Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[qldfrog]

the real question is wht should a refugee or illegal immigrant get as much, or even anything;
when I migrated here, legally, I had a 3 year period where no wellfare payment was allowed.
I had to pay from my pocket a full health check to state that I was healthy while O/S,
but I am not coloured, not muslim, not LGBT (or whatever sex fairies have)and waited for 3 years in a queue with quota based on the country of origin., brought in education and money, had full paper and police checks,and this was under an ALP government...

 

[Tisme]

Tisme has it crossed your mind that this particular email might be in error? Indeed perhaps it could just be a complete lying load of rubbish specifically intended to create and inflame anger against asylum seekers and refugees?

Of course .... but that doesn't stop farcebook pumping it out. I figure it must be OK coz the LNP, Greens and ALP are doing the same thing.

 

[luutzu]

Maybe, maybe not... Hope not anyway. He'll let us know.

I think he is. He sounds the Lefty Greeny Reddish type, just his upbringing doesn't allow him to admit it.

I think I just insulted a bunch of people. The trouble you get for trying to defend the guy.

 

[luutzu]

the real question is wht should a refugee or illegal immigrant get as much, or even anything;
when I migrated here, legally, I had a 3 year period where no wellfare payment was allowed.
I had to pay from my pocket a full health check to state that I was healthy while O/S,
but I am not coloured, not muslim, not LGBT (or whatever sex fairies have)and waited for 3 years in a queue with quota based on the country of origin., brought in education and money, had full paper and police checks,and this was under an ALP government...

I think it's called a humanitarian visa Mr. French. Where the lucky recipient often have nothing but the clothes on their back and have to start all over again on a lot of hardwork and the kindness of strangers.

I know flying Economy to the destination of your choice is quite tough, but at least you're almost certain not to die on the way.

The important thing is not dying; or attack by pirates; or surviving years in a tent in a camp in some desert somewhere.

 

[basilio]

Of course .... but that doesn't stop farcebook pumping it out. I figure it must be OK coz the LNP, Greens and ALP are doing the same thing.

Oooh that was very dark and cryptic Tisme.. Makes me wonder about you.

You know/realise full well that the email trashing refugees and asylum seekers was lying inflammatory rubbish.

But you then suggest that all the political parties are equally guilty of lying rubbish. (I think that is what you are saying...) So it makes it all right ?? Really ??

I can see a dark point somewhere. It was around Howards time that the LNP Government really began to demonise asylum seekers calling them "illegals" (a complete lie) framing them as people who would drown their children to get into Australia (children overboard - another monstrous lie) and from then onwards framing the public debate by classifying asylum seekers as dangerous, diseased and desperate, not to mention potential if not actual terrorists.

And the Labour Party followed suit. They too accepted the idea that (for political reasons) they would not accept boat asylum seekers as future citizens. They had to find an overseas solution.

But I am surprised that you tar the Greens with the same brush. To date they are the one political party that still recognises asylum seekers as real, normal people attempting to escape persecution and asking for help to rebuild their lives.

The result of our joint party policy of making life hell for these people is ugly as xhit. That's why it's so much easier to treat them as sub human isn't it ? We really couldn't face ourselves if we recognised what we were doing to real people ...

Let's pray we are never put in their situation shall we ?

What has gone down in New Guinea

The torment of women at Nauru: 'This is reason I left my country – this fear of rape'

Date
June 7, 2016 - 7:51AM

57 reading now

Nicole Hasham


An asylum seeker on Nauru says his wife tried to incinerate herself.

The sky was fast plunging into darkness when a car pulled up to Amina*, and the male driver leaned out to warn about wild dogs.

The animals roam Nauru in packs and Amina, a young female refugee who was waiting for a bus home, was already terrified of being mauled.

She accepted the Nauruan man's offer of a lift, but instead of taking her home, he drove Amina to a house, ordered her inside and stripped naked.

"Dogs came in too. I wet my pants and soiled my pants," Amina later recalled.

"This is reason I left my country – this fear of rape.

"[The man] hit my face very hard. He said: 'Dogs will kill you if you don't suck my private part'. Then I have no choice."

The case is detailed in a report to be released on Tuesday by Australian Women in Support of Women on Nauru - a group of researchers, journalists, lawyers and advocates including former WA Labor premier Carmen Lawrence and media academic Wendy Bacon.

The report, Protection Denied, Abuse Condoned: Women on Nauru at Risk, paints a horrifying portrait of rapes, bashings and other degrading acts against women sent to the island by successive Australian governments.

Refugee advocate Pamela Curr, one of the report's authors who spoke to Amina after the attack last year, said hers was not an isolated case.

"I've received calls from young women deeply distressed because they have been picked up on bush tracks and roads by locals and have either been raped or attacked," Ms Curr said.

Not all incidents are reported to police, and most that were "go nowhere", she said, adding many refugee woman say they are targeted "because we cover our bodies and the men don't like it".

The report also cited the case of a young African woman allegedly raped at Nauru in March.

The traumatised refugee, who lives in the community, has not left her room since the alleged incident and has attempted suicide, the report said. It noted that refugee settlement service Connect was refusing to bring her food or water, to encourage her to "rebuild her life" out in the community.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...orment-of-women-at-nauru-20160606-gpcfeq.html

 

[trainspotter]

Are we talking real refugees or economic migrants here ? If they can afford to pay a people smuggler to get here by boat ... well you figure it out

 

[Tisme]

Oooh that was very dark and cryptic Tisme.. Makes me wonder about you.

You know/realise full well that the email trashing refugees and asylum seekers was lying inflammatory rubbish.

But you then suggest that all the political parties are equally guilty of lying rubbish. (I think that is what you are saying...) So it makes it all right ?? Really ??

I can see a dark point somewhere. It was around Howards time that the LNP Government really began to demonise asylum seekers calling them "illegals" (a complete lie) framing them as people who would drown their children to get into Australia (children overboard - another monstrous lie) and from then onwards framing the public debate by classifying asylum seekers as dangerous, diseased and desperate, not to mention potential if not actual terrorists.

And the Labour Party followed suit. They too accepted the idea that (for political reasons) they would not accept boat asylum seekers as future citizens. They had to find an overseas solution.

But I am surprised that you tar the Greens with the same brush. To date they are the one political party that still recognises asylum seekers as real, normal people attempting to escape persecution and asking for help to rebuild their lives.

The result of our joint party policy of making life hell for these people is ugly as xhit. That's why it's so much easier to treat them as sub human isn't it ? We really couldn't face ourselves if we recognised what we were doing to real people ...

Let's pray we are never put in their situation shall we ?

What has gone down in New Guinea

I can understand you have raw nerves about your empathies and politics basilio, most people do. I hold that when it comes to things like xenophobia, there is little chance there will be a eureka moment when the bigots on both sides of the argument will reverse their attitudes.

We all know that John Howard mirrored the silent majority attitude of the nation born 1970's and previous. We all know the taboos we are compelled by both LNP, Lab and especially the Greens to deny for fear of the state and synthetic community groups taking us to task. Tony Abbott propelled the hatred of asylum seekers into a different orbit and the Lab had to follow to stay soluble.

Being informed of what the opinion leaders are promoting to those too lazy or too politically blinded to care is valuable imo, even if a Face/Palm moment.

 

[luutzu]

Are we talking real refugees or economic migrants here ? If they can afford to pay a people smuggler to get here by boat ... well you figure it out

Can afford a boat ride if you sell all your posession. Still can't buy you a second life if you drown that first one though.

 

[trainspotter]

Can afford a boat ride if you sell all your posession. Still can't buy you a second life if you drown that first one though.

When your possessions are the clothes on your back and nothing else then you are a refugee. If you pass through several countries and pay a people smuggler you are an economic migrant. Big difference.

 

[qldfrog]

When your possessions are the clothes on your back and nothing else then you are a refugee. If you pass through several countries and pay a people smuggler you are an economic migrant. Big difference.

And then the host country is entitled to select and be choosy, as they were for me and as i expect for anyone else.
Not that Australia is in need of people requiring help, a trip in NT settlements or your bogan capital cities areas demonstrate that many children born here would greatly benefit of proper help.

 

[SirRumpole]

And then the host country is entitled to select and be choosy, as they were for me and as i expect for anyone else.
Not that Australia is in need of people requiring help, a trip in NT settlements or your bogan capital cities areas demonstrate that many children born here would greatly benefit of proper help.

Don't you mean "our" bogan capital cities ?

Aren't you one of us now ?

 

[luutzu]

When your possessions are the clothes on your back and nothing else then you are a refugee. If you pass through several countries and pay a people smuggler you are an economic migrant. Big difference.

All refugees pay people smugglers. They may also pay/bribe border guards and others on the way too.

Must people become Columbus or Magellan or otherwise get their own boat or dingy or floaty to be considered refugee?

 

[luutzu]

And then the host country is entitled to select and be choosy, as they were for me and as i expect for anyone else.
Not that Australia is in need of people requiring help, a trip in NT settlements or your bogan capital cities areas demonstrate that many children born here would greatly benefit of proper help.

Again, it's not an either them or us "choice". It could be both.

But thing is, and this is important, if those in political office managed to convinced us that those who risked their lives, those who ran from war and terror... if our politicians can convince us that such people do not deserve any help or humanity, do you seriously think they'll have a hard time convincing us to help our own poor and desperate?

Think about it.

If I can convinced you that Syrians and Iraqis - people whose country are literally being blown to bits - are just economic migrants; are cowards running away instead of staying to fight and die in their country... and you accept that they do not need help.

Would you then accept that those poor, homeless, poverty stricken Australians need or deserve help?

Why? Australia is at peace - no terrorist or bombing or liberators here, right?

Australia is a country of equal opportunity, with generous welfare and cheap to free education blah blah...

So it must follow that those who are poor or broke or on welfare and not making ends meet; must follow that they are lazy or on drugs or just criminals abusing the system.


No?

Pay attention to political arguments around budget time where a whole lot of "generous" services must be cut because we can't afford it. But other cuts and giveaways are for economic growth and jobs and growth and jobs.

-----

May want to take an advice from Confucius and see the country as a family - as we all are talking about when we spoke of generosity begins at home; help our poor brothers and sisters first, right?

Well, if we look at families whose motto is everyone for themselves, money is all that counts. Watch how the kids of those families grow up to be.

 

[basilio]

Again, it's not an either them or us "choice". It could be both.

But thing is, and this is important, if those in political office managed to convinced us that those who risked their lives, those who ran from war and terror... if our politicians can convince us that such people do not deserve any help or humanity, do you seriously think they'll have a hard time convincing us to help our own poor and desperate?

Think about it.

If I can convinced you that Syrians and Iraqis - people whose country are literally being blown to bits - are just economic migrants; are cowards running away instead of staying to fight and die in their country... and you accept that they do not need help.

Would you then accept that those poor, homeless, poverty stricken Australians need or deserve help?

Why? Australia is at peace - no terrorist or bombing or liberators here, right?

Australia is a country of equal opportunity, with generous welfare and cheap to free education blah blah...

So it must follow that those who are poor or broke or on welfare and not making ends meet; must follow that they are lazy or on drugs or just criminals abusing the system.


No?

Pay attention to political arguments around budget time where a whole lot of "generous" services must be cut because we can't afford it. But other cuts and giveaways are for economic growth and jobs and growth and jobs.

-----

May want to take an advice from Confucius and see the country as a family - as we all are talking about when we spoke of generosity begins at home; help our poor brothers and sisters first, right?

Well, if we look at families whose motto is everyone for themselves, money is all that counts. Watch how the kids of those families grow up to be.

Great post Luutzu. Goes right to the heart of the issue. Worth framing mate.

 

[trainspotter]

All refugees pay people smugglers. They may also pay/bribe border guards and others on the way too.

Must people become Columbus or Magellan or otherwise get their own boat or dingy or floaty to be considered refugee?

The point luutzu is if you cross through several countries where you can legally stay as a "refugee" but continue onto another country where you pay a people smuggler to get you to a certain country would you then be considered as an economic migrant? Or it doesn't matter how much you pay or how many countries you can pass through you are stilled called a "refugee" ?

Case point where Pakistanis travelled through Turkey to get to Greece are now being deported. Refugees you think?

http://time.com/4286839/turkey-refugees-deportation-european-union/

 

[bellenuit]

The Death of the Most Generous Nation on Earth

Little Sweden has taken in far more refugees per capita than any country in Europe. But in doing so, it’s tearing itself apart.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/10...-nation-on-earth-sweden-syria-refugee-europe/

 

[qldfrog]

Don't you mean "our" bogan capital cities ?

Aren't you one of us now ?

I am:
my capital city is Brisbane, your capital city might be different;
so the your aka the one you have based on your state

am definitively bonded to Australia now and a bit late for a change even if NZ seems quite attractive.
Thailand as well actually but that is a bigger ask....

 

[SirRumpole]

I am:
my capital city is Brisbane, your capital city might be different;
so the your aka the one you have based on your state

am definitively bonded to Australia now and a bit late for a change even if NZ seems quite attractive.
Thailand as well actually but that is a bigger ask....

Oh right. No bogans in Brisbane then ?

Except for schoolies week when they all flood in from OTHER States.

 

[qldfrog]

May want to take an advice from Confucius and see the country as a family - as we all are talking about when we spoke of generosity begins at home; help our poor brothers and sisters first, right?
Well, if we look at families whose motto is everyone for themselves, money is all that counts. Watch how the kids of those families grow up to be.

My trouble Luutzu is that you consider not the country but the world as your family,
and so assume that each human deserve to be treated in the same way;
we already touched this subject.
Many people do, by ignorance, bias due to own experience that is extrapolated to the current migrants (and I would see you there) or just naive lala land people
Whereas I extend my family to my country only (here, Australia) and stops there (it does not even include my birthplace).
I do place a value to the belonging to a country, not the aussie oie oie oie or the drapped flag od the drunks at New Year eve, but the land, the history, and the belonging.This is my family.

Every illegal migrant is a cost, a burden and a danger to my " family" and so it is my duty to fight them off.That summarises it quite well, you will also add an experience that few here have of the effect and cohabitation with radical muslims.This as a result of a string of policies O/S mostly mirrored here with a 20y delay-
So my presence here spending some time on this thread: but i can not convince Basilio or Luutzu, I know that.

 

[qldfrog]

Oh right. No bogans in Brisbane then ?

Except for schoolies week when they all flood in from OTHER States.

definitively not lacking here, even worse, cashed up bogans until the end of the mining boom....
My new family....