Australian Politics General...

[Sean K]

Well it certainly appears, that some are trying to put a bit of space between themselves and him.

Starting to look like a huge train wreck IMO, if I was him I would be claiming mental health issues, but I'm no expert.

I wonder if sportsbet has a book running on this?

It must be a very nervous time for those facing a Lehrmann defamation claim IMO.

I think this will definitely be made into a mini series at a later date.

The claimant walks away with a payout, the accused fights on to prove innocence and claim compensation, the wreckage tries to mitigate the damage.
What a classic. ?

Good on him for actually turning up. He's been flogged.

Lehrmann is going to make a pretty penny out of this.

But, how the hell did Higgins get a payout with no proof of anything?

The first job of the Labor corruption body should be against Labor.

 

[sptrawler]

Good on him for actually turning up. He's been flogged.

Well if there has been any interference and conspiracy in the case, it is starting to become obvious where it came from and it doesn't appear to be the Liberal party.
Some people are starting to look extremely biased and as long as Lehrmann was found guilty, it didn't appear to matter whether he was or wasn't as long as he was convicted IMO.

Bruce Lehrmann prosecutor concedes he should have made ‘political conspiracy’ backtrack clearer, inquiry hears

Shane Drumgold admits he should have clarified that he no longer held those views

www.theguardian.com

 

[sptrawler]

Well if the lawyer thinks that Wilkinson suffered at the hands of the media, she should spare a thought for Lehrmann IMO.
It's starting to look like Drumgold is getting dragged out from under the bus, just so he can be chucked under again. ?
Weren't Wilkinson and Drumgold meant to be working to help Brittany Higgins? Jeez when friends fall out.
Drumgold says that the media misrepresents issues, it is o.k if the misrepresentation works in your favour I guess. ?

Lehrmann DPP targets media in grilling by Lisa Wilkinson’s lawyer

Lisa Wilkinson’s lawyer said her client suffered “destruction” at the hands of the media for a speech about Brittany Higgins, that caused Bruce Lehrmann’s rape trial to be delayed.

www.theage.com.au

Lisa Wilkinson’s lawyer has accused the ACT’s top prosecutor, Shane Drumgold, SC, of providing irrational responses to her questions during a lengthy exchange in which he claimed every media outlet misreported Bruce Lehrmann’s rape trial.

Defamation lawyer Sue Chrysanthou, SC, told an inquiry into authorities’ handling of the case that her client, a high-profile journalist, suffered “utter destruction” at the hands of the media for a Logies speech about Lehrmann’s accuser, Brittany Higgins, that caused the trial to be delayed.

However, he said there had been “nothing but misreporting in this matter”, referring to the case more broadly.

“Every media outlet is misrepresenting the entire trial,” Drumgold said. “I simply couldn’t change the flow of the media.”

 

[SirRumpole]

Well if the lawyer thinks that Wilkinson suffered at the hands of the media, she should spare a thought for Lehrmann IMO.
It's starting to look like Drumgold is getting dragged out from under the bus, just so he can be chucked under again. ?
Weren't Wilkinson and Drumgold meant to be working to help Brittany Higgins? Jeez when friends fall out.
Drumgold says that the media misrepresents issues, it is o.k if the misrepresentation works in your favour I guess. ?

Lehrmann DPP targets media in grilling by Lisa Wilkinson’s lawyer

Lisa Wilkinson’s lawyer said her client suffered “destruction” at the hands of the media for a speech about Brittany Higgins, that caused Bruce Lehrmann’s rape trial to be delayed.

www.theage.com.au

Lisa Wilkinson’s lawyer has accused the ACT’s top prosecutor, Shane Drumgold, SC, of providing irrational responses to her questions during a lengthy exchange in which he claimed every media outlet misreported Bruce Lehrmann’s rape trial.

Defamation lawyer Sue Chrysanthou, SC, told an inquiry into authorities’ handling of the case that her client, a high-profile journalist, suffered “utter destruction” at the hands of the media for a Logies speech about Lehrmann’s accuser, Brittany Higgins, that caused the trial to be delayed.

However, he said there had been “nothing but misreporting in this matter”, referring to the case more broadly.

“Every media outlet is misrepresenting the entire trial,” Drumgold said. “I simply couldn’t change the flow of the media.”

It's getting too complex for my simple mind.

 

[mullokintyre]

However, he said there had been “nothing but misreporting in this matter”, referring to the case more broadly.

“Every media outlet is misrepresenting the entire trial,” Drumgold said. “I simply couldn’t change the flow of the media.”

Drumgold has pointed out a fairly intereting point with the media.
In the article from the AGE, it says Inquiry chair Walter Sofronoff said “this is a trial that has been covered more intensely than anything since the Lindy Chamberlain case”.
I would have thought that the George Pell trial may have equalled the media attention, but lets not quibble.
I would say that certainly the Chamberlain Case, the Pell case, and now the Lehrman case have been three of the biggest media frenzy reporting legal cases in the last 50 years.
In the case of the first two, both were found guilty initially then overturned either when proper evidence was presented on appeal, or just on appeal itself.
The Lehrman case got abandoned, but if we believe what Sofranoff said, all but one of the Jurors would have found him guilty.
We will never know if he would have succeeded or not in a appeal trial.
The question is, are the media guilty of preventing some defendants ever getting a fair trial?
And these are just three of the thousands of cases before the legal system.
There are a lot of big egos in the Media, almost as many as in the legal profession.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

It's getting too complex for my simple mind.

It certainly is and it will be very interesting when the defamation case is brought to trail, who is responsible for what if anything was said is becoming more and more convoluted, 'you never said I shouldn't have said it, but I inferred it, well I didn't understand it'. ?
I'm with you, it's already complex and we haven't even got to the, 'what was said' part.?

 

[Smurf1976]

I see that Tasmania now has a minority government following the resignation of two MP's from the Liberal Party.

So it seems at least possible that the last domino may be about to fall for the Liberals nationally.

The Liberals really do need to be razed and reformed from the ground up.

 

[wayneL]

I see that Tasmania now has a minority government following the resignation of two MP's from the Liberal Party.

So it seems at least possible that the last domino may be about to fall for the Liberals nationally.

The Liberals really do need to be razed and reformed from the ground up.

100% agree. However, i do not think the electorate is mature enough for that at this time.

Reformed? Yes!

But what shape would that take? What would be their platform? Who would be the leaders?

Would people have the cajones to support such a movement?

I doubt there are feasible answers to the above, it will require our country to be FUBAR before any of the above could be considered.... Well I guess that is actually in progress.

 

[sptrawler]

I think Australia is imploding from the inside out and the result wont be pretty.
The problem with affluence and people not experiencing real hardship, is they become complacent about what they actually have and therefore think that it follows they deserve more.
This isn't going to end well IMO.
There is a reason the U.K wasn't invaded by Germany twice in the 20th century and it wasn't because there was 30km of water between Europe and them.
There was a reason all the Australian ANZACS who fought in WW1, were volunteers.
It's called guts, loyalty and a belief you are one nation, that ideology has certainly gone down the toilet with the guts and self scarifice.

Great show of the emotional connection U.K people have for each other by Barnsy IMO. Absolute Australian national treasure and just another pommie kid that came here, but still has that burning heart that made Australia great.
Shame it is dying IMO, it would be nice if we could instill the same spirit into todays Australia, that we had in 1914 or even 1960's.

 

[Smurf1976]

I doubt there are feasible answers to the above, it will require our country to be FUBAR before any of the above could be considered.... Well I guess that is actually in progress.

I think Australia is imploding from the inside out and the result wont be pretty.

What we're seeing is I think an illustration of why adversity is necessary.

There hasn't been a proper recession since the early-1990's and that means nobody under age ~45 has any real comprehension of one. Anything since then has been a "technical" recession at most but it didn't come with the usual misery associated with one.

So we've got a pretty decent portion of the population, and quite a few MP's now, who simply have no idea of what tough times actually involve.

 

[mullokintyre]

What we're seeing is I think an illustration of why adversity is necessary.

There hasn't been a proper recession since the early-1990's and that means nobody under age ~45 has any real comprehension of one. Anything since then has been a "technical" recession at most but it didn't come with the usual misery associated with one.

So we've got a pretty decent portion of the population, and quite a few MP's now, who simply have no idea of what tough times actually involve.

I am fairlly sure they will get a decent lesson soon enough ....
Mick

 

[Dona Ferentes]

"New Zealanders are so poor many of their children have to sleep in the boxes the TV came in" (paraphrasing)

David Lange .. 1980s PM.

 

[sptrawler]

"New Zealanders are so poor many of their children have to sleep in the boxes the TV came in" (paraphrasing)

David Lange .. 1980s PM.

When I went to NZ in the 1990's they certainly didn't appear to rolling in money, most of the young people I spoke to had three jobs.

 

[StockyGuy]

While everyone's being so cheery, let's not forget that we would be on a relatively quick road to national non-existence based on birth rate, if you took out immigration and oldies sticking around longer. Fertility rate of 1.7 in 2021 and 1.59 for 2020 - https://aifs.gov.au/research/facts-and-figures/births-australia-2023 .

It's much worse in some other parts of the world, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate .

Sooo often the woman on the right-hand side of the IQ distribution curve will delay and delay and delay, then if she beats the buzzer she MIGHT be able to produce one live child; good chance said child is on "the spectrum", has lots of allergies, is gender fluid and such like.

 

[SirRumpole]

While everyone's being so cheery, let's not forget that we would be on a relatively quick road to national non-existence based on birth rate, if you took out immigration and oldies sticking around longer. Fertility rate of 1.7 in 2021 and 1.59 for 2020 - https://aifs.gov.au/research/facts-and-figures/births-australia-2023 .

It's much worse in some other parts of the world, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate .

Sooo often the woman on the right-hand side of the IQ distribution curve will delay and delay and delay, then if she beats the buzzer she MIGHT be able to produce one live child; good chance said child is on "the spectrum", has lots of allergies, is gender fluid and such like.

Why would young people have kids if they can't afford a house to raise them in ?

The human race is like any other race, they breed when conditions are good (unless in Africa where they don't have access to contraception).

If people want to lift the birth rate then they have to make it economically attractive to have children which means reducing housing costs and increasing parenting benefits.

 

[StockyGuy]

Why would young people have kids if they can't afford a house to raise them in ?

The human race is like any other race, they breed when conditions are good (unless in Africa where they don't have access to contraception).

If people want to lift the birth rate then they have to make it economically attractive to have children which means reducing housing costs and increasing parenting benefits.

I agree on the first point; planning and delayed gratification are, ironically, an indicator that one's reproduction would typically uplift society.

Second point: it's debatable, Japan started its decline in fertility long before the contraceptive pill was available there. Maybe it's not so bad if the world all reduced fertility across the board; but if it's not across the board, your more prolific neighbours will eventually just waltz in and take over the joint after a few generations of half as many kids being born each time with endless wards of geriatrics to look after.

Your third point; I understand such strategies often only make folks bring forward children they were going to have anyway. However Hungary has apparently moved the needle with its extreme incentivisation efforts, but it's still below replacement rate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_policy_in_Hungary . I don't know what the solution is.

But in the end national extinction may not be bother you or many people. It doesn't bother many in Japan - they're probably expecting more of a robot-assisted future; their being not typically so keen on mass immigration.

Anyways, it's been a bit on my mind after watching my man Jordan rap with a data scientist regarding his doco on the topic - .

Watch Part 1 of the Documentary

Watch Part 1 of the Documentary is a Space in Birthgap∙org. Join us to share your tips, tricks and stories with other members.

www.birthgap.org

 

[SirRumpole]

I agree on the first point; planning and delayed gratification are, ironically, an indicator that one's reproduction would typically uplift society.

Second point: it's debatable, Japan started its decline in fertility long before the contraceptive pill was available there. Maybe it's not so bad if the world all reduced fertility across the board; but if it's not across the board, your more prolific neighbours will eventually just waltz in and take over the joint after a few generations of half as many kids being born each time with endless wards of geriatrics to look after.

Your third point; I understand such strategies often only make folks bring forward children they were going to have anyway. However Hungary has apparently moved the needle with its extreme incentivisation efforts, but it's still below replacement rate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_policy_in_Hungary . I don't know what the solution is.

But in the end national extinction may not be bother you or many people. It doesn't bother many in Japan - they're probably expecting more of a robot-assisted future; their being not typically so keen on mass immigration.

Anyways, it's been a bit on my mind after watching my man Jordan rap with a data scientist regarding his doco on the topic - .

Watch Part 1 of the Documentary

Watch Part 1 of the Documentary is a Space in Birthgap∙org. Join us to share your tips, tricks and stories with other members.

www.birthgap.org

Agree with most of your post.

The population density in Japan may be a deterrent to breeding, people are living in shoeboxes as it is without trying to bring up kids in that environment.

 

[sptrawler]

If people want to lift the birth rate then they have to make it economically attractive to have children which means reducing housing costs and increasing parenting benefits.

Parenting benefits, were canned by the anti middle class welfare lobby, the ones who are now complaining about immigration. ?

We just need to put more money into medical research, so that men can have babies as well, then it solves the trans debate as well.
Two birds one stone on so many levels, trans guys and gay couples could have babies, they would have similar genetic makeup as women so sports advantage would be nullified.
We just have to get the people who design the fast growing chooks, for the take away industry, to get onto it.

 

[sptrawler]

On the subject of two birds and one stone, do we really need a 'voice', when they are actually getting a bigger one with the birth rate?
It's an interesting subject, giving a growing sector of the population, special political rights.
If the population growth rate stays on trend, and increases by 23% every 5 years, it should be an interesting number in 2050.
Back of a napkin about 11,000,000, which if the population is 35 million as predicted by the Government, it gives that sector a very big say.
Ah speculation and statistics, all good fun.

There were 309,996 registered births in 2021, an increase of 15,627 (5.3%) from 2020. For all Australian women, the total fertility rate was 1.70 births per woman. For Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women, the total fertility rate was 2.34 births per woman.

As at 30 June 2021 there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. This is an increase of 185,600 people (23.2%) since 30 June 2016.

 

[SirRumpole]

On the subject of two birds and one stone, do we really need a 'voice', when they are actually getting a bigger one with the birth rate?
It's an interesting subject, giving a growing sector of the population, special political rights.
If the population growth rate stays on trend, and increases by 23% every 5 years, it should be an interesting number in 2050.
Back of a napkin about 11,000,000, which if the population is 35 million as predicted by the Government, it gives that sector a very big say.
Ah speculation and statistics, all good fun.

There were 309,996 registered births in 2021, an increase of 15,627 (5.3%) from 2020. For all Australian women, the total fertility rate was 1.70 births per woman. For Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women, the total fertility rate was 2.34 births per woman.

As at 30 June 2021 there were 984,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, representing 3.8% of the total Australian population. This is an increase of 185,600 people (23.2%) since 30 June 2016.

There are some implications there but I'd better not say more in case some become offended.