you have no idea about what is different in China.