Hey All!
Ephesians 4:26-27
"In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.
Godbless!
Hi Julia,
Nice reasoned post there, well doneI disagree with you though, as I am not angry with bunyip simply wanting him to lay off making statements that imply David is being "ridiculous" or "naive", or lumping him in with "you and your kind".
I stick by my view that 'Ask, and you will receive', is a ridiculous quote . . . .
If it was simply a case of getting what you ask for, . . . .
Bunyip,
Scanning the globe, and from my own experience, I suspect your God (and David's) is more intent on freeing one from desire, rather than fulfilling every desire; afterall, the place is a bit of a mess isnt it!
So perhaps God (for lack of a better word), is more intent on a striping away, a peeling back of the layers, a relinquishing. Rather than an "adding to", rather than an "ask and you shall recieve".
And personally, I prefer the "stripping away model" rather than the "accumulation model"; "nothing" has a infintely greater freedom than "something".
Bunyip,
Scanning the globe, and from my own experience, I suspect your God (and David's) is more intent on freeing one from desire, rather than fulfilling every desire; afterall, the place is a bit of a mess isnt it!
So perhaps God (for lack of a better word), is more intent on a striping away, a peeling back of the layers, a relinquishing. Rather than an "adding to", rather than an "ask and you shall recieve".
And personally, I prefer the "stripping away model" rather than the "accumulation model"; "nothing" has a infintely greater freedom than "something".
It seemed to her that all of life was simply diminution and loss, the paring away by degrees of what had seemed necessary,the learning to do without.
Emotional Layers - The Onion Principle
By Chris Joscelyne
Some people are like a raw egg. They have a hard outer exterior, but once their shell is cracked or broken by a stranger, a workmate, a friend, a family member, or by a romantic partner, they start to fall apart.
Some people are like a jelly. They are soft, squishy and easily devoured. They have no emotional barriers and they are easily manipulated and used by others.
Some people are like an onion. Onions thrive emotionally because they have emotional layers and they know who can be allowed access to each layer … when, and under what circumstances.
Onions understand their layers and how much of their emotional selves they can reveal and share with others, without the risk of deep emotional hurt. This protects them, while allowing them to reveal and share their emotional layers in safety as they choose.
The Onion Principle
Layer 1 is the outer layer with smooth protective skin. Outside this layer is the world at large including the people we meet, do business with, work with, and with whom we have social contact.
Layer 2 is the first inner layer. This is for friends, pals and others we know and like.
Layer 3 is the next inner layer. This is for close family members, and close friends we know and trust.
Layer 4 is for romantic, trusting friendship (boyfriend/girlfriend)
Layer 5 is for embarking on a loving long-term relationship
Layer 6 is for the children if the onion is a parent
Layer 7 is for a total partnership of love and commitment
Layer 8 is the innermost layer (the place where your "inner child" lives). It is your most personal, private inner emotional space.
It is important to understand that an onion does not practice universal mistrust of others. That’s unhealthy. An onion is simply a discerning person who knows that emotional layers are precious, and should only be revealed and shared when empathy, trust and understanding have reached a point where it’s safe to go to the next layer with another person. etc
I'm still trying to work out why I was called "lacking in character" because I quoted that one about " moses burning up the desert in his triumph".
lol - hey now you're talking , Tim
God, Moses, Mad Max and Easy Rider all morphed together lol
I stick by my view that 'Ask, and you will receive', is a ridiculous quote. And I stick by my belief that David is naive in the extreme if he believes it.
If it was simply a case of getting what you ask for, then the city near where I live would not be in dire straits with regard to water shortage. The dams that supply this city are down to 11% capacity and if this summer doesn't produce a decent wet season to replenish our dams, the city could well run out of water.
Not that it affects me too much - I live on acreage 15 minutes from town and I have a very good bore with good quality drinking water, and also a thirty thousand litre rainwater tank that's never been below 70% capacity. No water shortage on my place.
But my point is simply this...... according to the 'ask and you will receive' belief, it should simply be a matter of asking God to top up our dams. Problem solved....he sends down the rain and a week or so later our dams are overflowing. Nice thought. Pity it's so far removed from reality....Christians have been holding 'prayers for rain' meetings in my city for years.
When I was 16 my grandfather, aged just over 60, was diagnosed with stomach cancer. He was a great bloke, a pillar of society, was involved in a number of community service organisations, was one of the elders and also was treasurer of his church, had been a devout Christian all his life, and not just on Sunday mornings either, he lived, breathed, and practised a Christian lifestyle every day.
All his family were practising Christians, including me at the time.
Now, according to the 'ask, and you will receive' quotation that David has given us from the bible, it should have been a simple matter to save my grandfather from his illness. All we had to do was to ask God to restore my grandfather to good health.
We, his Christian family, prayed long and hard, imploring God to save my grandfather' life. Guess what happened. Nothing. My grandfather's illness progressed and, to the extreme anguish of his family, he died a slow and torturous death.
I could give you a hundred more examples that disprove the 'ask, and you will receive' claim. But no need.....I'm sure you get the point, and I'm sure you now have some understanding of why I regard this belief as ridiculous, and why I regard people as naive and unrealistic if they believe it.
As for your comment of me lumping David in with 'you and your kind'.......
There are different kinds of Christians. On one end of the scale we have people like Duckman, who practices his Christian faith in a quiet, unobtrusive manner. We don't see him trying to influence our thinking by constantly quoting us bible verses that we didn't ask for. We don't see him making silly claims such as 'ask, and you will receive'. What we see instead is mature and balanced thinking from Duckman, rather than foolish, blind acceptance of everything the bible says.
I'd be extremely surprised if Duckman doesn't question, and disagree with, quite a bit of what the bible says.
On the other end of the scale we have a different kind of Christian...the kind who apparently is naive enough to accept as gospel truth everything the bible says, whose thinking is not mature enough to question some of the claims in the bible, who tries, by subtle and sometimes not so subtle means, to influence the thinking of others, who resorts to telling people they'll go to hell if they don't believe in God.
This is the category that David and those like him come into. Hence my referring to David as 'you and your kind'.
Can't argue with that one jono, lol...... Doesn't mean God hasn't answered the prayer though, might mean his answer was no .....
An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.
Amazing, this thread is still going...
Here is something interesting posted by Pat in the Big-Bang thread.Something I found while researching the cosmological constant-
Are we giving up because it's too complicated? or is there a creator?
This is a bit long but a good listen....
and another good listen...
Perhaps this belongs in the "is there a god" thread.
Yes, but not just outright harm, Wayne, also the irritating hypocrisy in so many cases.Often because of the emotional and sometimes physical harm inflicted by the church, people resort to militant and proselytic(?) atheism.
OK, this sounds interesting. Could you expand on this notion a bit?For instance, people are stuck with the notion that God must be a supernatural being, (or not at all). We expect supernatural phenomena to appear to "prove" God's existence. But what if God is entirely natural?
Absolutely agreed.Yes, but not just outright harm, Wayne, also the irritating hypocrisy in so many cases.
This is a tough one. As I tend to think in the abstract, sometimes I find it a little hard to put into words "exactly" what I'm thinking.OK, this sounds interesting. Could you expand on this notion a bit?
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