Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

ABS - ABC Learning Centres

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I think that my religious upbringing has clouded my view on shares like this one.
I see it as not quite right to make money from child care,nursing homes etc.
Perhaps I am not modern enough!
 
I don't think one needs just a religious viewpoint to have a dim view of mass childcare........some of the stories I hear and the science conducted on kids who have intensive exposure to child care centres......well, child care has a dollar value and then there is the rest of it...what is the price of mental illness imposed in the most impressionable years.......we will see the dollar value of that in future years...It's a lot simpler just focusing on good stocks.............
 
Does anyone know when the shares are likely to be out of suspension for trading again??

I wish I could of taken my profit on the day except for damn staff trading rules!
 
This business is a good business they just have crazy people running the show.
and that why it turn into a high debt, high leverage such business that could be brought down to its knee.

With all the problems going on I don't know how they can continue to run the show efficiently in the short term (next 12 months). There be lot of investigation into share trading.. Share holder could sue for non-disclosure etc.

I like this business because there isnt many business around where demand exceed supply, well resource is the other beast :) but with the current management and low ROE I think I sit on the side line and watch it unfold till such time it proven otherwise.
 
It is a fantastic business and as necessary as water and power.
Even more than ever in an economy with the highest employment rate ever.
Hope this garbled message is clear enough for you Dhuy?
 
investorelse said:
It is a fantastic business and as necessary as water and power.
Even more than ever in an economy with the highest employment rate ever.
Hope this garbled message is clear enough for you Dhuy?
Click to expand...

It's absolutely clear, just misguided. As stated by me and others on this thread, ABS was a good small business. Unfortunately the meglomaniac at the helm, in his bid to take over the global childcare industry, has run this good small business into the ground by encumbering it will huge amounts of debt, asking investors to stump up increasingly more capital and then producing ever decreasing returns.

What needs to happen, is for this company to halt it's expansion program, sell off some assets, pay down some debt, and extract better returns from the existing business. However Groves seems intent on growth at any cost. In the latest financial report he plans to continue to open 150 new centres a year. That means , he will have his hand out for more debt and more capital.... and around we go again.
 
Prospector said:
I think you may have trouble convincing the masses on that:

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23301079-462,00.html

Directors should have advised ASX/ASIC of any dealings that may threaten to company

and

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23298064-462,00.html

ABC shareholders are threatening to sue re non-disclosure
Click to expand...

THANKS PROSPECTOR for some actual feedback!
I agree there is an issue to be resolved.
Looking at your links it seems like laywers selfishly only looking for some revenue.
The communication from ABS management to customers has been fantastic,
they are very poor communicators to the other stakeholders, Staff and shareholders I totaly agree.
Dhuy, you say something? Found any more videos on utube to post about???
 
Yes, I do agree with you Investorelse that the only people to make any money out of a shareholder class action will be the lawyers.

People here agree that the ABC learning centres, in Australia, provided an excellent (in most cases) and necessary service to the parents and children. But, as is often the case, the Directors forgot about their key mission - providing that excellent service - and went above and beyond their realms of expertise by seeking out massive debt, and I agree, Dhuka, take over the world in childcare! Or just maybe, their mission was not about childcare at all, but making a global commodity. Their model simply did not work once world factors, in this case, the debt crisis in the US which then moved elsewhere. Their model of debt/expansion worked in Australia but was catastrophic when global issues (as opposed to local Australian issues) came into play. They simply did not know enough about global risks.

And somewhere, someone just has to be accountable for that. And the threat of class action is all that the luckless shareholders have to press that issue. And that is when we get back to lawyers. Who will always get paid first.

They did get one thing right as you say, they communicated to their fee paying customers. But that is probably more the responsibility of each individual child care centre, some of whom got it very right, and others probably got it very wrong due to the different skills in each centre coming into play. But the rest is corporate responsibility, and these people (Board and Directors) obviously got it very very wrong, and that is misleading the market. Big no no in my books.
 
Just be very careful with holding onto this one everyone.

We did own a child care centre for 5 years until recently. The future success of this company is reliant on the families staying, and low unemployment (apart from reducing debt). Parents will not want to be at a child care centre if they think it is a sinking ship. This weeks media attention would put doubt IN EVERY PARENTS MIND!

They may start investigating alternative arrangements IF THEY CAN. I know there sometimes is no choice in the cities, and parents can not just give 2 weeks notice and find another place, particularly in the birth to 2 yrs age group. There are a lot of centres in QLD with space in 2 - 5 yrs, and this is the most lucrative area when full. The babies don't really make any money because of the staff ratios involved. If ABC start losing their 2 - 5 yrs, watch out!
I am only speaking on a general basis.

I believe ABC have had a good run, because in most instances, families will take whatever is available because choice is limited. The media attention ABC has received would be enough to put any family in the mindset of "are we at the best place for our child/ren?". Believe me, they will start doubting the care their child receives and start investigating alternatives! Any little slip up will be seen with more negativity than usual.
 
Prospector,
The customer comminication (letters) came directly from Brisbane head office.
Four letters to customers over three days sent to all centres and the centre directors instructed to ensure they were communicated.
Only one letter to the Staff.(surprise)
As before The corporate resposibilty will no doubt be routed out, This is a wait and see issue until the experts advise in my book. (Thats experts, not you Dhuy).

Before ABC This industry was mainly made up of small busines and husband and wife centre’s ranging from fantastic carers down to even illegal operations.
ABC established and proceeded to set the bar height for providing strucured learning.
I remember being shocked at the Idea of ABC becomming a global provider but thought like all Entrepreneurs Eddie saw a bigger picture the the crowd, ready and personaly prepared to take the risks to see if it can be done.

Good thing Dhuy was not Eddie's business adviser back then other wise Eddie would still be driving a commodore to work everyday and sitting in that first Brisbane centre. Now Eddie is in the terrible position of having 75 million personal dollars stripped away in 24hrs by yet to be fully understood event. He might have to sell his Basketball team? (Dhuy?)

Dhuy, Don't like what Eddie does? just don't invest with him.
Now go start a Eddie Bashing Thread or something.
I am sure the eight banks who approved the debt did review the business plan. Maybe you can offer them your valuable input next time.
 
investorelse said:
I own this stock and am Married to a valuable ABC employee.
I am still happy to be with both.
Click to expand...

Tell me, would this valuable employee be a centre manager earning 28k?

Or perhaps one of the other valuable child care assistants working for wages below the poverty line?

And given your priviledged position, maybe you can tell me what organisations such as Worksafe WA think of ABC "Learning" Centres, about the way they treat their staff; the conditions the staff work in; the incompetent Queensland managers; and the dangers these things all pose to any child attending.
 
Wow chops 28K? double it and you will be closer for a centre director.
Worksafe? I dont know? you asked them yourself yet? You have a duty of care! if you know something, you know! please tells us all Im sure you have some details. (not really)
Poverty line? in WA? LOL.
Not privileged just observing.
Oh well, Looks like another one to add to list...
Chops, I can see why you have racked up 2000 posts, if you have nothing relevent to say don't post.
 
Come on fellas, get off the personal insults!

Basically it has been concluded, that ABS is a high risk, low reward investment!

Not sure why someone would want to hold that. But hey, each to his own. You live with your own decisions at the end of the day.
 
investorelse said:
Prospector,
,,,,,,,,,

Dhuy, Don't like what Eddie does? just don't invest with him.
Now go start a Eddie Bashing Thread or something.
I am sure the eight banks who approved the debt did review the business plan. Maybe you can offer them your valuable input next time.
Click to expand...

An honest dumb question : Did you invest in ABC in current market price before it fell down ?

If not, please STAY AWAY. You will not feel the pain of a large chunk of investors and no matter what big profile Eddie has created to some of the readers of this forum.

  1. First problem is money lost from many investors. Who cares what Eddie did with his money as no one has audited how the money came and how much he already siphoned from balance sheet towards hs own expenses for various things including so called business development expenses.
  2. Second problem is our childrens future - I am more concerned on that. So many child care centers with no future - just because one Eddie and his wife incompetently handled the whole mess in a disgusting and pathetic way.
  3. They are as honourable as any drug peddler in the street who sell drugs to children and minor. At least teh drug peddlers do not rob other dad and mum's money. Eddie and his lovely educated wife with education degrees did both damages.
  4. If this country was Bali, Singapore or Thailand - They would have been shot.
  5. THat is my feeling and I am not making any apology here to speak out my heart without any prejudice.
(sorry Could not check the spellings )
 
Hi Miner the answer is yes.
but if you bother to read you would have seen this.
BTW I personally know people who have made an absolute killing that had this company shorted as it was an obvious call if you bothered to look at the Trend.
I didn't short them BTW cause I have other larger investments to manage on my hands at the time.
Truth is In a worst case senario for ABC is where I would profit most due to my intimate knowlege of this industry and people for the last 15 +years.
But obvously that means nothing here.

I don't actualy care what happens to this stock or its investors because I don't influence it. They have all made their own decisions on that.

You are Just another to be added to the list, Why? making uneducated fantastical comments about things you obviuosly don't understand.

For the record ABC pay staff more then the other providers that I have any knowlege of in the area I know.

It will be an intersting Directors conference next week in ABC's home.

Admin, This thread should be closed, nothing of value in it...

Goodbye...
 
However you look at it,the white shoe brigade have been sent a clear message if you are a paper tiger you are fair game,whatever way has been
employed to flushout the margin calls it now shows all punters the extent of
how debt has been used to build empires on everyone else's money.its a big
wake up call for these types of companies,rest assured trendsetters there will be more they are still at the A's...ABC,AFG,AED?,next up BNB...:D
 
investorelse said:
Prospector,
The customer comminication (letters) came directly from Brisbane head office.
Four letters to customers over three days sent to all centres and the centre directors instructed to ensure they were communicated.
Only one letter to the Staff.(surprise)
As before The corporate resposibilty will no doubt be routed out, This is a wait and see issue until the experts advise in my book. (Thats experts, not you Dhuy).

Before ABC This industry was mainly made up of small busines and husband and wife centre’s ranging from fantastic carers down to even illegal operations.
ABC established and proceeded to set the bar height for providing strucured learning.
I remember being shocked at the Idea of ABC becomming a global provider but thought like all Entrepreneurs Eddie saw a bigger picture the the crowd, ready and personaly prepared to take the risks to see if it can be done.

Good thing Dhuy was not Eddie's business adviser back then other wise Eddie would still be driving a commodore to work everyday and sitting in that first Brisbane centre. Now Eddie is in the terrible position of having 75 million personal dollars stripped away in 24hrs by yet to be fully understood event. He might have to sell his Basketball team? (Dhuy?)

Dhuy, Don't like what Eddie does? just don't invest with him.
Now go start a Eddie Bashing Thread or something.
I am sure the eight banks who approved the debt did review the business plan. Maybe you can offer them your valuable input next time.
Click to expand...

Still haven't moved on I see. No experts needed to see where this company was headed. The half year report confirmed what was already known for those who bothered to look past the hype.

Who cares what kind of car Eddie drives? What's under discussion is the business of ABS and it's likely future performance. That is now more obvious than it has ever been. Again, no experts needed to get a handle on that.

I don't and never have invested with Eddie and if you had a clue about what constitutes a good investment neither would you. However your emotional attachment (always a big mistake) and your lack of understanding of business principles prevents you from making informed decisions.
 
Miner said:
An honest dumb question : Did you invest in ABC in current market price before it fell down ?

If not, please STAY AWAY. You will not feel the pain of a large chunk of investors and no matter what big profile Eddie has created to some of the readers of this forum.

  1. First problem is money lost from many investors. Who cares what Eddie did with his money as no one has audited how the money came and how much he already siphoned from balance sheet towards hs own expenses for various things including so called business development expenses.
  2. Second problem is our childrens future - I am more concerned on that. So many child care centers with no future - just because one Eddie and his wife incompetently handled the whole mess in a disgusting and pathetic way.
  3. They are as honourable as any drug peddler in the street who sell drugs to children and minor. At least teh drug peddlers do not rob other dad and mum's money. Eddie and his lovely educated wife with education degrees did both damages.
  4. If this country was Bali, Singapore or Thailand - They would have been shot.
  5. THat is my feeling and I am not making any apology here to speak out my heart without any prejudice.
(sorry Could not check the spellings )
Click to expand...

Miner sounds like you don't want anyone buying in with passion so obviously your not long, you didn't get caught short by any chance?
 

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