Asylum immigrants - Green Light

luutzu · 1 May 2016

noco said:
$70,000 per person per year.

You are forgetting it was so slack under Labor and that is why a visa was so easy to get under Labor....Very poor checks made......All Labor wanted to do was get them out of detention centers because they had run out of room.

From that article's figures, $149M were spent directly on 22,500 refugees. The other $351M or so indirectly to other organisations, with mandate to help the refugees.

So direclty, they're getting around $6,600 each. Indirect help would be $510M/22500 = $22,700 each.

Don't know where the other $1Billion goes, but not towards them noco.

So you can argue why should we pay or spend anything on them anyway. Fair enough.

But think about it. It costs us around $25,000 per hour, that's per hour, to fly one of our fighter jets over Iraq. If we see some unfriendly looking Arabs, one or two missile gets drop and that could cost $1 million on top.

Should we save a life, and perhaps one day that life would repay us in living and contributing their live to the nation and humanity - and does it for $6,600 a year.... Or wisely spend $25,000 an hour jetting around looking for some target to hit.

Don't exactly need Solomon's wisdom for this one.

noco · 1 May 2016

luutzu said:
From that article's figures, $149M were spent directly on 22,500 refugees. The other $351M or so indirectly to other organisations, with mandate to help the refugees.

So direclty, they're getting around $6,600 each. Indirect help would be $510M/22500 = $22,700 each.

Don't know where the other $1Billion goes, but not towards them noco.

So you can argue why should we pay or spend anything on them anyway. Fair enough.

But think about it. It costs us around $25,000 per hour, that's per hour, to fly one of our fighter jets over Iraq. If we see some unfriendly looking Arabs, one or two missile gets drop and that could cost $1 million on top.

Should we save a life, and perhaps one day that life would repay us in living and contributing their live to the nation and humanity - and does it for $6,600 a year.... Or wisely spend $25,000 an hour jetting around looking for some target to hit.

Don't exactly need Solomon's wisdom for this one.

From what I gather from your info, you are mainly looking at the welfare side......Look outside the square at the cost of the naval expenses incurred....Look at the cost of running detention centers..This is where the cost of $70,000 per person per year comes into play.....One of the illegals get sick on Manus so they fly them to Brisbane for treatment at what cost?.....Something you are trying to avoid.

So are you saying let ISIL run riot in Iraq and other middle east countries with the murdering of innocent men women and children?...Let ISIL have s free reign?

Where are your priorities?

Tisme · 1 May 2016

Fact versus LNP and Xenophobes

I'm fairly sure this was written by Bill Shorten:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...brary/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AustGovAssistRefugees

moXJO · 1 May 2016

Detaining a single asylum seeker on Manus or Nauru costs $400,000 per year. Detention in Australia costs $239,000 per year(Souce: National Commission of Audit).

It's cheaper onshore. But numbers are way down on arrivals compared to the labor fiasco. Are people here saying what happened under Rudd was sustainable, or even sensible?

For every refugee paying $5000-$20000 to get on a boat and after traveling through multiple safe countries, there is a refugee stuck in a camp following the process and getting shafted.
We take in refugees. We always have. Flooding in refugees unchecked is not a good idea. Labor were floundering for a solution. You only need to look to Europe.

luutzu · 1 May 2016

noco said:
From what I gather from your info, you are mainly looking at the welfare side......Look outside the square at the cost of the naval expenses incurred....Look at the cost of running detention centers..This is where the cost of $70,000 per person per year comes into play.....One of the illegals get sick on Manus so they fly them to Brisbane for treatment at what cost?.....Something you are trying to avoid.

So are you saying let ISIL run riot in Iraq and other middle east countries with the murdering of innocent men women and children?...Let ISIL have s free reign?

Where are your priorities?

Where did I say let ISIL run riot?

I'm not trying to avoid anything. I simply did the sums based on the figures in that article.

The article claims $1.5B was spent on refugees per year. It then list only $510M, and of that, only $149M goes directly to the asylum seeker themselves - the rest towards charitable organisations.

But say it's all for them. Where's the other $1B?

You're not going to tell me the costs of patrolling our waters; or the bills for border control officers at airports, are for asylum seekers too right?

luutzu · 1 May 2016

moXJO said:
Detaining a single asylum seeker on Manus or Nauru costs $400,000 per year. Detention in Australia costs $239,000 per year(Souce: National Commission of Audit).

It's cheaper onshore. But numbers are way down on arrivals compared to the labor fiasco. Are people here saying what happened under Rudd was sustainable, or even sensible?

For every refugee paying $5000-$20000 to get on a boat and after traveling through multiple safe countries, there is a refugee stuck in a camp following the process and getting shafted.
We take in refugees. We always have. Flooding in refugees unchecked is not a good idea. Labor were floundering for a solution. You only need to look to Europe.

Would you take that same trip through those multiples of safe countries if at the end of it you get a million buck?

People do not just pick up and leave because the grass is greener on the other side of the oceans. You seriously think everyone in the world just have a passport and a few grand under their mud floors that they'd just pack up and go if Rudd or Labor or other weaklings and traitorous politicians would look at their claims for "asylum"?

What world do you live in?

Yes, look at Europe.

I was under the impression that Iraq, Syria, Libya were poor and not much of a growth area. No where near the wealth and prestige and civilised people as Europe. But for some reason, those people didn't flee and invade Europe all the decades.

Don't know why they suddenly thought to leave when "some people" thought it's about time to liberate the place from its tyrant and its people - with daily airstrikes, upending civilian authority and infrastructure with those smart bombs and Hellfires.

noco · 1 May 2016

luutzu said:
Where did I say let ISIL run riot?

I'm not trying to avoid anything. I simply did the sums based on the figures in that article.

The article claims $1.5B was spent on refugees per year. It then list only $510M, and of that, only $149M goes directly to the asylum seeker themselves - the rest towards charitable organisations.

But say it's all for them. Where's the other $1B?

You're not going to tell me the costs of patrolling our waters; or the bills for border control officers at airports, are for asylum seekers too right?

You just don't get it do you?

That $70,000 per illegal immigrant per year is an all up cost to the tax payers of Australia..The welfare, the cost of running the detention centers and the naval expenses etc etc.......This is what you are avoiding and do not want to know about .

You broached on the point of air strikes in Iraq at some roving Arab.....Those airstrikes were targeted at ISIL.

Once again you have tried to evade the real reason of those strikes which were implemented to curtail the operations of ISIL or ISIS who are murdering innocent men , women and children by the thousands.

qldfrog · 1 May 2016

luutzu said:
But for some reason, those people didn't flee and invade Europe all the decades.

Of course, they did, they did try , far too many suceeded but most were pushed back, what changed was Merkel's open door policy.Nothing to do with Irak or Syrian war.
Will you have the same speech for the European white refugees in 20y fleeing sharia rape and collapsed society, or will you still blame the fact that their grandparents /parents were ugly colonialist and so they deserve it?
Funny how Swede being raped and killed by these "guests" have never even had colonies or entered in any war, but still have to pay the price for their naive faith.
Once you put in place the civilisation war Christian vs muslim, it is so simple, but too simple isn't it?

luutzu · 1 May 2016

noco said:
You just don't get it do you?

That $70,000 per illegal immigrant per year is an all up cost to the tax payers of Australia..The welfare, the cost of running the detention centers and the naval expenses etc etc.......This is what you are avoiding and do not want to know about .

You broached on the point of air strikes in Iraq at some roving Arab.....Those airstrikes were targeted at ISIL.

Once again you have tried to evade the real reason of those strikes which were implemented to curtail the operations of ISIL or ISIS who are murdering innocent men , women and children by the thousands.

Firstly, that $70,000 figure was conjured up from the "budget" of $2.9B for the "expected" almost doubling of refugees "next year" (2014) to 40,000 from the then 22,500.

So at best, that's an imaginary number News Corp. pull out of their behind.

Secondly, it is dishonest to lump all the costs for border control, offshore gulags, onshore detention centres etc. as spending on refugees.

That's like saying Hillary Clinton's wisdom is worth $200K+ per hour, and not five bucks with the rest on legalised bribery.

----

Was ISIS around when Saddam was screwing his people? Or did they appear after we liberate the Iraqis, and in the process accidentally, indirectly, never could have foresee, the death and destruction that liberated over 2 million Iraqis (to Allah and God), internally displaced some 5 to 10 million people, forcing another 5 or so million to seek refuge in places like Iran and the nearest border they could get to.

But I guess to make peace you got to start a few wars first. To save people a few hundred thousand Iraqi children have got to die from lack of medical care and nutrition from sanctions.

You heard the phrase about not reading our own press right? Doesn't just apply to movie and rock stars believing in it and ruin their careers.

luutzu · 1 May 2016

qldfrog said:
Of course, they did, they did try , far too many suceeded but most were pushed back, what changed was Merkel's open door policy.Nothing to do with Irak or Syrian war.
Will you have the same speech for the European white refugees in 20y fleeing sharia rape and collapsed society, or will you still blame the fact that their grandparents /parents were ugly colonialist and so they deserve it?
Funny how Swede being raped and killed by these "guests" have never even had colonies or entered in any war, but still have to pay the price for their naive faith.
Once you put in place the civilisation war Christian vs muslim, it is so simple, but too simple isn't it?

When did I ever blame White people for what their ancestors did? And that's not because my ancestors also did similar, mmm... civilising works on the Champa, Khmer and other people too. All our ancestors did things man. Just bigger or smaller scale - due to them not yet having enough time or being interrupted by more civilised people.

There never was any war of civilisations - ever in the history of Man. Only idiotic little politicians and inept Masters of War think or fight in clashes of civilisation.

Real warmongers fight for money and war booties. They just dress it up as noble ideals and us against them so the young and the ill-inform would march out and die to get those booties.

For example, Alexander doesn't much care for having his Persian colonies being Greek and read Aristotle and dress like fairies. As long as the Persian plebs pay their taxes and keep to farming, all is well.

Same with the Romans; the Mongolian conquered most of the known world then and there are little traces of them having ever done it - why? Because the Mongolian warlords know what's valuable to them. And having a bunch of civilised town hippies learning to ride horses doesn't serve that interest.

The same can be said all on down, across all empires and do-gooder non-empires.

Why do you think the US and its Coalition of the Willing take out Saddam? Spending some $2 trillion and counting fast at a few years ago.

The same noble politicians and war chiefs who spent that kind of cash to liberate a foreign group of savages see no need to spend 0.1% of that warchest to provide education or healthcare or clean drinking water to its own population.

Anyway..

dutchie · 1 May 2016

ulutzu said:
Would you take that same trip through those multiples of safe countries if at the end of it you get a million buck?

Most people would, especially if they are in a sh#thole country!

ulutzu said:
People do not just pick up and leave because the grass is greener on the other side of the oceans.

Of course they do, it is naive to think otherwise.

luutzu · 1 May 2016

dutchie said:
Most people would, especially if they are in a sh#thole country!

Of course they do, it is naive to think otherwise.

Really? So why don't all the Indonesians just move on down south? Is it richer and more democratic up there?

People don't just pack up, sold off the farm, get on a boat where they could literally die, just so they can earn a bit more.

The only reason why they would risk it would be when the condition is so bad that if they do not, they'd literally die there.

Yes, wars and famine shouldn't be a reason to try and get out of where God put you. And if it gets really bad, ask Merkel to drop by and put up some fenced-off area where where the bombs won't get to you.

We talking about human or cattles here?

---

And yes, dam refugees and human miseries... why should other people have to it. It make me so angry and upset at the nastiness of these floating parasites that I forgot to get upset at Chevron making over $1 billion in sales a year and pay zero income tax. Or them 79 honest fair dinkum Aussie earning over $1M a year and pay zero income tax.

It's nice to know my couple of tax dollars go towards helping millionaires doing it tough. I'd rather it help the poor savages but then that's just my communism talking.

Tisme · 1 May 2016

luutzu said:
But say it's all for them. Where's the other $1B?

to the public service to administer the production of ink on paper.

Tisme · 1 May 2016

luutzu said:
People don't just pack up, sold off the farm, get on a boat where they could literally die, just so they can earn a bit more.

. .

The pioneers of this country did just that

luutzu · 1 May 2016

Tisme said:
The pioneers of this country did just that

If my history is somewhere close, the first few fleets were forced against their will - being convicts and what not. Then the Potato Famine forcing a few more; then there's the usual terrorists and enemy of the state redheads and other of pioneering spirits being told there's gold and cheap plentiful land for the picking if only they'd leave the old world - one that have nothing for them anyway.

No?

So yes, true. Pioneers.

luutzu · 1 May 2016

Tisme said:
to the public service to administer the production of ink on paper.

Expensive paper and ink. I would have thought it's somebody being ripped off with some other being blamed.

Tisme · 2 May 2016

luutzu said:
Expensive paper and ink. I would have thought it's somebody being ripped off with some other being blamed.

Yes, it seems it is too hard to trace big business' laundering money, imagine how impossible it would be to unearth the govt's duplicity. should it be treacherous/covert with the public purse.

I'm guessing there are programs that are sheltered for the public good and money has to be spent, but under the veil of publically declared activities.

Tisme · 2 May 2016

luutzu said:
If my history is somewhere close, the first few fleets were forced against their will - being convicts and what not. Then the Potato Famine forcing a few more; then there's the usual terrorists and enemy of the state redheads and other of pioneering spirits being told there's gold and cheap plentiful land for the picking if only they'd leave the old world - one that have nothing for them anyway.

No?

So yes, true. Pioneers.

We are talking leaky ships right upto he late 19th century.

The 750 convicts and 750 support staff in the first fleet were stout of body gene pools selected for the harsh conditions ahead. A few convicts even had their convictions set aside once they boarded the boats. But I'm sure many were beaten like a redheaded stepchild on a regular basis.

In regard to the undesirables coming from you know where, the truth is that very few Australians want ill bred, lazy, uniform wearing, paternalistic, separatist ar53holes coming in to setup exclusion zone ghettos who are so scared of imaginary skyfairies they would rather watch destruction of humanity than lift a finger and voice to rid themselves of the miserable existence they lead. They aren't escaping, they are coming to fertile fields.

moXJO · 2 May 2016

Tisme said:
to the public service to administer the production of ink on paper.

This deserves it's own thread. Going off topic but an example of waste was the $1 million toilet block that was built in my area.
Cost to build was about $220k yet council managed to get it to the million dollar mark.

luutzu · 2 May 2016

Tisme said:
Yes, it seems it is too hard to trace big business' laundering money, imagine how impossible it would be to unearth the govt's duplicity. should it be treacherous/covert with the public purse.

I'm guessing there are programs that are sheltered for the public good and money has to be spent, but under the veil of publically declared activities.

If we can't take our gov't's words, whose words can we take?

In a few of his lectures, Chomsky was saying how the entire high-tech industry in the US were funded by the Pentagon/US gov't. All under the guise of security against the Reds.

So US taxpayers funded years and decades of these high tech stuff - thru university grants, thru Pentagon contracts and other departments. Then once they're successful and time to reap the benefit... private corporations and entrepreneur like IBM, GE, Bill Gates step in and get the credit - and all the money.

Same with the internet. Bet most of us can't name the guy who invented the internet protocol (I can't remember either, haha)... but we all know the freckled faced kid having billions of bucks from some social media app.

Same with the current cyber-security drive. Imagine what private contractors building these metadata vacuums can do after they're done with securing us from terrorists too stupid and too lazy to meet in person.

Asylum immigrants - Green Light

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