Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[drsmith]

Maybe we should fly in our quota of genuine refugees and refuse citizenship to those arriving by the back door with no ID. Or maybe deduct the $200,000 it costs us to process each arrival from our aid to Indonesia for each person - perhaps then Indonesia would be more proactive in helping to stop these wealthy people jumping on boats for a life of milk and honey at taxpayers expense.

Don't be silly.

The Green's idiological nonsense is all at someone else's expense.

 

[Calliope]

Do you remember "Mediterranean Back?" The new money spinner is to feign mental illness and blame it on being in a detention centre. All with the help of Slater and Gordon who know a good little earner when they see one.

THE federal government faces a wave of costly litigation for compensation over its treatment of refugees in immigration detention centres, including Villawood, as lawyers examine the cases of scores of former inmates.
The Social Justice Network, an advocacy group based in western Sydney, has referred more than 40 cases to the law firm Slater & Gordon to assess their eligibility to sue the Commonwealth for allegedly breaching its duty of care towards asylum seekers who developed mental illnesses while in detention.
''This could cost Australia hundreds of millions of dollars,'' said the network's spokesman, Jamal Daoud, who describes it as a ''mass action''.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ion-centres-20120713-2219u.html#ixzz20YQkGzLz



Doesn't it just tug at your heratstrings?

 

[Julia]

Well the labor party will have to think of a new tax to cover the cost of compensation to these illegal asylum seekers.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...held-at-detention-centres-20120713-2219u.html

LOL Just when you thought it couldn't get worse. The joke is we are paying for the lawyers.

Sure. Doesn't matter that we can't provide legal aid for many of our own disadvantaged citizens.

From the above link, lamenting the sadness of one of the refugees who will probably succeed in receiving taxpayer funds for his detention-induced neurosis:

Since being released he has been unable to work and has been taking medication for depression. "I always feel angry all the time. Anything stresses me out. I feel short of breath."

Well, I also feel angry all the time when I read this sort of stuff, and stressed out. What are my chances of getting the government to pay me compensation because of my now pathological anxiety about the loss of border control in this country?

So, they come here without ID and our authorities have difficultiy in knowing if they are genuine refugees or not. So we take them in, house and feed them and give them money for life if they need it. Then they sue us for more money.

Meanwhile, there is little, if any, room left for genuine refugees waiting to come here and who don't have the money to jump the queue.

From Andrew Bolt: “Compassion” means robbing real refugees



Read more at the link.

Yes, "The Australian" covered the same sad story. As we've been saying for some time now, these people for whom we are now pretty much providing a taxi service as soon as they leave Indonesia, are displacing those who have actually applied via UNHCR, who have no money to pay people smugglers and who are enduring a precarious existence in violent camps.

To his credit, Chris Bowen is finally acknowledging this. So what are you going to do about it, Mr Bowen?

 

[Gringotts Bank]

To stop the rot at its source, war and violent oppression would need to be stopped. Do the UN have any power to arrest or kill warlords? I don't think the World can rely on the US to keep doing all its dirty work. If there's no warring, then there's no reason to seek asylum other than poverty. But if you claim poverty then you can't afford $5K for the boat trip. Is Australia investing resources in fixing the core issue?

 

[sails]

To stop the rot at its source, war and violent oppression would need to be stopped. Do the UN have any power to arrest or kill warlords? I don't think the World can rely on the US to keep doing all its dirty work. If there's no warring, then there's no reason to seek asylum other than poverty. But if you claim poverty then you can't afford $5K for the boat trip. Is Australia investing resources in fixing the core issue?

GB, I feel you are overlooking the pull factors of life time welfare and then sue the stupid Aussies for a few more millions. Probably repays the smuggler's fees. Sorry, but I really feel for those who are genuine refugees and these queue jumpers like Captain Emad are taking their places.

And, these same people who come here uninvited with no ID at our expense, expect us to look after them and then sue us also want to bring their own violent laws with them. What's the point of that???????????

 

[Knobby22]

I can't see this being solved till next election.

No one will give in to the other side politically so let's just welcome them here and stop giving them a hard time.

Out elected represenatives have resolved to let as many come as they want rather than agree on a plan to stop them.

They will be citizens and I would like them to think good of us rather than develop hate for us.
As they have to use our legal system then we have to give them legal aid. Simple.
If a child's parents die as their boat sinks, we should fly them to the funeral.
As future citizens we have to feed, clothe and do whatever else for them.
We should ferry them when they ask because they have overloaded the boats.
We will have tens of thousands of boat people coming over the next few years, maybe hundreds of thousands if we wait long enough, we should treat them decently.

If we don't want them coming -then one of the parties will have to give in - I don't think any of the parties will put Australia in front of their political point scoring so it is a moot point.

 

[noco]

I can't see this being solved till next election.

No one will give in to the other side politically so let's just welcome them here and stop giving them a hard time.

Out elected represenatives have resolved to let as many come as they want rather than agree on a plan to stop them.

They will be citizens and I would like them to think good of us rather than develop hate for us.
As they have to use our legal system then we have to give them legal aid. Simple.
If a child's parents die as their boat sinks, we should fly them to the funeral.
As future citizens we have to feed, clothe and do whatever else for them.
We should ferry them when they ask because they have overloaded the boats.
We will have tens of thousands of boat people coming over the next few years, maybe hundreds of thousands if we wait long enough, we should treat them decently.

If we don't want them coming -then one of the parties will have to give in - I don't think any of the parties will put Australia in front of their political point scoring so it is a moot point.

It is the Labor Government who opened up the borders. It is the Labor Government who has stuffed up.

It was the previous Government that stopped the boats and their polices worked. So why doesn't this stupid Gillard go back a systems that worked. I will tell you why because it is her pride and arrogance that is stopping her. She is always quoting she does things in the best interest of the Nation. BS. It is in her best interest alone not to accept the previous government polices.

The other factor is the labor Party are in Government and it is not up to the Coalition to clean up their mess.

 

[Knobby22]

It is the Labor Government who opened up the borders. It is the Labor Government who has stuffed up.

It was the previous Government that stopped the boats and their polices worked. So why doesn't this stupid Gillard go back a systems that worked. I will tell you why because it is her pride and arrogance that is stopping her. She is always quoting she does things in the best interest of the Nation. BS. It is in her best interest alone not to accept the previous government polices.

The other factor is the labor Party are in Government and it is not up to the Coalition to clean up their mess.

The Labor Party are in minority government so someone needs to compromise.
As previously stated, the politicians all have put their party in front of our country so its not going to happen.

Since this is not going to occur we should not take it out on the many thousands of boat people coming our way.
Simple. The mess stays. Welcome them here.

If you don't want them coming then tell your MP to stop it. Everyone blaming everyone else does not stop it happening. Apportioning blames does not stop it. It may win elections but it does not stop it. Can I say it more simply?
Even as I type this another group of Afgani's have hit our shores and no one is doing anything to stop it.
Labor and Liberal both agree it should be stopped but they are not stopping it. Unless they agree to act together they cannot stop it. The useless Greens want to send bigger ships and bring them all over in one go. They are not going to stop it.

Every time I see Gillard saying we need to stop the boats - then I yell stop them - agree with the Libs.
Every time I see Abbott say he will stop the boats, I say well come to a compromise with Labor and stop them!!!

Stop letting them get away with their political interests getting in front of what is good for the country.
Trotting out propaganda does not stop the boats!!

Sorry, I'm just sick of the political posturing and inaction and excuses.

 

[drsmith]

The Labor Party are in minority government so someone needs to compromise.

That someone needs to be their partners in government, specifically the Greens.

 

[sails]

That someone needs to be their partners in government, specifically the Greens.

Agree Dr Smith. The greens have had a lot go their way, so I can't see why they can't compromise over this issue given Gillard refuses point blank to re-instate the pacific solution she and Rudd abolished. Every attempt to do something better has failed.

Why should Abbott agree to something that may not work? Labor's track record of getting anything to work is pretty dismal. The libs had a system that is proven. It is Gillard who broke it and Gillard who needs to return to something that will work.

And I am sick of Labor wrecking so much. We had a surplus, now billions of debt in such a short time. We had good control on our borders meaning genuine refugees got a fair go and better chance we were not letting terrorists in posing as refugees.

Knobby, you might be tired of the posturing, but the majority of Australians are tired of Gillard breaking things and then refusing to put them back the way they were.

 

[StumpyPhantom]

The Labor Party are in minority government so someone needs to compromise.
As previously stated, the politicians all have put their party in front of our country so its not going to happen.

Since this is not going to occur we should not take it out on the many thousands of boat people coming our way.
Simple. The mess stays. Welcome them here.

If you don't want them coming then tell your MP to stop it. Everyone blaming everyone else does not stop it happening. Apportioning blames does not stop it. It may win elections but it does not stop it. Can I say it more simply?
Even as I type this another group of Afgani's have hit our shores and no one is doing anything to stop it.
Labor and Liberal both agree it should be stopped but they are not stopping it. Unless they agree to act together they cannot stop it. The useless Greens want to send bigger ships and bring them all over in one go. They are not going to stop it.

Every time I see Gillard saying we need to stop the boats - then I yell stop them - agree with the Libs.
Every time I see Abbott say he will stop the boats, I say well come to a compromise with Labor and stop them!!!

Stop letting them get away with their political interests getting in front of what is good for the country.
Trotting out propaganda does not stop the boats!!

Sorry, I'm just sick of the political posturing and inaction and excuses.

Knobby - you've expressed some real compassion here. Good for you, and I'm with you. Much as I despise what Rudd/Gillard has done, I think I need to confine my venom there and show kindness otherwise.

I don't know enough about the individuals who are coming and their personal stories. I just know that I'm living in the luckiest country in the world, and I don't know how I would feel in their shoes.

 

[sptrawler]

If Gillard had the strengh of her convictions, she wouldn't be in a minority government.
She would go to an election to get the numbers to govern in her own right. How does she think she is going to get the trust and backing of the electorate, while she keeps avoiding them.
All she is doing is reinforcing the electorates belief that she and her government are useless. If she feels it is all Tony's fault, call an election and see if the voters agree with her.

 

[sptrawler]

Knobby - you've expressed some real compassion here. Good for you, and I'm with you. Much as I despise what Rudd/Gillard has done, I think I need to confine my venom there and show kindness otherwise.

I don't know enough about the individuals who are coming and their personal stories. I just know that I'm living in the luckiest country in the world, and I don't know how I would feel in their shoes.

I agree Knobby, a lot of these people are fleeing from countries where women are shot for adultery, the man involved gets to watch.
These countries also have people who blow themselves up in market places and public meeting places, in the belief they are doing it for the 'greater good'. This usually involves killing their fellow countrymen, which I have trouble understanding.
I am sure if I lived in one of these countries, I would be fleeing as well, i just hope we don't get too many of the fanatics who strap on the vests.
Without papers it must be hard to defferentiate who are genuine and who aren't, I personally would carry my papers to prove who I was. We fortunately haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil, I hope and pray it stays that way.

 

[Julia]

I can't see this being solved till next election.

Agree. That it should be so is a blight on all our political parties.

No one will give in to the other side politically so let's just welcome them here and stop giving them a hard time.

I follow your thought process but cannot let go of the picture of the thousands of people who have been struggling to exist in violent and squalid refugee camps, waiting their turn, no money to fly to Indonesia and then pay people smugglers, who now have their chance of getting here dissolved because Australia is overwhelmed with processing the boat people, who purposely destroy their documents so we don't know who they are.
Sorry, Knobby. I can't feel any sense of welcome for anyone who is unwilling to let us know who they are and where they come from, especially as many of them are of fighting age in Afghanistan and - instead of fighting for their country - instead run away, leaving Australian soldiers to take their place.

As they have to use our legal system then we have to give them legal aid. Simple.

Probably doesn't seem so terrific to all those Australians who are unable to access legal aid, hundreds of thousands of them, many of whom have paid into our tax system.

If a child's parents die as their boat sinks, we should fly them to the funeral.

Really? Do we fly our own citizens around the country when a relative has died in a different state?

As future citizens we have to feed, clothe and do whatever else for them.
We should ferry them when they ask because they have overloaded the boats.

What? My first thought on reading this was that you were being facetious, joking, because that's essentially what we're doing. But I suspect you are actually serious.

We will have tens of thousands of boat people coming over the next few years, maybe hundreds of thousands if we wait long enough, we should treat them decently.

Let's say you're an unemployed Australian, someone who has worked all your life but has been retrenched at 50. You have been responsible and saved as much as you can but you're forced to use up these savings before being able to access the unemployment benefit. Then when you have done this, you get a measly $225 p.w.
Could you even pay rent out of that? No. Let alone all the other expenses.

Yet we can provide immediate public housing for these 'irregular immigrants', all medical and dental care, language tuition, psychological counselling, etc etc, whilst Australians languish on housing waiting lists for many years.

If you can feel warm and fuzzy about all of this, then good for you. I sure as hell don't.
Especially when we have the shockingly abused people of many African nations, who have endured war and famine for decades, given no hope of accessing this sweet life in Australia.

I try to dismiss it all, remind myself I'm not personally affected, so just forget it.
But the day we dismiss the need for social justice is the day we might as well give up.

That someone needs to be their partners in government, specifically the Greens.

Exactly. It seems Labor is very belatedly learning that the Greens have sucked them dry in getting the Greens' agenda filled, but good luck when it comes to expecting anything in return.
How stupid of Labor to even think of relying on the Greens.

Knobby - you've expressed some real compassion here.

Might be good to have similar level of compassion for our own people.

 

[sptrawler]

Well put Julia, I guess I'm over all this posturing on compassion.
Like you said, some of these people should have the same degree of compassion for Australians, but that's not hip or trendy at the bbq.

 

[sails]

Interesting article by Chris Bowen where he recognises the problems of so many with means to pay smugglers arriving here from predominately only three countries. Some of what he says reflect what both Julia and I have been trying to say that genuine refugees are missing out because of those who have the money to force their way here.

Here are a couple of excerpts:

Sitting in my Fairfield electorate office in Sydney's west, I am constantly reminded of the inherent unfairness of a situation that leads to these tragedies at sea.

In the most multicultural area of Australia, where many refugees have made their home, there is very strong support for policies that deter boat journeys and give more places to people sitting in desperate and prolonged circumstances around the world.

The majority of boat arrivals to Australia come from Iran, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka. Some will be refugees and others will not. But it is legitimate to ask: if we were designing a refugee intake with a blank canvas, would we have a program dominated by these three countries? We would not. Rather, our humanitarian intake would more closely reflect UNHCR's priorities, including populations of concern in Africa and elsewhere.

Read more: Is offshore policy fair? Just ask the migrants

 

[Calliope]

Bowen is admitting that John Howard got it right when he said;

"We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come."

 

[sails]

Bowen is admitting that John Howard got it right when he said;

"We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come."

I think Bowen has the right ideas, but can't get past Gillard. She rolled his decision to use Nauru.

Link on the cabinet leaks last year:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-16/bowen-refuses-to-comment-on-nauru-leaks/3573734

 

[Gringotts Bank]

GB, I feel you are overlooking the pull factors of life time welfare and then sue the stupid Aussies for a few more millions. Probably repays the smuggler's fees. Sorry, but I really feel for those who are genuine refugees and these queue jumpers like Captain Emad are taking their places.

And, these same people who come here uninvited with no ID at our expense, expect us to look after them and then sue us also want to bring their own violent laws with them. What's the point of that???????????

I don't really know how any of this works, I'm just floating ideas.

What about this: Every boat gets sent to Christmas Island. Refugees are given basic accommodation, but are not imprisoned as such. They must work to pay for their own basic food and services, otherwise they get nothing. Work would include farming duties, building basic infrastructure. Materials and education supplied by the Aus government. Anyone who behaves well gets put on the short list for Australian citizenship.

As preparation, Aus govt spend a few million on a publicity campaign in war torn countries so that everyone knows the score. "This is what will happen if you catch a boat - take it or leave it".

 

[StumpyPhantom]

I don't really know how any of this works, I'm just floating ideas.

What about this: Every boat gets sent to Christmas Island. Refugees are given basic accommodation, but are not imprisoned as such. They must work to pay for their own basic food and services, otherwise they get nothing. Work would include farming duties, building basic infrastructure. Materials and education supplied by the Aus government. Anyone who behaves well gets put on the short list for Australian citizenship.

As preparation, Aus govt spend a few million on a publicity campaign in war torn countries so that everyone knows the score. "This is what will happen if you catch a boat - take it or leave it".

It's possible GB. I've had relatives living on Christmas Island 30 years ago as well as more recently. Somewhat ironically, it's operated as a bit of a half-way house, made up of people who were predominantly connected with the phosphate mining (which is now almost exhausted). People who moved there were significantly not Australian residents or citizens, but came from Malaysia, Singapore, and South East Asia more generally. They got their permanent residence there.

I see 2 obstacles. First, the population that's already there will jack up and will have to be bought out to move to the mainland. CI is a bit like Norfolk Island, needing everything (just about) brought in from the mainland, except possibly seafood (not red crabs!). Second, it would involve creating a second class of citizen to be able to restrict movement from one piece of Australian territory to another. The Parliament could try enacting laws, but given its recent woeful record of defending them in the High Court, it might involve a constitutional amendment. No such amendment has really been successful without bipartisan support.