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Animal rights and ethical food production

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When I discuss the animal suffering in the food industry with meat eaters, the three most common myths that I hear are

1, But, In Australia we treat animals well, only overseas methods create suffering.

2, Animals don’t suffer because humane slaughter practices are used.

3, animal suffering is only in isolated cases.

The following video is an Australian documentary, all cases unless labeled otherwise are from Australian animal processing.

I think if you eat meat, eggs or dairy you need to watch this.

 
I eat meat and eggs, both produced and processed within my property.i give a name to my steers and have absolutely no problem to that consumption and neither would should any level headed person.
It should not be a war against meat but against industrialisation of it.
Just remember that what you replace it as a vegan/vegetarian is intensive farming for soya/cereals.
Aka ecosystem dead as in european wheat field deserts, heavy fossil fuel usage, fully cleared amazonian rainforest and Borneo palm
plantations.
Compare it with hillside sheeps grazing, cattle in switzerland and meadows with edge in Britain.
And yes productivity is lower, but we are back to the #1 problem:
Too many bloody humans

So let's tackle source of the problems, forbid live exports, reinstate local abattoirs and do not buy your meat in Woolies.
As an individual, buy organic meat if you can not grow yours
My view
 
qldfrog said:
I eat meat and eggs, both produced and processed within my property.i give a name to my steers and have absolutely no problem to that consumption and neither would should any level headed person.
It should not be a war against meat but against industrialisation of it.
Just remember that what you replace it as a vegan/vegetarian is intensive farming for soya/cereals.
Aka ecosystem dead as in european wheat field deserts, heavy fossil fuel usage, fully cleared amazonian rainforest and Borneo palm
plantations.
Compare it with hillside sheeps grazing, cattle in switzerland and meadows with edge in Britain.
And yes productivity is lower, but we are back to the #1 problem:
Too many bloody humans

So let's tackle source of the problems, forbid live exports, reinstate local abattoirs and do not buy your meat in Woolies.
As an individual, buy organic meat if you can not grow yours
My view
Click to expand...

Dude, most of the worlds commerciallly produced grains that are causing environmental damage are used to feed animals.

Take meat out of our diets and we would need 10 times less farm land.

Any “level headed person” should be able to take a step back and see reducing meat consumption is not only better for the environment, but reduces animal suffering.

Forget about live export, Australian animal agriculture is horrific as it is.
 
Value Collector said:
Any “level headed person” should be able to take a step back and see reducing meat consumption is not only better for the environment, but reduces animal suffering.
Click to expand...

As mentioned in this thread, I have taken a lot on board and have changed my eating habits due to this thread and the ideas discussed.

From a purely ethical animal rights point of view, I have no problem with @qldfrog producing and consuming meat in this way, I would buy some my self.

Is it sustainable to feed the world a western diet using ethical farming methods similar to @qldfrog probably not. Who knows maybe GMOs and battery powered trucks will allow for a massive increase in grain production on land already being farmed.
 
fiftyeight said:
From a purely ethical animal rights point of view, I have no problem with @qldfrog producing and consuming meat in this way,
Click to expand...

How do you know?

He didn’t actually give any details about his methods, you are just assuming small scale must be small impact.

The golden rule of morality is to treat others as you would want to be treated in their situation.

Now, would any one here put their hand up to trade places with one of the animals who is going to have their throat cut by qldfrog? Or would they let qldfrog treat their pet this way?

If not why not?

Killing an animal for entertainment, is not moral in my opinion, and in a world with loads of meal alternatives, eating meat is not a necessity, so it is entertainment.
 
Value Collector said:
How do you know?

He didn’t actually give any details about his methods, you are just assuming small scale must be small impact.

The golden rule of morality is to treat others as you would want to be treated in their situation.

Now, would any one here put their hand up to trade places with one of the animals who is going to have their throat cut by qldfrog? Or would they let qldfrog treat their pet this way?

If not why not?

Killing an animal for entertainment, is not moral in my opinion, and in a world with loads of meal alternatives, eating meat is not a necessity, so it is entertainment.
Click to expand...

There are a number of weaknesses with your arguments:

(a) the golden rule is susceptible to the criticism of the 'egoist'. The egoist can consistently pursue their own self-interest and demonstrate no inconsistency in recommending that others also do so, as one example.

(b) the argument that eating meat is not a necessity, does not lead to a valid conclusion that eating meat is entertainment. That is simply incorrect and a non sequitur.

jog on
duc
 
Value Collector said:
How do you know?

He didn’t actually give any details about his methods, you are just assuming small scale must be small impact.
Click to expand...

That is getting a bit nit picky, you know what point I was making. No there were no specifics on his methods, I assumed (yes I know dangerous) that if he is giving his steers names, that they are treated with respect during life and slaughter.

My general point still stands, if animals are farmed and slaughtered with respect and care I have no issue with eating their meat.

I dont think farming and slaughtering an animal is entertaining, we may enjoy the meal it provides but the slaughtering is not 'entertainment'. I look forward to enjoying meat from a lab.

This goes the same with hunting. I went down the rabbit hole to find out why people would want to kill an animal for sport, and found a group of hunters who take great care in selecting older targets outside of breeding times. They then stalk the prey to get close enough that a kill shot is a high probability. They then slaughter the animal and consume most of the animal. Joe Rogan practises this style of hunting, there are a number of vids and chat on him and hunting. This does not tickle my pickle but I have no issue with this style of hunting. As before can it sustain a world population eating a western style diet, no.

Value Collector said:
The golden rule of morality is to treat others as you would want to be treated in their situation.
Click to expand...

Animals feel pain and have memories, hence why I have changed my eating habits, but we do not need to apply high human morality standards to the same degree to all animals as we apply them to other humans.
 
Value Collector said:
How do you know?

He didn’t actually give any details about his methods, you are just assuming small scale must be small impact.
Click to expand...

That is getting a bit nit picky, you know what point I was making. No there were no specifics on his methods, I assumed (yes I know dangerous) that if he is giving his steers names, that they are treated with respect during life and slaughter.

My general point still stands, if animals are farmed and slaughtered with respect and care I have no issue with eating their meat.

I dont think farming and slaughtering an animal is entertaining, we may enjoy the meal it provides but the slaughtering is not 'entertainment'. I look forward to enjoying meat from a lab.

This goes the same with hunting. I went down the rabbit hole to find out why people would want to kill an animal for sport, and found a group of hunters who take great care in selecting older targets outside of breeding times. They then stalk the prey to get close enough that a kill shot is a high probability. They then slaughter the animal and consume most of the animal. Joe Rogan practises this style of hunting, there are a number of vids and chat on him and hunting. This does not tickle my pickle but I have no issue with this style of hunting. As before can it sustain a world population eating a western style diet, no.

Value Collector said:
The golden rule of morality is to treat others as you would want to be treated in their situation.
Click to expand...

Animals feel pain and have memories, hence why I have changed my eating habits, but we do not need to apply high human morality standards to the same degree to all animals as we apply them to other humans.
 
Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products, particularly in diet, and an associated philosophy that rejects the commodity status of animals. A follower of the diet or the philosophy is known as a vegan (/ˈviːɡən/ VEE-gən).[c] Distinctions may be made between several categories of veganism. Dietary vegans (or strict vegetarians) refrain from consuming animal products, not only meat but also eggs, dairy products and other animal-derived substances.[d] The term ethical vegan is often applied to those who not only follow a vegan diet but extend the philosophy into other areas of their lives, and oppose the use of animals for any purpose.[e] Another term is environmental veganism, which refers to the avoidance of animal products on the premise that the industrial farming of animals is environmentally damaging and unsustainable.[22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism
 
fiftyeight said:
That is getting a bit nit picky, you know what point I was making. No there were no specifics on his methods, I assumed (yes I know dangerous) that if he is giving his steers names, that they are treated with respect during life and slaughter.

My general point still stands, if animals are farmed and slaughtered with respect and care I have no issue with eating their meat.

I dont think farming and slaughtering an animal is entertaining, we may enjoy the meal it provides but the slaughtering is not 'entertainment'. I look forward to enjoying meat from a lab.

This goes the same with hunting. I went down the rabbit hole to find out why people would want to kill an animal for sport, and found a group of hunters who take great care in selecting older targets outside of breeding times. They then stalk the prey to get close enough that a kill shot is a high probability. They then slaughter the animal and consume most of the animal. Joe Rogan practises this style of hunting, there are a number of vids and chat on him and hunting. This does not tickle my pickle but I have no issue with this style of hunting. As before can it sustain a world population eating a western style diet, no.



Animals feel pain and have memories, hence why I have changed my eating habits, but we do not need to apply high human morality standards to the same degree to all animals as we apply them to other humans.
Click to expand...

Is there a “respectful” way to kill something that doesn’t want to die?

I don’t think it is nit picking, he might be cutting the animals throat, now he might be well intentioned and try to do it quickly etc, but can’t imagine it being very pleasent for the animal.

I have shot animals before, and cut their throats, I come from a farming and hunting family, I know you can say all the well intentioned words and justifications you like, but that doesn’t change the experience of the animals.

And if it doesn’t want to die, but we kill it anyway for something as trivial as “I liked the taste for the 30 seconds it was in my mouth” what does that say about us.

If we admit that animals feel pain, can suffer etc in similar ways to humans, why wouldn’t we apply similar moral standards?
 
Tink said:
Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products, particularly in diet, and an associated philosophy that rejects the commodity status of animals. A follower of the diet or the philosophy is known as a vegan (/ˈviːɡən/ VEE-gən).[c] Distinctions may be made between several categories of veganism. Dietary vegans (or strict vegetarians) refrain from consuming animal products, not only meat but also eggs, dairy products and other animal-derived substances.[d] The term ethical vegan is often applied to those who not only follow a vegan diet but extend the philosophy into other areas of their lives, and oppose the use of animals for any purpose.[e] Another term is environmental veganism, which refers to the avoidance of animal products on the premise that the industrial farming of animals is environmentally damaging and unsustainable.[22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism
Click to expand...

Yes Tink, thank you for providing the definition of veganism.

I class myself as an ethical vegan.

However, I am not a “dictionary definition” vegan, eg I will still use products derived from insects, and some seafood that doesn’t have a brain eg mussels and oysters etc.

But I won’t use any products from mammals, birds, reptiles, fish etc etc.

Basically the more advanced an animal is and the more capable of experiencing pain and suffering, the more I am repulsed by it.

Eg, I am less repulsed by the idea of people eating a prawn than cattle, dairy or eggs etc.
 
Value Collector said:
Yes Tink, thank you for providing the definition of veganism.

I class myself as an ethical vegan.

However, I am not a “dictionary definition” vegan, eg I will still use products derived from insects, and some seafood that doesn’t have a brain eg mussels and oysters etc.

But I won’t use any products from mammals, birds, reptiles, fish etc etc.

Basically the more advanced an animal is and the more capable of experiencing pain and suffering, the more I am repulsed by it.

Eg, I am less repulsed by the idea of people eating a prawn than cattle, dairy or eggs etc.
Click to expand...

Has your veganism made any difference to your personal health ?
 
SirRumpole said:
Has your veganism made any difference to your personal health ?
Click to expand...

I have lost about 5kg of fat, I am not saying you can’t put on weight being vegan, you definately can.

But for me, I found that after dinner of lots of meat like I used to eat, I would feel sluggish for the rest of the night.

But, since cutting out meat It’s like my body digests my dinners easier, so I have more energy in the evenings and tend to take my dog for a walk or be active in other ways rather than just sit in front of the tv.

This flows on to other benefits to, having the energy to exercise etc increases consentration, and I find I read better than I used to at night.
 
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