Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[Gringotts Bank]

It's possible GB. I've had relatives living on Christmas Island 30 years ago as well as more recently. Somewhat ironically, it's operated as a bit of a half-way house, made up of people who were predominantly connected with the phosphate mining (which is now almost exhausted). People who moved there were significantly not Australian residents or citizens, but came from Malaysia, Singapore, and South East Asia more generally. They got their permanent residence there.

I see 2 obstacles. First, the population that's already there will jack up and will have to be bought out to move to the mainland. CI is a bit like Norfolk Island, needing everything (just about) brought in from the mainland, except possibly seafood (not red crabs!). Second, it would involve creating a second class of citizen to be able to restrict movement from one piece of Australian territory to another. The Parliament could try enacting laws, but given its recent woeful record of defending them in the High Court, it might involve a constitutional amendment. No such amendment has really been successful without bipartisan support.

Make the locals a really good offer + relocation assistance? Not ideal I agree, but we don't have a spare island in the Indian ocean... or do we?

The refugees will be second class citizens, yes, but it's not a permanent situation and they are offered free transport back to their homeland if they decide they'd prefer that. If they choose to stay, they are made safe and given shelter. Food and services must be worked for. Anyone who protests or tries to starve himself to death gets deported back from whence he came. Reward those who do well with what's given.

The information campaign would lay out all the new laws ahead of time, and target the potential refugees and the boat captains. You don't say "it's illegal", you say "Do what you want, but these are the laws. You might want to think twice about paying some joker all that money for the boat trip. If you come, you'll be made safe and given shelter, that's all".

 

[Gringotts Bank]

So it would go like this:

Here's a tractor, a plow, and a field. We'll show you how to plant some crops and properly tend and harvest them. Or if you want to work driving a truck in a mine, you can do that. Or if you want to build yourself a house, we have tradies who can show you how to do that, plus the materials. If you don't do anything, you don't eat. And if you don't eat you get sent back on the first available ship.

12 months later, Ahmed has grown a crop and supplied his family and others with food. He gets citizenship. The rest of his family sat around and did nothing but complain so they stay where they are.

 

[IFocus]

Agree. especially as many of them are of fighting age in Afghanistan and - instead of fighting for their country - instead run away, leaving Australian soldiers to take their place.

I read this and think surely you have read something of the history of Afghanistan...surely, its nothing like a a place where everyone bands together to defend their Afghanistan flag never has never will be for very good reasons.

While you are reading up on why the Afghans butcher each other and anyone else that comes along please read up on the Hazara and why they have been and will continue to be butchered by other Afghans.

Maybe then you might grasp why they run.

The Hazara have always been given refugee status by Australia and I cannot see that changing.

As for Australians fighting there, right reason for going in wrong reasons for staying, wasted lives that will result in naught other than maintaining our strong alliance with the US nothing more but its a price we will pay in blood.

 

[Julia]

So it would go like this:

Here's a tractor, a plow, and a field. We'll show you how to plant some crops and properly tend and harvest them. Or if you want to work driving a truck in a mine, you can do that. Or if you want to build yourself a house, we have tradies who can show you how to do that, plus the materials. If you don't do anything, you don't eat. And if you don't eat you get sent back on the first available ship.

12 months later, Ahmed has grown a crop and supplied his family and others with food. He gets citizenship. The rest of his family sat around and did nothing but complain so they stay where they are.

I like it. As Stumpy suggests, however, I don't suppose it would ever be that simple.

 

[Julia]

I read this and think surely you have read something of the history of Afghanistan...surely, its nothing like a a place where everyone bands together to defend their Afghanistan flag never has never will be for very good reasons.

While you are reading up on why the Afghans butcher each other and anyone else that comes along please read up on the Hazara and why they have been and will continue to be butchered by other Afghans.

Maybe then you might grasp why they run.

The Hazara have always been given refugee status by Australia and I cannot see that changing.

If Afghanistan was the only country in the world with a history of warring factions, then you have a valid point, especially as far as the Hazara are concerned.

But you are missing my broader concern, i.e. so many hundreds of thousands of people from dozens of countries, especially Africa, who have endured far worse than the Afghans and who have had no alternative but to endure the misery of years in dreadful camps throughout the world as they wait in hope for their legitimately made applications to be considered.

I just don't know how you and others of the Left can so consistently ignore the reality of how these suffering genuine refugees are being pushed ever further back because Australia is so completely absorbed with having to process the products of people smuggling, a process entirely based on how much money you can pay.

As for Australians fighting there, right reason for going in wrong reasons for staying, wasted lives that will result in naught other than maintaining our strong alliance with the US nothing more but its a price we will pay in blood.

Wrong reason for both going in and staying imo. But the fact remains that Australian soldiers are being killed there trying to help the Afghan people.

 

[noco]

I have a simple solution. Sell Christmas Island to the Indonesians or better still give it to them as gift then it will a bigger problem for the people smuggerlers who will have to travel further.

Does anyone know what the strategic value is of Australia owning Christmas Island?

Why do we need it?

 

[StumpyPhantom]

I have a simple solution. Sell Christmas Island to the Indonesians or better still give it to them as gift then it will a bigger problem for the people smuggerlers who will have to travel further.

Does anyone know what the strategic value is of Australia owning Christmas Island?

Why do we need it?

Ha Ha - the way it's going at the moment, we could sell CI to Indonesia, and all of Australia could move to NZ and our Border Protection Command would still get the "come and get us" satellite calls as soon as the boat leaves it's Indonesian point.

There's currently no limits to the tactics at the moment, because Australia is perceived as not having any spine in standing up to this people smuggling trade.

So, bottom line is there are no easy solutions here. Inch by inch - that hard fought ground has to be won back against the smugglers, whilst treating the people the victims of the trade with compassion.

It might never be completely won back, but we may reduce the flow to 5000 a year rather than the current projected 20000 (based on June's figures).

 

[joea]

Ha Ha - the way it's going at the moment, we could sell CI to Indonesia, and all of Australia could move to NZ and our Border Protection Command would still get the "come and get us" satellite calls as soon as the boat leaves it's Indonesian point.

There's currently no limits to the tactics at the moment, because Australia is perceived as not having any spine in standing up to this people smuggling trade.

So, bottom line is there are no easy solutions here. Inch by inch - that hard fought ground has to be won back against the smugglers, whilst treating the people the victims of the trade with compassion.

It might never be completely won back, but we may reduce the flow to 5000 a year rather than the current projected 20000 (based on June's figures).

+1
joea ..one point! I would not sell CI until I fully understood what was underneath it.

 

[DB008]

Just went to a BBQ in Western Sydney.

There happen to be a couple from Eastern Europe there (with a baby).

So - Dad, Mum + a 6 year old all in perfect health. Have education and are healthy. No criminal records.

They sold EVERYTHING in EASTERN EUROPE to come here.
Big gamble because the situation is so bad in Europe, there is no hope over there. Why not start fresh in the land of opportunity...

He is on a student visa. He is also working limited hours and studying at TAFE. Wife is at home looking after the child. I didn't catch his job, but they are just making ends meet.

He works at the moment (limited hours), pays his taxes and studies, things that a normal Aussie would do.
He wants to move her permanently, integrate into society, live here forever, do everything right.

Contribute as a normal person in society would do.

Think he has a chance...NO.

Because of his student visa, and will have to re-apply in 3 (or 4) years time, to extend it so he can stay here and try to find a sponsor.

I told him, your better off flying to Indo and hopping on a boat and calling for help. At least you'd get a Gov subsidised house and help hand-outs from the Government.
At the moment he has no help from the Aust. Government (not that he needs it) and is paying $650 a week rent in St Leonards.

This country is a f**ken joke.

 

[StumpyPhantom]

Yep!!

Most migrant stories you hear will be like that. Hard work, personal sacrifice, sell up everything in the homeland to find a better life, especially for the kids.

That's not unusual at all. About 15 years ago, the Government withdrew normal benefits for new migrants for a period of 2 years. So life is tough. Very tough, when you take the language and qualifications barriers into account.

Years of hard labouring at low paying jobs. But they do it, because that's the ethos built on a respectable path to a new life.

We actually know this phenomenon from looking at our own home-grown talent. If you start out with a sense of entitlement, how often do you shed that?

 

[sails]

Gillard's green light is still working: Another boatload of asylum seekers arrives at Christmas Island

Presumably these will take the place of genuine refugees.

 

[Julia]

Ha Ha - the way it's going at the moment, we could sell CI to Indonesia, and all of Australia could move to NZ and our Border Protection Command would still get the "come and get us" satellite calls as soon as the boat leaves it's Indonesian point.

There's currently no limits to the tactics at the moment, because Australia is perceived as not having any spine in standing up to this people smuggling trade.

And that's the whole point in this miserable situation. We are being made complete fools of.

Just went to a BBQ in Western Sydney.

There happen to be a couple from Eastern Europe there (with a baby).

So - Dad, Mum + a 6 year old all in perfect health. Have education and are healthy. No criminal records.

They sold EVERYTHING in EASTERN EUROPE to come here.
Big gamble because the situation is so bad in Europe, there is no hope over there. Why not start fresh in the land of opportunity...

He is on a student visa. He is also working limited hours and studying at TAFE. Wife is at home looking after the child. I didn't catch his job, but they are just making ends meet.

He works at the moment (limited hours), pays his taxes and studies, things that a normal Aussie would do.
He wants to move her permanently, integrate into society, live here forever, do everything right.

Contribute as a normal person in society would do.

Think he has a chance...NO.

Because of his student visa, and will have to re-apply in 3 (or 4) years time, to extend it so he can stay here and try to find a sponsor.

I told him, your better off flying to Indo and hopping on a boat and calling for help. At least you'd get a Gov subsidised house and help hand-outs from the Government.
At the moment he has no help from the Aust. Government (not that he needs it) and is paying $650 a week rent in St Leonards.

This country is a f**ken joke.

And that's the sort of immigrant we want and need. Best of luck to that family.
He may be finding it unreasonably tough, but he at least can lay claim to self respect, determination, and courage, rather than a sense of outraged entitlement, something which seems to frequently characterise some of the recent arrivals.

 

[sptrawler]

I see Bowen has a bad case of foot in mouth desease again.
He says it is different for Australia because the boats have to be taken to the nearest port. Yet the boats a week ago were only 43 nautical miles off Java and were towed to Christmas Island.
Credibility is falling.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...ck-works-sri-lankan-envoy-20120716-22535.html

 

[Julia]

Indonesia could learn from Sri Lanka's policies. AFAIK we haven't given Sri Lanka patrol boats to police the coastline. Does anyone know what those patrol boats we so generously donated to Indonesia for border protection are actually doing?

 

[sptrawler]

Indonesia could learn from Sri Lanka's policies. AFAIK we haven't given Sri Lanka patrol boats to police the coastline. Does anyone know what those patrol boats we so generously donated to Indonesia for border protection are actually doing?

Indonesia has said they don't want the boats turned back. All they want to do is sell the asylum seekers tourist visas, as they are seen as in transit to Australia. The labor paty implossion over these refugees is going to be interesting.
It will be a bigger fiasco if by chance the 'Malaysian' solution got up. That would end up making the pink batt fiasco look insignificant. It would end up in an international incident IMO. LOL

 

[Happy]

And that's the whole point in this miserable situation. We are being made complete fools of.


And that's the sort of immigrant we want and need. Best of luck to that family.
He may be finding it unreasonably tough, but he at least can lay claim to self respect, determination, and courage, rather than a sense of outraged entitlement, something which seems to frequently characterise some of the recent arrivals.

Well said words of wisdom

I am not the only one to get impression that our laws are taken advantage of.

And nobody from Government to Centerlink wants to talk about polygamy either, as if it doesn't exist in some communities in Australia.

But this is different subject swept well under the carpet.

 

[DB008]

Is anyone surprised???

Soldiers arrested while escorting asylum seekers

Several Indonesian military officers have been arrested after being caught escorting 41 asylum seekers to the south-west Java coast.

A senior police intelligence source has told the ABC that five military officers, in uniform but believed to be unarmed, were guiding a convoy of asylum seekers to the coast.

They were travelling in minibuses and other vehicles when they were intercepted by port police early this morning.

Police say the asylum seekers are from Iran and Syria and were intending to board a boat bound for Christmas Island.

The boat was meant to leave from Palangpang beach in the Pelabuhanratu area of the south west Java coast.

The officers have been arrested and handed over to Indonesian military police.

ABC Link

 

[Calliope]

Get ready for a flood of Afghans!

PAKISTAN authorities will begin the mass deportation of as many as a million unregistered Afghan refugees in the next six months, a move likely to feed the booming South Asian people-smuggling market.

Australia is already facing a steady stream of asylum-seekers from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka, with Sri Lankan authorities yesterday intercepting a fourth boat in as many days in its territorial waters, arresting 37 men and four women.

Pakistan's secretary for the Ministry of States and Frontier Regions, Habibullah Khan, said yesterday his government was negotiating with its Afghan counterparts to begin repatriating all 2.7 million Afghan refugees by December.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ns-to-be-evicted/story-fn9hm1gu-1226429423560

 

[startrader]

Ten boats last week, two yesterday, one today with 160 on board. This escalating problem of open borders bringing in ever increasing numbers of freeloaders CANNOT continue. What a basket case we are with this farce of a government. What is going to be the catalyst for them getting kicked out? Gillard's shady past catching up with her perhaps? At some stage this government just has to blow itself up.

 

[sails]

Ten boats last week, two yesterday, one today with 160 on board. This escalating problem of open borders bringing in ever increasing numbers of freeloaders CANNOT continue. What a basket case we are with this farce of a government. What is going to be the catalyst for them getting kicked out? Gillard's shady past catching up with her perhaps? At some stage this government just has to blow itself up.

Is it possible she wants to leave the worst mess possible for Abbott?

One gets the feeling she will do nothing about this even if she remains in power for another 12 months or more and leave massive debt, massive welfare payments to all these arrivals even if they are not real refugees and an awful mess with the carbon tax which she has tried to voter proof.

Surely none of this is in the best interest of this country...