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What rubbish! I broke one of my cardinal rules. Never argue with a fool. It won't happen again.
Calliope, I didn't back down... on the contrary you ran out of rational puff with your "pull" (akin to your Pen-nouse from The Abbott thread) argument. There is an obvious connotation there, but one does not need to explain what is obvious.
While on dirty connotations, what if you visited a prostitute and got say Gonorrhea (an undesirable effect from your common sense idea of having a quick excursion into foreign territory) shortly after. You would say the prostitute caused your disease. If some years later you found you had HIV, (an effect that takes much longer to manifest) would the prostitute not still be the cause, regardless of whatever other push or pull effects you did?
If they want a better life, they should work (and fight if necessary) to build a better life in their homelands, like our forebears did, rather than take the easier option of coming here and expecting us to accommodate them all, but then I suspect this is really all part of the Muslim's long game of Islamising the world.?
When has America invaded or disrupted Iran? Even if it had, how does that place responsibility on Australia?Did you actually read what Whiskers said ? He was talking about the effects of American foreign policy in disrupting the countries they invaded ie Iraq, Afganistan as well the surrounding areas ie Iran.
Easy for us to say, having never done any of those things.
No, it’s not our fault that people in other countries experience hardship. Yes something should be done to make these people have the opportunities and standard of living we enjoy without having to be smuggled around the world.
But the reality is, if I’m a guy living in the back blocks of Syria with a government willing to use chemical weapons on its own people and with little hope for a better future, I’m also going to do whatever it takes to make a better life for me and my loved ones. I doubt you or anyone else here would feel any different in the same situation.
What does illegal immigration have to do with religion anyway? What if they were persecuted Christians from Egypt? Would you feel any different?
Sure. But we should also be careful to not assume that those looking for a better life are looking for a better life that does not include work.But let's not confuse the genuine refugees with economic asylum seekers who simply want a lifetime with everything provided and where they do not have to work.
When has America invaded or disrupted Iran? Even if it had, how does that place responsibility on Australia?
One could ask the same question about Sri Lanka or any other of the many countries whose people are coming to Australia, none of which Australia (or largely America for that matter) has had any particular connection or influence.
This report from Andrew Bolt must now surely leave the media lefties like stunned mullets.
Abbott has done what many journos say he could not do.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...he_bungler_in_indonesia_they_falsely_claimed/
The people on the boat that sank were Lebanese Muslims looking for a better life here at our expense (as Sails implied). Did you even watch the video or read the transcript? They have the hide to blame us for the deaths of their people.No, it’s not our fault that people in other countries experience hardship. Yes something should be done to make these people have the opportunities and standard of living we enjoy without having to be smuggled around the world.
But the reality is, if I’m a guy living in the back blocks of Syria with a government willing to use chemical weapons on its own people and with little hope for a better future, I’m also going to do whatever it takes to make a better life for me and my loved ones. I doubt you or anyone else here would feel any different in the same situation.
What does illegal immigration have to do with religion anyway? What if they were persecuted Christians from Egypt? Would you feel any different?
(My bolds)Since Kevin Rudd abolished John Howard's policies in 2008, many more than 50,000 people have come illegally by boat, in an accelerating trend. If the route is not stopped, 50,000 in a few years will be several hundred thousand.
Australia is a nation built on legal immigration. The integrity of our immigration policy is absolutely core to the integrity of our national project. The social costs of a predominantly Muslim, poorly educated population with little English would be huge.
A large part of the attraction of Australia is the extremely generous welfare system. Most people who arrive illegally by boat do not get jobs, even after five years. The financial costs would also be enormous.
And of course the humanitarian price of all the people who drown on the way is just too high.
Everyone in Australia knows this except the refugee advocates, the Greens, the Labor Left and a swag of prominent media commentators.
Unbelievable! What right do they have to hope for a better life?!
Do you seriously think the Islamic religion isn’t the root cause of the problems that makes life intolerable in Muslim countries, causing so many people to emigrate to other countries by whatever means possible, whether legal or illegal?What does illegal immigration have to do with religion anyway?
I know some persecuted Christians from Egypt – a husband and wife who are both doctors, very nice people. We’ve had them to our place for barbeques a number of times, and they've had us to their place.What if they were persecuted Christians from Egypt? Would you feel any different?
Do you seriously think the Islamic religion isn’t the root cause of the problems that makes life intolerable in Muslim countries, causing so many people to emigrate to other countries by whatever means possible, whether legal or illegal?
'The social costs of a predominantly Muslim, poorly educated population with little English would be huge."
Those who arrived in Australia after 26 February 2001 are generally considered to be “non-protected SCV holders” and are considered to be on a “temporary visa”. Non-protected SCV holders cannot access the full range of Centrelink social security payments. For example, they are not eligible for the unemployment (‘Newstart’) or sickness allowance. The only exception is that non-protected SCV holders who have lived in Australia for at least ten continuous years since 26 February 2001 may be eligible to receive a one-off payment of Newstart Allowance, Youth Allowance or Sickness Allowance for up to six months.
I think we're all aware of events in the 1970's, Whiskers. It hardly has continuing relevance in 2013!!!The main point about the people smuggler trade, through Indonesia as it relates to us, is that regardless of the root cause or motivation of the Asylum seekers, once the people started to flow towards Aus given the nature of Indo culture and politics, entrepreneurial types with good government ties saw a business opportunity. The saw it was much easier and more profitable to help them through Indo on their way to Aus. Hence, a reluctance for Indo to stop the 'boat people' trade.
The US was behind a coup d'état that planted the Shah in control of Iran from WWII until the late 1970's. After the Iranian revolution that saw the current regime come to power the US led an economic war of sanctions against Iran in response to their nuclear ambitions and threats of death to America.
Good point.Consider the way we treat NZ immigrants, This is from a country which more than any other country in the world, shares our cultural and social values. We put up barriers that don't apply to the alien Muslims, whose every need we cater for after arrival at Christmas Island.
Has anyone said they have no right to hope for a better life?
As Chris suggests, if they want a better life they should work to create it in their own countries. They could start by changing the backward attitudes that are causing their problems.
I just don’t go along with the idea that their search for a better life gives them the right to come flooding into our country by paying criminals to bring them here, and then expecting us to provide that better life they’re chasing, while at the same time they stick to their fanatical religious beliefs, make little or no effort to fit in with Australian life and respect our culture and values, change entire neighborhoods into Islamist societies, breed prolifically, demand special rights, and bring with them the tribal and factional hatreds that were the root cause of trouble in their homelands.
Have a look at what has happened with the Muslims in Holland, and ask yourself if you want the same thing to happen here. It didn’t happen overnight, it happened bit by bit as Muslims filtered into the country and then started demanding and getting special rights. There are many countries that are going the same way because they let Muslims get a foot hold....England, Spain, Germany, France. There are now some areas of these countries where you risk your life if you’re a non Muslim who walks into a Muslim neighborhood.
There are even some Muslims neighborhoods in Australia where you’d be taking a risk as a non-Muslim.
I ask you again – do you want the same thing to happen here in Australia? It already is happening, slowly but surely, and you want to speed up the process by welcoming Muslims in their hundreds of thousands???!!!
I think this conversation is turning into a blind hate session. When 3 posters take the discussion into denigrating Islam as a front for world domination I just don't like it.
...I completely reject the proposal that the Islamic religion is somehow a front for world domination. I suggest that trying to run this line is really offensive and not remotely in any spirit of constructive discussion.
41 students and an English teacher have been killed in an Islamic extremist attack on a boarding school in northeast Nigeria. Some students were burned alive, according to survivors being treated for burn and gunshot wounds.
"We received 42 dead bodies of students and other staff of Government Secondary School [in] Mamudo last night. Some of them had gunshot wounds while many of them had burns and ruptured tissues," Haliru Aliyu of the Potiskum General Hospital told AFP.
Militants arrived on the scene with vessels carrying large quantities of fuel, which they used to torch the building. Those who tried to flee the burning wreckage were shot, the survivors said.
The attack on Government Secondary School in Mamudo town in the northeastern Yobe state is the latest in a series of militant attacks targeting children.
Yes Noco, and that was confirmed in the article I linked to earlier.I have been saying it now for some time...........there is a world wide plot for Islamic world domination and they are doing through illegal immigration.
When they are in small numbers there are few problems....but mark my words when they get the numbers, they will create havic for any counrty.
Islam is not about religion, it is purely political......Religion is only a front and are similar in nature to the Green movement whereby the invironment is just a front for communsim.....
Yes Noco, and that was confirmed in the article I linked to earlier.
"From its inception in 1928, the Muslim Brotherhood has been the subject of persecution due to its commitment to a single goal ”” transitioning the world into an Islamic empire.
In the early 1990s, the Brotherhood memorialized its strategy in a secret document ””not discovered until 2004 ””for spreading Islam’s reach to U.S. borders as well. In a game plan best described as “Shariah creep,” it sought to introduce Islamic law into the United States, gradually getting it to replace rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. Sound absurd? We have already seen Shariah applied by U.S. state courts!
One example of a state court applying Shariah involved a Muslim husband accused of raping his Muslim wife. Arguing that Shariah allows a husband to forcefully impose himself upon a non-consenting wife, he was found not guilty. One can only wonder how long it will be before such rationale is applied to Muslim defendants killing a family member, declaring their innocence under the Islamic concept of “honor killings.”
The Muslim Brotherhood’s strategy mandated Muslims immigrate to the United States, ignoring its “mixing bowl” of cultures concept by non-assimilation. In this way, Muslims remained pure in their efforts to go forth and multiply, gaining more and more influence in the United States.
The idea of a large, non-assimilated Muslim population gaining influence on foreign shores has long been promoted .... Erdogan who once said, “The mosques are our barracks, the domes are our helmets, the minarets are our swords and the faithful are our army.”
It was revealed recently that the Muslim population of the Gold Coast has DOUBLED in just two years from 4,000 in 2011 to an estimated 8,000 now ... not through migration, but due to their high procreation rate.
Nationally, the Islamic population grew by 40% from 2006 to 2011, compared to our overall population growth of 8%.
The Gold Coast Islamic leaders are complaining that their current mosque is now overcrowded and are pushing for another mosque to be built to accommodate the growth.
Muslims are establishing significant communities in Australia, in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, now in Gold Coast and once we allow them in, it will be impossible to kick them out. How long before the amplified calls to prayer will be blasting out from the minarets five times a day throughout Australia and Shariah law becomes part of our legal system?
In July this year, Rudd's new parliamentary secretary, Ed Husic was sworn in on the Koran.
"This is a wonderful day for multiculturalism, and everything it stands for in our country," Governor-General Quentin Bryce told Mr Husic during the swearing-in ceremony in Canberra on Monday. ... How frighteningly naive!!!
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-for-taking-oath-on-koran-20130702-2p8l2.html
When a cartoonist satirises their religion in a drawing, or someone makes a movie that they perceive as being anti-Islamic, Muslims take to the streets and express their anger in the most violent ways possible, but when one of their extremist terrorist groups commits a horrific atrocity in a shopping mall in the name of their religion, strangely they fall very silent. Why is that?
A KENYAN doctor has told of finding eyes, ears and noses torn from the bodies of hostages recovered from Nairobi's Westgate Mall.
"They removed (testicles), eyes, ears, nose. They get your hand and sharpen it like a pencil then they tell you to write your name with the blood. They drive knives inside a child's body. Actually if you look at all the bodies, unless those ones that were escaping, fingers are cut by pliers, the noses are ripped by pliers."
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/n...-fool-terrorists/story-fndir2ev-1226727931521
If an extremist group committed such an extreme act of cruelty in the name of any other religion, especially Christianity, I'm sure there would be a very vocal reaction from the religious leaders.
As Bunyip pointed out, if we don't act decisively to curb this Muslim infiltration, the Australia we currently enjoy will be irreversibly changed, and not for the better! Currently our Muslim population is somewhere between 2-5% and growing rapidly ... and that is cause for alarm!
In the small sleepy islands of Fiji, the natives woke up one morning in 1987 and found that the Indian population had increased their power and were now ruling them, and we know what turmoil ensued after that. Is that what we want for our future?
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