Bible Verse of the Day

Duckman#72 said:

Hi Wayne

Correct - and the place for such gatherings is usually referred to as ......"a Church".

"I will make them joyful in my house of prayer. Their holocausts and their sufferings will be accepted on my alter, for my house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples" Is 56:7

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Just to be a pedantic pain in the @rse :

Isaiah was written quite some time before the advent of Jesus, ergo, could not be referring to church. In fact it can only be referring to the Jewish Temple AKA Synagogue. In fact the etymological roots of "church" do not appear until around 300 AD.

As a point of order the greek used by the NT writers that has been translated into English as "church" is "ekklesia". This word at that point of time was not used to describe a routine place of worship, but as a special assembly for the purposes of voting or making decisions and was used for secular purposes originally eg a political meeting.

Therefore ekklesia can be a Christian assembly, but equally can be an assembly of silversmiths as was the case in Acts 19:32,39,41 where ekklesia was correctly translated as "assembly". Equally it can be an assembly of tiddlywinks players.

This puts the modern hierarchial church at odds with scripture as there is no biblical basis for it. Therefore it can be argued that most modern churches are apostate (without even getting into the idolatry debate).

A "real" Christian may therefore avoid "church" like the plague in favour of informal meetings of believers.

And of course we can go off at all sorts of tangents from here.

Duckman#72 said:

I totally agree with your interpretation Wayne. I was making the point that "going to Church" plays a central part to mainstream Christian faith regardless of whether it is St Paul's Cathedral or under a thorn tree in the Serengeti Plain. The common link is that they are meeting a group for the purpose of prayer as you established above.

(And one other thing - would people please not treat me as a religious crank just because I've quoted from the Bible. I know it is the fastest way to lose Forum Cred!!!)

Duckman

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So "going to church" is a misnomer, particularly if under a thorn tree.

(pedants rule, OK?)

BTW

The Bible is just a bunch of stuff written by various people and collated into a book by a committee of men.

Cheers

Hi,

A bible discussion usually is the bait I need to get involved, so here goes.

The following is based on my current understanding, which may or may not be 100% accurate.

"Hell" is an English word used at the time of the King James translation (1611) of the bible. It meant "covered" or "the unseen" or something like that. Translators used it in various parts of the bible translation. Jesus didn't walk around saying "Hell" etc.

In the bible, where the word "hell" is used, the original Greek or Hebrew text uses the word "grave" or refers to the city dump outside Jerusalem, which was set on fire occasionally to destroy the dead bodies and garbage.

When Jesus referred to "hell" in that context, and used the term "where the fire is not quenched" (most read it and straight away think, "oh, burning in flames forever, the fire never goes out..."). This is because the fire was not quenched in this place, it was left to burn itself out when it ran out of fuel (dead bodies etc). This is also the reference to "worms" and stuff in the scriptures.

I found this stuff out at a site called "Bible-truths", which I find interesting and thanks to the author of the site was able to expand my understanding of the bible. It's at http://bible-truths.com . Interesting article on tithing there as well.

Although he shares a different view on baptism than I do, most of his stuff seems to make sense and seems pretty solid.

If I can quote one scripture, it's this.

"Except a man be born of the water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

It really doesn't get much simpler than that. Man has a carnal mind that cannot comprehend the things of God. It's our natural state until we receive the mind of Christ through baptism of the Holy Ghost.

This is the baptism of the spirit Jesus spoke of. The born of the water is about being baptized in full submersion, as Jesus did, as every believer did in the bible.

Aiming to be informative and provide information only. Think Switzerland, with a heavy bias towards converting people to Christianity.

One thought. If God is a fair and just God (which he is according to the bible), then would he condemn a person who lived for, in most cases, less than a century, even the worst sinner, to be roasting and burning in red-hot (or white-hot) flames not for a term equal to his life (100 years) to "purge" him / her of sin, and not for 1000 years, 24/7, but for a million years, then another million years, then another.... forever, and ever, and ever, and...

Doesn't match the profile. Even in a courtroom, a mass murderer would never be sentenced to a flaming torture chamber of intense screaming pain forever and ever for his crimes of mass murder. Even the most just judge would never do it if he were able.

If he were sentenced to ONE dose of burning, he'd die and the suffering would be over, the judgement would be done. But for him to be burnt, then his flesh to regenerate so it could be burnt off again, and again....

Would a God of love do that to his creation, to be burnt forever and ever for a life of less than 100 years? If God is just, how could "hell" as most people know it even exist?

Greg.

wayneL said:

Just to be a pedantic pain in the @rse :

So "going to church" is a misnomer, particularly if under a thorn tree.

(pedants rule, OK?)

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Pedants rule!!

It was you who mentioned that a meeting under a thorn tree was considered a church - not me.

Anyway - why is it ok for you to interpret that "the church" can be a meeting of two or three people as per Matthew 18:20, but not OK for me to interpret "the church" as a house of prayer as per Isaiah? As per everything religion interpretation is everything......including the apostate position of modern religion.

Catch you later Wayne. Good talking to you.

Duckman

Duckman#72 said:

Pedants rule!!

It was you who mentioned that a meeting under a thorn tree was considered a church - not me.

Anyway - why is it ok for you to interpret that "the church" can be a meeting of two or three people as per Matthew 18:20, but not OK for me to interpret "the church" as a house of prayer as per Isaiah? As per everything religion interpretation is everything......including the apostate position of modern religion.

Catch you later Wayne. Good talking to you.

Duckman

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Of course it's OK, it's just discussion and mental exercise.

But cannot interpretation change after discussion?

I think it's great to debate over these things and a lot is learned by being logically "caught out". It causes one to think.

I can guarantee you that my ideas will be different in 10 years time as a result of such discussions.

The only thing detest is dogmatism. As that Paul nutter said to Timothy in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Test everything".

Cheers have a good night.

Hey All!

Sorry about not giving you a verse of the day lately, been so busy!

Will Post When i can!

Ephesians 4:26-27

"In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.

Godbless!

David123 said:

Hey All!

Sorry about not giving you a verse of the day lately, been so busy!

Will Post When i can!

Ephesians 4:26-27

"In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.

Godbless!

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In that case David, I guess we'll just have to try and struggle through without your verse of the day whenever you don't have time to post it....it'll be tough, but we'll do the best we can!

bunyip said:

In that case David, I guess we'll just have to try and struggle through without your verse of the day whenever you don't have time to post it....it'll be tough, but we'll do the best we can!

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And I don't usually have a good laugh on a Sunday night.

Classic.

David123 said:

Hey all!

Fear God Because -Romans 2:6 "He will judge everyone according to what they have done"!

Godbless!

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Really? Well at least judging people on their actions is better than judging them on whether they do or don't believe in him.

As to the 'fear God' bit....why should I? I've never done anything that would cause me to fear retribution from anyone.
I daresay most people are the same.

David123 said:

Hey All! How great is our God!

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How great is our God? Depends on your perspective I suppose.

The Jews can't have thought he was too great when he ignored their pleas for help and abandoned them, his own people, to the cruelty and persecution of the Nazis.
Some Jews abandoned God from them on, because he had abandoned them. Understandable when you think about it.

God doesn't appear too great when he adopts a 'couldn't care less' attitude to the hardship, death and destruction caused by extreme weather events such as cyclones, droughts, floods etc, and disasters such as earthquakes and tsunamis that kill thousands of people. These events are 'acts of God', are they not?

God doesn't appear too great when he stands idly by and watches hundreds of thousands of people die a torturous death from starvation in one of those African famines that we see so often on our news programmes.

Yes David, I don't doubt that God is great when seen though your eyes. Sure he's great if we attribute all the good things in the world to him, but absolve him from responsibility for the not so good. I mean, everyone is great if we only focus on their good points while ignoring their bad points.

And that, David, is exactly what you and your kind are doing. You get so carried away with your 'God is great' routine, that you can't see the forest for the trees.
You don't have the maturity to take a balanced and realistic viewpoint in relation to God.
Or maybe it's just that you're scared of him coming down hard on you if you mention his faults as well as his good points.
Or maybe you're just too starry-eyed and unrealistic to admit that he does have faults.

I really don't know what causes you to think as you do in relation to God. I'm not even sure if you know yourself.
But you're so far out of touch with reality that's it's a joke.

David123 said:

Hey all!

Matthew 7:7

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Godbless!

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Ask and it will be given to you
Unfortunately David, it just doesn't work that way. Not even you could be naive enough to believe otherwise.

seek and you will find
Yes, there's a fair bit of truth in this.

knock and the door will be opened to you
Sometimes, and sometimes not. At least it's not as far off the money as your first ridiculous quote.

bunyip said:

Ask and it will be given to you
Unfortunately David, it just doesn't work that way. Not even you could be naive enough to believe otherwise.

seek and you will find
Yes, there's a fair bit of truth in this.

knock and the door will be opened to you
Sometimes, and sometimes not. At least it's not as far off the money as your first ridiculous quote.

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Hey bunyip, how about you pull your head in if you can't respect someone's right to post a bible verse?

jonojpsg, ASF is a public forum. A forum is a place for discussion.
Don't you think that anything any of us post on such a public forum is therefore up for discussion?

If I post on, say, the ANZ thread that "this stock is going to go up 10% tomorrow", I will pretty smartly be told to justify this claim, and rightly so.

So if someone posts a statement from the Bible with which some other member doesn't agree, they probably need to expect that it will be challenged.

Instead of being angry with Bunyip, why not engage with him in an intelligent discussion as to the merits or otherwise of both your points of view?

Julia said:

jonojpsg, ASF is a public forum. A forum is a place for discussion.
Don't you think that anything any of us post on such a public forum is therefore up for discussion?

If I post on, say, the ANZ thread that "this stock is going to go up 10% tomorrow", I will pretty smartly be told to justify this claim, and rightly so.

So if someone posts a statement from the Bible with which some other member doesn't agree, they probably need to expect that it will be challenged.

Instead of being angry with Bunyip, why not engage with him in an intelligent discussion as to the merits or otherwise of both your points of view?

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Hi Julia,
Nice reasoned post there, well done I disagree with you though, as I am not angry with bunyip simply wanting him to lay off making statements that imply David is being "ridiculous" or "naive", or lumping him in with "you and your kind".

jonojpsg said:

Hey bunyip, how about you pull your head in if you can't respect someone's right to post a bible verse?

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I'm very tempted to suggest that you follow your own advice and pull your head in. But I won't, because by doing so I'd be lowering myself to your level. I've always believed that people of character should be capable of expressing their views without resorting to rudeness, abruptness, and the generally crude standard of communication that you've displayed.

I absolutely respect the right of David and anyone else to post a bible verse. Just as you should respect the right of myself and everyone else to be frank with David by telling him if we think he's being naive, threatening (you'll all go to hell if you don't believe in my god), unrealistic, offensive, immature, starry-eyed or whatever.

This is a public forum with the objective of encouraging discussion on a wide range of issues. Such discussion will at different times take the form of debate, criticism, praise, endorsement, sometimes anger and disgust.
If that doesn't suit you then I suggest you stop frequenting public forums.

well i dont care what any of youse say about these verses , im still trying to get my head around becoming a virgin so i can get into heaven !

bunyip said:

This is a public forum with the objective of encouraging discussion on a wide range of issues. Such discussion will at different times take the form of debate, criticism, praise, endorsement, sometimes anger and disgust.

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Well said Bunyip.

Unfortunately some people get on here and their so called "discussion" only takes the form of derision, mockery, contempt and ridicule. Doesn't leave much room for the "encouragement of discussion". Hopefully a heap of ASF contributors will read your post.

Duckman

bunyip said:

In that case David, I guess we'll just have to try and struggle through without your verse of the day whenever you don't have time to post it....it'll be tough, but we'll do the best we can!

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just thought i,d even it out , personally thinks that post sounds like mockery too me but hey what would i know im just a nun with a bad habit

Duckman#72 said:

Well said Bunyip.

Unfortunately some people get on here and their so called "discussion" only takes the form of derision, mockery, contempt and ridicule. Doesn't leave much room for the "encouragement of discussion". Hopefully a heap of ASF contributors will read your post.

Duckman

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Thanks Duckman

And might I say I admire the fact that you, a Christian, don't try to ram your Christian message down everyone's throat, as some of them try to do. Your views are always balanced and sensible, and your posts are always a pleasure to read. While I don't share your Christian beliefs, I nevertheless feel that you and I share similar values and we generally think along similar lines.

For the record, I'm a former Christian myself. I was brought up in a Christian home, went to Sunday school and then in later life, church every week without fail. After leaving school I attended bible classes because I chose to do so. And I wasn't just a Sunday morning Christian either....I practised a Christian lifestyle every day of the week. In fact I pretty much still do, except that I no longer believe it was God who created the world, and I no longer swallow such Christian lines as......
* You only have to ask, and you will receive.
* You only have to place your trust in God, and everything will be fine.
* All the good things in the world are attributable to God, whereas the other things that are not so good, we don't mention God when we talk about them.

And so on and so on. As someone who prides himself on possessing a reasonable level of intelligence and common sense, I just wasn't gullible enough to go on believing all that stuff.

It matters not whom you follow nor those who follow them. The path they lead you to, if it be true an honest, for all just men may then enter my Kingdom. In telling you this, many who would have you believe they lead you to me, do so, despite their burden and they may not enter, even though they have lead you to me.