Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[IFocus]

none of which explains why Australian men and women should risk their lives if Afghanis, of whatever ethnicity, aren't prepared to fight at least with them.

earned[/B].

Australians are fighting in Afghan because of the US alliance


The Afghans are fighting because that's what they have always done since before the time of Alexander the Great.

The majority of Afghan refugees were Hazaras because they were getting butchered

 

[Calliope]

The majority of Afghan refugees were Hazaras because they were getting butchered

Is that so?

Following the 11 September 2001 attacks on the United States, British and American forces invaded Afghanistan, and removed the Taliban from power and effectively saved the Hazaras from ethnic cleansing at the hands of the Taliban. Since then, the situation for Hazaras in Afghanistan has changed drastically and has much improved in a very short time. Today, due to the NATO involvement, Hazaras enjoy much more freedom and equality than ever before. Hazaras can now pursue higher education, enroll in the army, and have top government positions.

Wikipedia

 

[IFocus]

Is that so?


Wikipedia

Excellent its all good send them back

He says 11 Hazaras were decapitated and left to rot on the side of the road in a recent massacre in Uruzgan province.

"It's indeed very dangerous for Hazaras. This is something which seems to have been completely overlooked by the Government in its decision making," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/17/3014280.htm

More about those nasty boat people

Afghan Refugees Building New Lives In Australia

Hazara refugees in Australia have a hard-working reputation, borne out of years of hardship.

This surprised me

Government figures show more than 17,000 people in Australia were born in Afghanistan; Hazaras make up about five percent of that number.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Afghan-Refugees-Building-New-Lives-In-Australia-106603463.html

 

[namrog]

Has come to mind that when it was usefull, it was alright for the Afghans to come here, suppose that's why the Ghan is called so...I'm guessing it couldn't have been done without em...
So why not find a similar job for them now that could be a win - win for all, for example building a water pipeline from the northern teritory to the southern states, similar to the work for the dole programme.. ? while their applications are being processed...and those that qualify stay, and those that don't go home....

Sometimes, the hard black or white approach needs to be tempered....

 

[noco]

Has come to mind that when it was usefull, it was alright for the Afghans to come here, suppose that's why the Ghan is called so...I'm guessing it couldn't have been done without em...
So why not find a similar job for them now that could be a win - win for all, for example building a water pipeline from the northern teritory to the southern states, similar to the work for the dole programme.. ? while their applications are being processed...and those that qualify stay, and those that don't go home....

Sometimes, the hard black or white approach needs to be tempered....

Yeah I guess it could work. It's all down hill from NT to Adelaide.

 

[IFocus]

Has come to mind that when it was usefull, it was alright for the Afghans to come here, suppose that's why the Ghan is called so...I'm guessing it couldn't have been done without em...
.

You mean the Afghans who came here long before I dare say most of the anti Afghan mob here families and made major contributions to the development of Australia.

Although the number of Afghans coming to Australia was small (no more than 3000) compared with other ethnic groups, their contribution to this country has been much greater than most people realise. Afghans have made a substantial contribution to South Australia and Australia but history has almost ignored them, and the role they played opening up inland Australia.

Without the Afghans much of the development of the outback would have been very difficult if not impossible. Whole communities, towns, mining establishments, pastoral properties and some well known explorations in the interior have been made successful because of their contributions.

Bugger me they were very successful that's not right

Many of these Afghans did extremely well in their chosen business. Abdul Wade had four hundred camels and sixty men working for him. Fuzzly Ahmed worked the Port Augusta - Oodnadatta line for many years before moving to Broken Hill. Faiz Mahomet, who arrived at the age of 22, settled in Marree where he operated as a Fowarding Agent and General Carrier. In 1892 he moved to Western Australia and worked from the Coolgardie gold fields with his brother Tagh Mahomet.

http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/afghans.htm

 

[IFocus]

Oh hang on

In every book which focuses on the Afghans in this country, after tracing the histories of Afghan contribution, there are further chapters entitled ‘No alien hawkers, please’ or 'The period of usefulness has passed’ or simply ‘Afghans not wanted’. By the end of the nineteenth century, racial intolerance swept across Australia directed primarily at the Chinese, the Pacific Islanders in Queensland, and the Afghans. Acts of violence and harassment at the local level, linked with the national policies of The Immigration Restriction Act, later to be known as the White Australia policy, and refusals to grant Afghan people naturalisation (even those who had been living in Australia for up to thirty years) gradually debilitated the Afghan community in Australia. Many Afghans were forced to leave the country and gradually the role of the camel trains was replaced by trains and trucks. The Afghan people who had contributed so much to life in opening up the outback to Euro-Australians were rewarded for their work with harassment and exclusion.

http://www.dulwichcentre.com.au/afghan-histories-in-australia.html

 

[namrog]

You mean the Afghans who came here long before I dare say most of the anti Afghan mob here families and made major contributions to the development of Australia.

http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/afghans.htm

When it comes to things like the development of Australia, I guess it all depends on how far back you want to go IFocus, It never fails to amuses me to think that the ancestors of those anti Afghan mob here familys that you mention, most likely showed up here in boats, " uninvited themselves " a little over two hundred years ago, or as ten pound whatever you want to call them ...They still don't realise that this is the black fellas country and we're all just guests...

But that's getting away from the main point of there being a win win situation for all here , if there is the will to follow such an idea through, sadly I can't see the current government having the vision or drive to try something so different....

 

[Vicki]

Its a very good point you make, about these tough nomadic people, & the vital contributions they made in the early days of Australia's development.

But where would most of these people live in oz now, & what sort of occupations would they have?

Like so many other imigrants in the past that we had so much work for, such as the 'Snowy hydro-electric' scheme, which employed an almost endless supply of people, & jobs/careers lasting many yrs....I not sure we have enough jobs/projects in oz now to accommodate a rapid influx of imigrants?

Vicki

 

[Calliope]

The majority of Afghan refugees were Hazaras because they were getting butchered

Did you say the majority Mr Focus? Later on you quote:

Government figures show more than 17,000 people in Australia were born in Afghanistan; Hazaras make up about five percent of that number.

 

[Tink]

Who do you work for Vicki?

Werent we all migrants when we came to Australia?

I am still trying to get a definition of 'the Australian Way'?

 

[pixel]

Its

You make some very good points too, Vicki;

but your (school's??) motto in your signature needs completing:

"omnia autem probate - quod bonum tenete"

In the context of this debate, that could support my earlier point that there's a lot more to explore before we can say we've tried everything.

 

[Vicki]

Who do you work for Vicki?

Werent we all migrants when we came to Australia?

I am still trying to get a definition of 'the Australian Way'?

Weren't we all imigrants?
Refering to Australia's imigration over some 150+ years..People [of all back-grounds] were attracted or invited to come, & in some cases were given land, in rural areas as long as they worked hard to make something of it [clear land & development etc.]
No power, no water, no noth'n....Support yourself.

Now, in 2010, I'm hearing we have a housing shortage for our current population, I could be wrong, personally I find it hard to believe, in such a big country, but where do we plan on putting a larger population in the near term?
Is it sustainable in the short-medium term?

Who do I work for?
A great family business, owned & opperated by a good imigrant family, who also haven't forgotten the generosity of other 'imigrants' [4th generation Irish Australians]
who let them use several acres of land in Vic. for noth'n when they first arrived 'pennyless' ..What goes 'round comes 'round I guess?
[Maybe that's the Australian way?]..I dunno.

Vicki

 

[IFocus]

Did you say the majority Mr Focus? Later on you quote:

I have heard various immigration Ministers etc quoted as saying the majority of Afghans boat people accepted were Hazaras so I was surprised they only made up such a small % of the total.

Which means the others were I guess migrants yet we are supposed to be over run by boat people.

Boat people I don't think is the problem that's been so well politicized and bought by the electorate's prejudices.

Remember the Vietnamese boat people coming in with similar who ha I have worked with to many engineers and seen more doctors than I remember from this groups children.

What I do think is an issue or unknown after knowing, speaking with in candid conversations with very moderate follows of Islam is the migration policy including the skilled migration policy of larger numbers of Muslims.

How they integrate is the question and will there be radicalization of the 2nd and 3rd generations.

I don't believe this apply's to boat people

 

[Tink]

Weren't we all imigrants?
Refering to Australia's imigration over some 150+ years..People [of all back-grounds] were attracted or invited to come, & in some cases were given land, in rural areas as long as they worked hard to make something of it [clear land & development etc.]
No power, no water, no noth'n....Support yourself.

Now, in 2010, I'm hearing we have a housing shortage for our current population, I could be wrong, personally I find it hard to believe, in such a big country, but where do we plan on putting a larger population in the near term?
Is it sustainable in the short-medium term?

Who do I work for?
A great family business, owned & opperated by a good imigrant family, who also haven't forgotten the generosity of other 'imigrants' [4th generation Irish Australians]
who let them use several acres of land in Vic. for noth'n when they first arrived 'pennyless' ..What goes 'round comes 'round I guess?
[Maybe that's the Australian way?]..I dunno.

Vicki

Good post Vicki, thanks for the reply : )

 

[Calliope]

Remember the Vietnamese boat people coming in with similar who ha I have worked with to many engineers and seen more doctors than I remember from this groups children.

The Vietnamese and the Chinese make excellent immigrants, mainly because they have a work ethic...and they aren't Moslems.

 

[chiasm]

The Vietnamese and the Chinese make excellent immigrants, mainly because they have a work ethic...and they aren't Moslems.

2nd and 3rd generation vietnamese and chinese immigrants are becoming more "Australian" and I tend to believe that the same will happen with the refugees coming to Australia currently. It might just take a bit of patience.

 

[derty]

I think this article has some relevance here:

The makeup of the human brain may guide people's political views, according to UK study

POLITICAL views may be hard-wired into people, according to a study that suggests those with right-wing views have a larger area of the brain associated with fear.

Scientists have found that people with conservative views have brains with larger amygdalas, almond-shaped areas in the centre of the brain often associated with anxiety and emotions, London's Daily Telegraph reports.

They also have smaller anterior cingulate, an area at the front of the brain associated with courage and looking on the bright side of life, than those from the opposite end of the political spectrum.

While it appears the initial motives for the study were frivolous the outcomes are very interesting

 

[noco]

2nd and 3rd generation vietnamese and chinese immigrants are becoming more "Australian" and I tend to believe that the same will happen with the refugees coming to Australia currently. It might just take a bit of patience.

chiasm, I agree with your analogy of the Chinese and Vietnamese who work hard and assimilate into our society and are not forced to marry into their own race. The same thing happened after WW11 with the English, German and Italian immigrants. They assimilated in the same way.

I totally disagree with you when it comes to Muslims who do not assimilate and are not allowed to marry outside their religion. However, they may be from a different country but msut still follow the Islamic faith. The Islamic faith or ideology according to the Koran holds sway over what a Muslim can or cannot do. If they dare break away from the Koran, they will be persecuted. No if's - no but's. A Muslim must marry a Muslim and in most cases it is an arranged marriage by the parents.

The reason for these strick rules is control and expansion of Islam throughout the World to eventually have a World Islamic state as has happened already in Sweden.

 

[chiasm]

chiasm, I agree with your analogy of the Chinese and Vietnamese who work hard and assimilate into our society and are not forced to marry into their own race. The same thing happened after WW11 with the English, German and Italian immigrants. They assimilated in the same way.

I totally disagree with you when it comes to Muslims who do not assimilate and are not allowed to marry outside their religion. However, they may be from a different country but msut still follow the Islamic faith. The Islamic faith or ideology according to the Koran holds sway over what a Muslim can or cannot do. If they dare break away from the Koran, they will be persecuted. No if's - no but's. A Muslim must marry a Muslim and in most cases it is an arranged marriage by the parents.

The reason for these strick rules is control and expansion of Islam throughout the World to eventually have a World Islamic state as has happened already in Sweden.

My opinion is that for gen y religion does influence their decision about who they marry but there are other things such as peer groups, the culture they are immersed in, and what they can access on their iPod. this has been my experience from working with adolescents day in and day out. Certainly going against your parents wishes produces a lot of conflict but the current generation is much more independent and stubborn. I certainly went against my parent wishes and married an Australian girl