Julia
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OK, but I'm interested in how you see the mechanics of actually flying people back to their original countries?
Asylum immigrants - Green Light
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How I see the mechanics? By the next available aircraft service to their home country. Seeing they have passports and visas they would have no trouble getting back in. However like everyone else I was just making a suggestion. I know very well it's not going to happen so the mechanics are irrelevant.
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Don't expect any co-operation from Indonesia. The majority in charge are racist and xenophobic. This is a country where foreigners cannot buy a house for themselves even if they are married to an Indonesian. As well as having no property rights they can never have actual permanent residence let alone citizenship - even when they are married to an Indonesian.
Meanwhile, Indonesians come to Australia and buy up our real estate helping to make it unaffordable for Australians. If they marry an Australian they can expect to eventually be able to live permanently in Australia and become Australian citizens - if they want to.
Australia is just piss weak.
20 years would be a better deterrent for the crew after all Indonesia gave Chapelle Corby 20 yeras for smuggling in 2 kg of weed.
20 years would give them something to think about before leaving Indonesia.
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Except that in an australian gaol they would probably have a better quality of life than living free in their own country and btw
Chapelle Corby is in a hell-hole for 20 years.
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Also lets not forget, Indonesia is charging the asylum seekers, for a transit visa.
Therefore they are complicit in the process and the question could be asked "why aren't they supplying asylum".
If they aren't offering asylum they must be aiding and abetting the smuggling process. IMO
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Because they are racist and xenophobic. Besides that who wants asylum in a country that doesn't have a social safety ne even for its own citizens and sees all foreigners as something to exploit. Of course they will charge for transit visas but they will never give anything in return.
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12 boats carrying 934 passengers over the past week. This compares to 2 boats carrying 128 passengers for the same period last year.
http://www.jasonclare.com.au/media/portfolio-releases/home-affairs-and-justice-releases.html
http://www.jasonclare.com.au/media/portfolio-releases/home-affairs-and-justice-releases.html
IFocus
You are arguing with a Galah
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Is there a bitter story of yours some where there Bintang Indonesia is still the rule of man over law but it is changing all be it slowly.
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Experience yes. Bitter story no. What is bitter though is that Australia is being taken for a ride by both the asylum seekers and those that help them get across our borders.
The problem with countries like Indonesia is that when the asylum seekers fly in and glide through customs; such is the poverty of the workers that they'll gladly take a few extra coins to let people slip through. As McLovin pointed out - it would be glaringly obvious that these people are on one way tickets and customs would know this; but eh...what can you do?
There seems to be a couple of tools at Australia's disposable; but will they help?
- No papers / no processing
- Withdraw from the UNHCR (The UN is all huffery anyway)
- TPV
You'll never be able to tow back boats. They'd sink them and then the Navy would spend more resources picking people out of the water. I think Rudd/Gillard have really opened the floodgates and it will be too much to shut them. It's open knowledge that the islands and detention centres can no longer hold the numbers.
There seems to be a couple of tools at Australia's disposable; but will they help?
- No papers / no processing
- Withdraw from the UNHCR (The UN is all huffery anyway)
- TPV
You'll never be able to tow back boats. They'd sink them and then the Navy would spend more resources picking people out of the water. I think Rudd/Gillard have really opened the floodgates and it will be too much to shut them. It's open knowledge that the islands and detention centres can no longer hold the numbers.
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There is no solution. and since the boat arrivals have multiplied, she has given up any pretense of finding one. Her old cry of Abbott Abbott Abbott and the Malaysia Solution have faded. Her strategy now is to add this cancerous mess to the whole heap of other ****, for Abbott to clean up.
She is well aware that this huge festering dunghill is impossible to clean up in three years and has has hopes of making a comeback. She is delusional of course.
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Fly throughs came up in the discussion on Insiders today. Listen from about 52 minutes. According to David Marr, this is happening through Malaysia as well.
http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2012/s3772660.htm
That puts Labor's Malaysia solution into an interesting context.
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LOL - its more than a few extra coins. It is BIG business and most likely aided and abetted by high level corruption.
That's how Indonesia works and Australia is being taken for a ride.
I don't know the solution any better than anyone else except that withdrawing from the UNHCR would be a good first step.
After that apply extreme toughness. It will involve tragedy and collateral damage just like in any war but the fact is this is like a war because it is an invasion of our borders.
So long as Australia remains piss weak about this our charity will be exploited and we will become poorer as a nation.
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David Marr made two interesting comments;
The smuggling industry is too firmly entrenched for Abbott to stop it, and
If Malaysia and Indonesia could be persuaded to plug the flow through Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta airports it would go a long way to solving the issue.
Not of course, that Marr sees any problem with boat people arriving illegally.
If they weren't issued transit visas they would have to go home.
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PERSUADED - what a joke. People are so naive about Indonesia and Malaysia. Take for example the Australian media's attempt to 'persuade' Indonesia to go easy on Chapelle Corby. What happened - she got 20 years gaol. You see the only thing that persuades them about anything is money. Forget about trying to show them the moral high ground.They will just laugh behind your back. There are now too many people making too much money by allowing the asylum seekers to pass through. And furthermore it is a 'growth business'.
I believe the only thing that could work is EXTREME toughness. But Australia is so hostage to bleeding heart liberals on both sides of politics that we do not have any capacity to show extreme toughness.
It's a pity we cannot outsource this problem to the Israelis.
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I think you've hit on the solution. Follow the money. Each illegal costs us millions to resettle in Australia. Surely we could broker an undercover deal with the Indonesian Minister for Graft and Corruption ( or the Indonesian Godfather) that whatever the people smugglers pay into the system for each illegal we will pay them double, treble, whatever is necessary to refuse them transit visas. It has to be enough to square off everyone in the chain from the top brass to the airport clerks.
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Calliope, you are very perceptive. Yes, this is what I was hinting at. If you want proof that it will work just consider Indonesia's success in countering its own Jihadist radical terrorist groups. Behind the scenes the Indonesian police have been paid lots of money to get the job done. And many informers have been paid along the way as well. You could say money trumps religion. I don't know what the Koran says about this but the Bible says "you cannot serve God and mammon". Indonesian police definitely prefer the mammon.
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David Marr's admission that there's a problem is another example that shows how bad the situation has become.David Marr made two interesting comments;
The smuggling industry is too firmly entrenched for Abbott to stop it, and
If Malaysia and Indonesia could be persuaded to plug the flow through Kuala Lumpur and Jakarta airports it would go a long way to solving the issue.
Not of course, that Marr sees any problem with boat people arriving illegally.
If they weren't issued transit visas they would have to go home.
Perhaps even he wasn't expecting the numbers to reach these proportions.
Isn't that what the foreign aid budget is for ?
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Michael Smith has the tally for May on his site.
http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/06/illegal-boat-arrivals-for-the-month-of-may-2013.html
3399 in total. At that rate we'll get over 40,000 arrivals per year. This is well in excess of what the government provides for in it's budget.
For the first 3 days of June so far, there's another three boat arrival announcements on Jason Clare's site totalling 301 passengers.
http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/06/illegal-boat-arrivals-for-the-month-of-may-2013.html
3399 in total. At that rate we'll get over 40,000 arrivals per year. This is well in excess of what the government provides for in it's budget.
For the first 3 days of June so far, there's another three boat arrival announcements on Jason Clare's site totalling 301 passengers.
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