Alcohol fueled violence

[McLovin]

I dont think it's the price it's the laws, you should not be allowed to wander the streets drunk, end of story, so change the licensing rules, licensees aren't supposed to serve drunks but's that all they do on weekends, why isn't that enforced ?

OK, the headline of the article you linked to is "Britain to Introduce Minimum Alcohol Price", so I thought that was what you were advocating.

As for not being allowed on the streets when drunk, no thanks. I'd prefer to keep my civil liberties and not let the government impose punitive laws on me because a small minority (and yes it is a small minority) can't control themselves when on the booze.

 

[rumpole]

As for not being allowed on the streets when drunk, no thanks. I'd prefer to keep my civil liberties and not let the government impose punitive laws on me because a small minority (and yes it is a small minority) can't control themselves when on the booze.

If one of those small minority hit you over the head with a bottle and put you in hospital, what would you say then ?

 

[McLovin]

If one of those small minority hit you over the head with a bottle and put you in hospital, what would you say then ?

The same thing. To be quite honest, it's pretty difficult to just have someone walk up to you and smash a bottle on your head for no reason. It takes two to tango.

 

[MrBurns]

The same thing. To be quite honest, it's pretty difficult to just have someone walk up to you and smash a bottle on your head for no reason. It takes two to tango.

You dont get out much do you ? They dont need a reason.
So you want the right to be drunk in public ?

OK, the headline of the article you linked to is "Britain to Introduce Minimum Alcohol Price", so I thought that was what you were advocating.

Yes it did look like that, but I really meant at least they're having a go we just do nothing.

 

[McLovin]

You dont get out much do you ? They dont need a reason.

The overwhelming majority of violence is not random. If you have evidence to the contrary then please share it.

4.5 percent of Australians aged 14 years or older had been physically abused by someone under the influence of alcohol (AIHW 2008).

...

In addition, more than one-third of victims (38%) had consumed alcohol themselves at the time of the incident. This is consistent with evidence that shows that a significant proportion of violent offences are committed by and committed against people who have been drinking or are intoxicated (Plant, Plant & Thornton 2002).

...

Despite this strong body of evidence, the relationship between alcohol and violence, like many other complex social phenomena, is not a simple or straightforward one. Research shows that heavy drinking and intoxication are associated with physical aggression (Plant, Plant & Thornton 2002; Wells & Graham 2003). However, the majority of people who drink alcohol do not become offenders or victims of violent crime and consuming alcohol does not necessarily act as a precursor to violent behaviour (Plant, Plant & Thornton 2002).

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/rip/1-10/04.aspx

If you take out domestic violence and incidents where both parties were drinking, you end up with very few genuine acts of random alcohol fuelled violence.

So you want the right to be drunk in public ?

Yes. What reason do you have for taking it away from me?

 

[MrBurns]

The overwhelming majority of violence is not random. If you have evidence to the contrary then please share it.

Does it have to be a majority figure to count ? , go out on a Saturday night walk the streets of your capital city, see how you go.

Yes. What reason do you have for taking it away from me?

Because you're a risk to yourself and others, you cant cross the road, you cant do anything safely while drunk.

https://www.anzpaa.org.au/current-initiatives/operation-unite/alcohol-misuse-statistics

•Alcohol-related crime is estimated to cost Australia AU$1.7b with AU$750m alone spent on policing.[2]

•It was reported that in Australia between 1993-4 and 2000-01 a total of 76,115 hospitalisations were a result of alcohol, with young people more likely to be hospitalised as a result of alcohol-related assaults compared to their older counterparts.[7].

•In Australia, the estimated social costs of alcohol-attributable crime in 2004-2005 were $15.3 billion.[4]

 

[McLovin]

Does it have to be a majority figure to count ? , go out on a Saturday night walk the streets of your capital city, see how you go.

I do, pretty much every weekend, sometimes even on school nights. You make it sound like Baghdad.

Because you're a risk to yourself and others, you cant cross the road, you cant do anything safely while drunk.

So under your scenario the police can set up a RBT on the footpath?

 

[MrBurns]

I do, pretty much every weekend, sometimes even on school nights. You make it sound like Baghdad.
So under your scenario the police can set up a RBT on the footpath?

I think the police pretty much have that power now, they just don't exercise it enough , the streets would be empty if they did.

Glad to hear you havent been a victim yet.

 

[McLovin]

I think the police pretty much have that power now, they just don't exercise it enough , the streets would be empty if they did.

They absolutely do not have the right to randomly stop and breath test someone who is walking down the street (as opposed to being obviously drunk in public). Those drug sniffing dogs are bad enough, God help us if they ever introduced random searches.

 

[MrBurns]

They absolutely do not have the right to randomly stop and breath test someone who is walking down the street (as opposed to being obviously drunk in public). Those drug sniffing dogs are bad enough, God help us if they ever introduced random searches.

Drunk in a public place
If the police think you are drunk in a public place they may arrest you and place you in custody. They may do this if they think it is necessary for your safety.

http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/1799.htm

etc etc .....................

Yes bugger the drug sniffing dogs it's every man's right to carry drugs where ever he likes

 

[Calliope]

Naaa the ABC are gentile people as are you all are

I'm sure we must have members who aren't Gentiles.:shake:

 

[McLovin]

http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/1799.htm

etc etc .....................

I'm talking about random searches, with no probable cause.

Yes bugger the drug sniffing dogs it's every man's right to carry drugs where ever he likes

No, bugger the right of the majority of those stopped by sniffer dogs who are not carrying drugs and have to go through the humilation of being searched and questioned in public.

• 73% of people identified by the dogs are not carrying drugs
• most drugs detected are small amounts of cannabis
• dogs are failing to detect drug dealers

http://www.nswccl.org.au/issues/sniffer_dogs.php

Good to see we're busting those potheads, they're a real menace. I guess some of us don't like the government interferring in thier life more than others.

 

[MrBurns]

I'm talking about random searches, with no probable cause.

No point bothering with you if you arent causing trouble or staggering around.

If 17% of people are carrying drugs there ya go Guility your Honour.

What we need is more dogs:nono:

 

[Smurf1976]

Does it have to be a majority figure to count ? , go out on a Saturday night walk the streets of your capital city, see how you go.

Been there, done that and have done so sober in several Australian cities.

Looking at the high concentration, mass market areas, observations as follows.

Kings Cross = seriously over hyped beyond reason. The only thing which ever shocked me about the place is how much isn't there. In all honesty, the place is relatively boring compared to the hype.

Gold Coast = dominated by tourists and not a lot of trouble to be seen. Just stay well away when Schoolies is on.

Fortitude Valley (Brisbane) = one of the more scary places to be at night, mostly due to physical characteristics (layout, lighting, bouncers with an attitude etc). Not keen on it.

Waterfront (Hobart) = somewhat scary for a couple of years after Surreal was closed due to the extreme overcrowding of other venues, and it initially got worse with the lockouts and the trend toward "pre-drinks" but it's reasonably under control these days. Even what locals used to call Fight Club doesn't have many fights these days following management getting the message (under threat of losing their liquor license) about needing to get the right mix of people inside.

Anywhere in the Melbourne CBD = stay away from bikies of any description and you'll be fine. Doesn't "feel" that safe but that's more to do with the spread out nature of people (and police) in a CBD environment rather than actual incidents.

Hindley St and surrounds (Adelaide) = very high concentration of both venues and drunks in a relatively small physical area. The prospect of being shot or knifed has occurred to me, and I've been there when shots have been fired, but that's bikies not alcohol which causes that. Top marks to HQ (largest nightclub in Adelaide) with their somewhat over the top security - how foolproof it is I don't know, but at least they seem to be making an actual effort which is more than can be said for most clubs (in any city).

Overall, I'd say that if you see or hear a Harley anywhere near an entertainment district late at night then it's time to go. Likewise avoid anywhere with a concentration of certain nationalities. Alcohol is far less of a problem in my experience.

 

[JTLP]

My 2 cents...

- The government would HATE to introduce anything in reality because they thrive off the tax (smokes and alcohol) that comes from relatively well off Australians (you should be thankful we have high taxes on these things - at least we are in relatively good shape economically (bring on the 2013 election though )).

- There is essentially nothing you can do to curb this unless you price everything to ridiculous proportions (not fair on the rest of the population) or if the government introduces a law that says "if you're drunk and injure yourself then look after yourself - no clogging the emergency department on a Fri/Sat night".

- What Australia really needs is ridiculously harsh penalties to deal with all these murderers and idiots getting 10 years (but that's for another time).

- Lastly - Schoolies was fantastic . We had a fantastic time and it was a great rite of passage. 10 young friends together - celebrating our coming of age essentially.

 

[MrBurns]

Gold Coast = dominated by tourists and not a lot of trouble to be seen. Just stay well away when Schoolies is on.

I think you'll find the Gold Coast has changed a lot.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2011/12/01/370181_gold-coast-news.html

 

[McLovin]

No point bothering with you if you arent causing trouble or staggering around.

Are you for real? You're ideal country is where the police can carry out random searches? How about if they turn up at your house and start going through your stuff, you know, incase they find anything illegal?

ETA: I may have misinterpreted this as sarcasm, I'm not sure.

 

[rumpole]

Yep. Agree, though, Tink, Burnsie seems to have been a bit tarnished by those ABC lefties.

I'm sure the tarnish will rub off over time

 

[MrBurns]

Are you for real? You're ideal country is where the police can carry out random searches? How about if they turn up at your house and start going through your stuff, you know, incase they find anything illegal?

ETA: I may have misinterpreted this as sarcasm, I'm not sure.

Better than your ideal country where men are free to roam around dangerously drunk and carry drugs without fear of detection because .......they have their rights

They wont turn up at my place but you're a real risk, civil libertarians are well known for subversive behaviour and use the civil liberty rant to cover their tracks.

 

[robusta]

Have not read the thread but for me , have spent plenty of time alcohol fueled but violence? Not so much. I am a peace maker.