Wysiwyg
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I have no emotion killing a creature to eat. I think it should be done swiftly and there is a serious ethical issue if the kill is prolonged. All said before.
Animal rights and ethical food production
- Thread starter SirRumpole
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Pain and suffering are two different things. Pain on its own is not a problem. Only with self-awareness can suffering emerge - then it's a 'problem'.
I'd doubt cattle would suffer much. Pigs might. But since we can't know for sure, bashing and cruelty should be condemned and punishable.
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Even when you don't need to?
Are you ok killing all creatures? eg are there any species you wouldn't be ok killing?
Why is there only an ethical issue if the killing is prolonged?
I mean I agree with you that prolonging the killing process is terribly unethical, but if you agree that prolonged suffering during the killing process is unethical, then isn't the entire killing process unethical to begin with?
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What are you basing that on?
Is there science that says they don't? is there anything grossly different about their Brains or nervous system that makes you think that?
I am sure its a comforting thing for you to believe but I doubt it is true.
In all my research I haven't come across any modern studies that agrees with your position, as I said its 1950's stuff you are saying, and remember it wasn't to long ago that blacks were considered to be lower creatures.
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Cattle are mindless robots,
They are intelligent perhaps even more intelligent than dogs.
Check out this video, you will see cows can learn to open gates, release other cows from devices, turn on taps, and even pump water using a pump.
(this is not a graphic one, its a happy video)
They are intelligent perhaps even more intelligent than dogs.
Check out this video, you will see cows can learn to open gates, release other cows from devices, turn on taps, and even pump water using a pump.
(this is not a graphic one, its a happy video)
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The current method of killing pigs in Australia is Terrible even when it all goes to plan.
if you like bacon watch this video, you will see the Hell Australian pigs go through as they are suffocated with Co2, people that clean these killing cages say they often find pig hooves that have been ripped of by the pigs struggling so much.
and this is one of the USA's plants that make spam and other ham products.
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Why is the use of inert gas not more wide spread?
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I like happy videos.
But it does raise the question that if we don't raise cattle for products , then why have them at all ? They just take up pasture space that could be used for growing crops.
Do we just let them become extinct ?
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Intelligence has no correlation with self-awareness. Did you read what I wrote about circumcision without anaesthetic? Why does nobody worry about that? Simply because there's no self-awareness in a newborn.
What you're doing is imagining you are the pig/cow being bashed and then thinking how horrible that would be. A fish will battle for its life if pulled from the ocean, but it's just a lump of flesh with a computer program in it. Survival is simply part of its programming, built in by nature. And it doesn't think "how unfair this is". It's just a mindless lump of flesh. The higher order the animal, the more careful we need to be, that's all.
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What do you mean?
Value Collector
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I like happy videos.
But it does raise the question that if we don't raise cattle for products , then why have them at all ? They just take up pasture space that could be used for growing crops.
Do we just let them become extinct ?
You can keep some as pets if you really want some around. ( but yes I think I would prefer not breeding cows if we are going to just kill them, especially when life in the feedlots is crap and then the death is horrifying)
But wildlife is going extinct because we are bulldozing natural habitat to make way for cattle and the crops used to feed cattle.
So if we had reduced demand for cattle meat, we could have more natural wildlife, and you can have a few cows as a novelty if you want.
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I know exactly what you are saying, what I am saying is that your opinion is based on old beliefs, and it is not true based on current scientific and medical thinking.
Studies are showing babies experience pain.
Also even if human babies weren’t “conscious” or “self aware” due to their brains being under developed, how does that prove that adult animals with fully developed brains don’t have self awareness.
Where is your evidence?
Show me a scientific study that proves that there is something about the brains of other mammals that prevents them from experiencing suffering.
This video talks about the current evidence debunking the old theories that’s babies don’t experience pain.
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I am guess they avoid helium due to cost and practicality.
I am pro any improvement that can reduce pain and suffering during the killing process, however I still think it is far from being ethical even if there was zero pain during the slaughter process for 2 other reasons.
1, The living conditions at farms are generally terrible
2, I am not sure there is a sound argument that shows its ethical to kill some of our target species even if it were pain free, eg. even if I could painlessly kill you, it still would be murder.
This video shows some of the living conditions we put these intelligent animals in, and the diseases they live with without medical treatment.
Wysiwyg
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Rolling on the floor laughing.
Wysiwyg
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It is like when I go to the toilet. I don't have to explain it to anyone.
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It is like when I go to the toilet. I don't have to explain it to anyone.
Well this is a discussion thread, but you don't have to take part if you don't want to.
I would just ask that you take some time to think about the your choices and the impact they have on the innocent victims of those choices, Do some research and push past any wishful thinking you might have.
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Just to clarify where I am going from on this topic
I ate meat for the first 35 years of my life, and used all the excuses and arguments generally thrown around by those who eat meat and believed not of the myths.
I have fought and debated this topic from the meat eaters side for a long time, (people here should know how much I like a good debate and genuinely try my best to figure out the correct position to hold).
However the more debates I got into with vegans, the more I realised my opinions were deeply flawed, and that slaughtering animals and eating their meat was not a moral option, So I changed my position and gave up eating meat.
After multiple debates where I attempted to defend eating meat, I have realised there is no good argument I can think of for it, every common argument used to support it is flawed, I am open to be proved wrong and welcome any feed back, but I am pretty sure that there is no reasonable argument that can justify slaughtering animals for meat, diary or eggs.