Australian Politics General...

[moXJO]

So silence on the report today re Robo Debt…. Crickets ??

Already said it was a scum move a million times. And about scomo. Not much else to say.

 

[IFocus]

Already said it was a scum move a million times. And about scomo. Not much else to say.

More than that it’s just a continuation of what Coalition governments do attacking the weakest people in our society, taking penalty rates from the lowest paid etc.

Now of course its denying Aboriginals.

Also note the lack of 20 pages of outrage from the supporters. ?

 

[moXJO]

More than that it’s just a continuation of what Coalition governments do attacking the weakest people in our society, taking penalty rates from the lowest paid etc.

Now of course its denying Aboriginals.

Also note the lack of 20 pages of outrage from the supporters. ?

There's a large portion of aboriginals that don't support the Voice.

Labor is still aggressively collecting dole debts.
Now they attempt to keep you on it.
Albo has mass immigration which has made the rent crisis worse.
They don't seem to be actually helping the poor at the moment. I'm seeing more and more slide into poverty

 

[sptrawler]

More than that it’s just a continuation of what Coalition governments do attacking the weakest people in our society, taking penalty rates from the lowest paid etc.

Now of course its denying Aboriginals.

Also note the lack of 20 pages of outrage from the supporters. ?

The problem is with a rusted on one eyed perspective, is that it leads to only one side of an equation being presented, Governments aren't only there to look after the welfare side of the economy, they are there to look after the taxpaying side of the economy also.
Without one, there wouldn't be the other, so that's why a balanced objective view has to be taken IMO.

The coalition blew the implementation of a software based data collection and cross referencing system and they will no doubt pay for poor overseeing of the implementation, that is good because it brings the issue of responsibility and accountability and where it rests to a head.

To think that another more improved computer based welfare system wont be used, is also ignoring reality and it maybe labor that introduce it who knows, but because of the failure of Robodebt a more vigorous and thorough check of its workings will be done which is good.

To say only the coalition attack the weakest in society is also wrong, labor also do it, as has recently been announced they are raising the age that the single mother child payment stops, from 8 years old to 14 years old, it was Julia Gillard that reduced it from 16 down to 8 years old.

This impoverished single mothers who have to cloth feed and house children and send them to school, kids between 8 and 14 are expensive to feed, cloth, house and pay school fees, so as I say there is little point in basing your voting preference on historical myths.

Bill Shorten is currently hammering the NDIS, which it indeed needs to have happen, however if the coalition was doing it the media coverage would be far different, as we all know. It would be about attacking those who can't defend themselves, rather than about exposing those that are rorting the system.

Like I said, IMO Governments are there to represent all not just pet areas of the population and is the very reason they need to be changed when they reach their use by date and they all reach their use by date.

 

[IFocus]

The problem is with a rusted on one eyed perspective, is that it leads to only one side of an equation being presented, Governments aren't only there to look after the welfare side of the economy, they are there to look after the taxpaying side of the economy also.
Without one, there wouldn't be the other, so that's why a balanced objective view has to be taken IMO.

The coalition blew the implementation of a software based data collection and cross referencing system and they will no doubt pay for poor overseeing of the implementation, that is good because it brings the issue of responsibility and accountability and where it rests to a head.

To think that another more improved computer based welfare system wont be used, is also ignoring reality and it maybe labor that introduce it who knows, but because of the failure of Robodebt a more vigorous and thorough check of its workings will be done which is good.

To say only the coalition attack the weakest in society is also wrong, labor also do it, as has recently been announced they are raising the age that the single mother child payment stops, from 8 years old to 14 years old, it was Julia Gillard that reduced it from 16 down to 8 years old.

This impoverished single mothers who have to cloth feed and house children and send them to school, kids between 8 and 14 are expensive to feed, cloth, house and pay school fees, so as I say there is little point in basing your voting preference on historical myths.

Bill Shorten is currently hammering the NDIS, which it indeed needs to have happen, however if the coalition was doing it the media coverage would be far different, as we all know. It would be about attacking those who can't defend themselves, rather than about exposing those that are rorting the system.

Like I said, IMO Governments are there to represent all not just pet areas of the population and is the very reason they need to be changed when they reach their use by date and they all reach their use by date.

Robo Debt was known to be illegal from the get go and aimed solely at the weakest in our society afraid there is no defence.
Same goes for the penalty rates plus too many more to mention.

 

[moXJO]

Robo Debt was known to be illegal from the get go and aimed solely at the weakest in our society afraid there is no defence.
Same goes for the penalty rates plus too many more to mention.

Who is defending robo debt?
Isn't Labor raising the pension age as well?
Bringing in cheap labour from overseas to lower wages.

 

[sptrawler]

Who is defending robo debt?
Isn't Labor raising the pension age as well?
Bringing in cheap labour from overseas to lower wages.

Apparently not, it is a right and wrong left or right, black or white society now, there is no middle ground any more.
It is what you are told, or you are wrong and they wonder why they are struggling to get traction, just another phase in history.
Interesting that the penalty rate issue, carries more emphasis than the single mother pension, I guess it depends who is most affected, or more to the point how fanatical you are dictates how important it is.
Funnily enough it is usually the fanatacism that moves middle Australia away from Labor, as can be seen even on the forum, I see strong Labor supporters being attacked because they arent conforming to the hard left.
It always ends up badly, from my observations over the years.
The only difference now is the rich elites, are now the hard left Labor supporters and the blue collar base is moving more and more right, affluence I guess.

 

[IFocus]

Who is defending robo debt?

Where is the outrage?

Isn't Labor raising the pension age as well?
Bringing in cheap labour from overseas to lower wages.

The problem with raising the pension is the Coalition let the banks and retail super funds steal punters funds again it’s the bottom end that got hammered

 

[sptrawler]

Another Country with a constitutional monarchy system of government similar to ours, that also works as intended.

Dutch government collapses over immigration policy

Already home to one of Europe’s toughest immigration policies, the crisis was triggered by a push to further reduce the inflow of asylum seekers.

www.smh.com.au

Amsterdam: The Dutch government has collapsed after failing to reach a deal on restricting immigration, triggering new elections at the end of the year.

The crisis was triggered by a push by Prime Minister Mark Rutte’s conservative VVD party to limit the flow of asylum seekers to the Netherlands, which two of his four-party government coalition refused to support.

“It’s no secret that the coalition partners have differing opinions about immigration policy. Today we unfortunately have to conclude that those differences have become insurmountable. Therefore I will tender the resignation of the entire cabinet to the king,” Rutte said in a televised news conference.
Tensions came to a head this week when Rutte demanded support for a proposal to limit the entrance of children of war refugees who are already in the Netherlands and to make families wait at least two years before they can be united.

This latest proposal went too far for the small Christian Union and liberal D66, causing a stalemate.
Rutte’s coalition will stay on as a caretaker government until a new administration is formed after new elections, a process which in the fractured Dutch political landscape usually takes months.

 

[Smurf1976]

Where is the outrage?

In the context of this forum I think it's already been said. The findings in regards to Robodebt are a bit like the conviction of a criminal years after the crime, everyone's already had their say.

In the context of broader society the same applies but I think also the reality that the general public has become heavily aligned with "their" side of politics at a time when all major parties have radically shifted away from their original focus.

Labor, Liberal, Greens - none of those today live up to what their names imply. Go back a few decades and they did but not anymore. That's part of the problem - nobody's really representing labour, capital or the environment these days, they're sidelines at best to parties that have gone off into orbit.

 

[Knobby22]

As they should be, if it is shownt to be criminal or illegal.
I know it cost me $6k, but our fault for being honest and sending in information, that will never happen again.
[/QUOTE

In the context of this forum I think it's already been said. The findings in regards to Robodebt are a bit like the conviction of a criminal years after the crime, everyone's already had their say.

In the context of broader society the same applies but I think also the reality that the general public has become heavily aligned with "their" side of politics at a time when all major parties have radically shifted away from their original focus.

Labor, Liberal, Greens - none of those today live up to what their names imply. Go back a few decades and they did but not anymore. That's part of the problem - nobody's really representing labour, capital or the environment these days, they're sidelines at best to parties that have gone off into orbit.

If some public servantsgo to jail .
Let that be a lesson tonthe others.,,,

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting afternoon, no happy hour at the pub, went to the mates place and spent a few hours with him and his mid 40's son.
Very switched on kid, a couple of properties, day trading, no kids.
When we had settled into a couple of EH Taylors and beers, I asked him if he watches mainstream news, or streamed news and what he and his mates generally chat about regarding politics.
His response we don't watch news, we watch social media and we don't believe politicians, so interesting times IMO.

 

[moXJO]

Where is the outrage?



The problem with raising the pension is the Coalition let the banks and retail super funds steal punters funds again it’s the bottom end that got hammered

He got voted out.

 

[moXJO]

Interesting afternoon, no happy hour at the pub, went to the mates place and spent a few hours with him and his mid 40's son.
Very switched on kid, a couple of properties, day trading, no kids.
When we had settled into a couple of EH Taylors and beers, I asked him if he watches mainstream news, or streamed news and what he and his mates generally chat about regarding politics.
His response we don't watch news, we watch social media and we don't believe politicians, so interesting times IMO.

Social media influencers are being paid by politicians these days to push their bs. If anything it's worse than before.

Interesting that Zuckerberg has opened a heavily censored twitter clone before the US election.

 

[sptrawler]

Social media influencers are being paid by politicians these days to push their bs. If anything it's worse than before.

Interesting that Zuckerberg has opened a heavily censored twitter clone before the US election.

Obviously someone is getting nervous.
I think it will be interesting as the manipulation of media narrative is becoming so obvious, that everyone is becoming sceptical of all media content, it may well backfire.
The Dutch election will be interesting as to public opinion I think.
People are getting fed up, so a backlash is building IMO.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/30/far-right-on-the-march-europe-growing-taste-for-control-and-order&ved=2ahUKEwjzrbGhov__AhW8jVYBHfoCBR0QFnoECEoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3wkhVvSG-Bg8d50TJ1wIpd

 

[mullokintyre]

Now that some of the dust has settled and some of the political point scorers have plastered the airwaves, the in depth analysis of who did what is starting to come out.
From Evil Murdoch Press

The major villains in the Robodebt saga have gained plenty of attention. But nobody should forget that this fiasco might never have happened but for two other factors.
The first is that weak government lawyers averted their eyes as their agencies inflicted unlawful practices on vulnerable people.

The second factor is just as bad: the systems aimed at holding government legal services to an acceptable standard simply did not work.

The Administrative Review Council had been de-funded and as a result there was no high-level entity charged with advising the Attorney-General on the overall integrity of the administrative law system. That needs to change.

The Office of Legal Services Coordination, which is supposed to be the government’s internal regulator of its own legal services, still exists but the report of Royal Commissioner Catherine Holmes describes it as ineffective and disheartening. That also needs to change.

Those government lawyers who failed to discharge their professional responsibilities might not have the name recognition of former ministers. But that too could be about to change.
The worst of these people seem to have been included in the sealed chapter of the commission’s report which recommends further civil and criminal action.

There could be no other explanation for the decision to include the ACT Law Society as one of the organisations that will receive referrals based on that chapter. That suggests the worst of these lawyers are at risk, at a minimum, of disciplinary proceedings over what they failed to do when confronted with unlawful conduct by the agencies they were supposed to advise.

Holmes has devoted a separate chapter to the way some of these lawyers conducted themselves. It makes for depressing reading.

But there is also a smattering of heroes in this extraordinary report and one of them is legal academic Terry Carney, whose work on the Robodebt scandal is repeatedly endorsed by Holmes.


While some lawyers were securing their careers by placating their bosses and defending the indefensible, Carney was doing his best to set things right.

On March 8, 2017, when he was a part-time member of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, he blew the whistle on Robodebt’s unlawful basis.

Holmes says Carney was the first to hand down a decision giving reasons for concluding that Centrelink was recovering welfare debts using a technique known as income averaging that had no basis in law.

There were eventually hundreds of similar rulings.

The Department of Human Services never lodged an appeal against Carney’s original decision, or against four more rulings in which he hammered away at the unlawful basis for this scheme.

Human Services failed to report Carney’s decisions to the OLSC, which was a breach of its obligation to report significant legal issues as soon as possible.

Instead, Holmes writes that the department simply ignored Carney’s rulings and continued its use of income averaging despite the fact that Carney had repeatedly made clear that this was unlawful.

His original decision was handed down in March 2017. In September of that year his appointment at the AAT was not renewed.
After almost 40 years he was given his marching orders six months after producing the first decision that made it clear that Robodebt was based on unlawful conduct.

So who makes the decisions about AAT members? From The Attorney Generals department

​

Vacancies in the AAT will be filled in the following manner:

Appointments and reappointments of judicial members​

1. The appointment and reappointment of judicial members will be made following consultation by the Attorney-General with the AAT President and the relevant Chief Justice.

And who was the Ag at that time?
Christian Porter. So all the Christian Porter haters may hav e been hating him for all the wrong reasons.

She notes that Carney was removed after ruling five times against Robodebt. She also notes that the position of Renee Leon as secretary of Services Australia was abolished after she gave a direction to her department to stop using income averaging.

But Holmes concludes that there was insufficient evidence to draw an inference that Carney’s removal was an attempt to prevent further scrutiny of the scheme.

Carney takes a similarly cautious approach: “It’s always easy when you are speculating to come to the wrong conclusion.

“For whatever reason, I was not reappointed. But it did the public a favour because it meant I was able to publish.

“By March of the following year I would have had to resign anyway. I could not have just sat there giving decisions that had no impact. Public servants were not appealing against the decisions. And the reason? Well they were not saying decisions by Carney and other members were wrong. They were just not appealing it to the next level.

“Why would that be? Well if they did, it would become public and the reasons would become public that would be prejudicial to the scheme. The obligation on lawyers is to check whether things are illegal or not,” he said.

Chris Merrit is lookimg at all this from a purely kegal perspective, as he finishes with

Despite losing his AAT post and having his rulings ignored, Carney was right all along. But vindication is not enough.

Weak lawyers survived inside the bureaucracy due to the systemic failings identified by Holmes. Two reforms stand out: The OLSC needs an overhaul and the Administrative Review Council should be re-established.

The sealed section of the Holmes report will be the most intriguing.
Thats where all the names of those being recomended for some form of sanction will be found.
I wonder if Porters name will be one of them?
Mick

 

[wayneL]

Swing to Libs in Fadden by- election.

Interesting eh?

 

[sptrawler]

Swing to Libs in Fadden by- election.

Interesting eh?

Middle Australia is getting scared?
LNP 10.6%, interesting to see the swing when the dust settles.

 

[moXJO]

Labor look like sht at this point. Interest rate rises, expensive cost of living, now people complaining about tax returns. Meanwhile pandering to overseas interests.

 

[SirRumpole]

Middle Australia is getting scared?
LNP 10.6%, interesting to see the swing when the dust settles.

Wonder how much The Voice plays in that ? The Libs campaign was about crime, not that its all down to the indigenous .