Aboriginal?

[3 veiws of a secret]

I have a very cynical veiw on these types of topics, I thought 'Aboriginal ' only related to 'Ozzyites'.....but silly me never thought Canadians call their native Indians as ABORIGINALS also !
Furthermore ,whilst flying back from Bombay ,I chanced onto an Indian student studying nursing in Melbourne.When asked what's a matter with the Indian system? he replies in broken Ind'lish 'a diploma from Oz goes further then an Indian one.'
Lastly my daughters godfather ,who collects degrees,by the wheelbarrow,admitted to me ,that he actively scoured his family tree for a link to Aboriginal status(which a genuine link was found ).When asked why bother ,he muttered with red wine in hand "SCHOOL FEES!!!!". Which makes me think who is taking advantage of what systems.
I just chuckle about this ,and what happens in the outback,does the average Westerner really want to know what's happening outside metropolitan Australia. I doubt it!

 

[crackaton]

In principal, I agree. But the sad fact is, we don't treat them as equals. Yes they get extra benefits (it sorta irks my egalitarian tendancies as well), but the disadvantage of being aboriginal, surely outweigh that.

I live in a town where the indiginous population is about 7%... about 2500 people. About 100 of those are real troublemakers, the rest just ordinary humans trying to make their way through life as best they can. Yet the rest are regarded as if they were the worst 100. Racism is rife here, it's ugly - disgusting. I could tell you some stories...

The thing is with humans, is that they tend to live up to the reputation people give them. If the reputation is in the pits, deservedly or not, It becomes very diffucult then for that group to progress socially or economically.

I haven't a clue what the answer is, but equality cuts both ways. How about we treat them like humans... give them a hand up so to speak. Then we can stop the hand-outs.

You know, I have spoken with lots of people. Some educated some not. I guess it depends on their attitude, maybe even the initial words. One thing I know. Liars never look you straight in the eye and speak the truth.

 

[wayneL]

You know, I have spoken with lots of people. Some educated some not. I guess it depends on their attitude, maybe even the initial words. One thing I know. Liars never look you straight in the eye and speak the truth.

too cryptic for me cracka. What does it all mean?

 

[rederob]

These benifits that "aboriginal " people receive don't help their cause..... they only make real australians less sympathetic!

You might like to elaborate on these.
So far in every thread where you have been challenged for some substantiation of your points, you have not been obliging.
In most aboriginal communities there are few work opportunities, and those that receive benefits have pretty much the same entitlements as white people that would be in the same predicament of disadvantage.
It is true that there are specific benefits for aboriginals, just as there are for people with disabilities, sole supporting parents, carers, and other groups that face a disadvantage in society.
Unfortunately many people assume that because somebody says that aboriginals get lots of benefits, it must be true.
crackaton thinks that aboriginals get free loans - but has no evidence for this because it just is not true.
As for getting work, and "floating to the top", there are some incredibly talented aboriginal artists that have been incredibly ripped off by gifted white people and (lived or) are still living in relative poverty. Fortunately today a lot more recognition is being afforded to aboriginal artists and many are now getting paid fairly for their works: By the way, these artists are what we would usually describe as "traditional", whatever connotation you want to place on that.
This thread is mostly about empty vessels sounding off, from what I have read.
It's not so much that racism exists, but that ignorance of the facts is more rife - perhaps these go hand in glove.
One fact that is not lost is the names that reappear on these types of threads.
But don't let me stop you from displaying your in depth knowledge of the manifold goings on in Australian contemporary society.
It's almost as challenging as picking bottoms!

 

[rederob]

Liars never look you straight in the eye and speak the truth.

Wayne
What's hard about that that?
To gain the correct meaning you translate key words about liars into their exact opposites, thus:
"Liars always look you straight in the eye and speak lies."

Which is somewhat counter-intuitive from my experience.
Perhaps crackaton mixes with an interesting group of people!

 

[wayneL]

Wayne
What's hard about that that?
To gain the correct meaning you translate key words about liars into their exact opposites, thus:
"Liars always look you straight in the eye and speak lies."

Which is somewhat counter-intuitive from my experience.
Perhaps crackaton mixes with an interesting group of people!

Well having never read Junge or Freud, I am struggling with the context.

I am always befuddled by such conundrums.

 

[visual]

How and why did this thread descend to racism,
there are huge problems in some aboriginal communities ,even today on the news the startling statistic that aboriginal men under 16 actually suffer sexual assaults at a staggering rate compared to the white communities,the AMA wants peace keepers in these communities,why does no one acknowledge this.
Forget the government benefits someone should just tell these political correct people,who continually bleat about the stolen generation to shut up because their actions and words are actually killing innocent children .

I think that in this day and age we have some knowledge about how to preserve the good aspect of aboriginal life and not alienating aboriginals from their our culture and lifestyle,so if it means removing these children to a safe place and educating them,who knows they might actually be able to combine the two cultures to finally get something good out of all the suffering.Just a thought.

 

[sarahmeehan3]

We'll I cannot believe this debate on a stockmarket forum.

Let me clarify a few things, so that we are all clear.

1/ Cheap housing loans are only available to the value of 140,000. They are offered at 1% for people on low incomes and I do mean low incomes. It is designed to help the aboriginal people to become ownership of property and develop their community. Most of these loans are for people who live in places of the such as Shepparton Vic and many parts of W.A. outback.

No, not everyone gets the cheap loan and it is checked by the elders of each area.

Yes, the government is incouraging many aboriginals such as myself to be educated so that there is less reliance on government handouts. I am educated and do very well out of the stock market. All of my income comes from the stock market. I have not relied on government handouts and encourage all other aboriginals to do the same.

The government passed laws some time ago that allowed up to 6th generation aboriginals to be classified as aboriginals.

As for myself, my past is in tasmania. My grandmother who was part aboriginal told me what happend to her family and where she came from. Under the White policy in Tasmania at the time most of our family were shot or hanged. Many of the English sailors at the time raped many aboriginal women. It is with thanks to the nuns who started a convent in Tasmania that I am writing this today. They protected some aboriginals and thats where our family starts from.

I encourage in my volunteer work with the aboriginals how they can better themselves all the time. I want them to succeed, because I know that relying on government handouts does very little to help their lifestyle.

I better stop. I can go on forever, but it is not up to me to explain everything. Why not, volunteer to do something in your community and you will soon realise how lucky you really are.

I need to get back to the stock market. This is what this forum is all about. Lets continue to learn together how we can make a little more money.
Hopefully the Australian Market will pick up.

Regard

Sarah

 

[RichKid]

I have a very cynical veiw on these types of topics, I thought 'Aboriginal ' only related to 'Ozzyites'.....but silly me never thought Canadians call their native Indians as ABORIGINALS also !
Furthermore ,whilst flying back from Bombay ,I chanced onto an Indian student studying nursing in Melbourne.When asked what's a matter with the Indian system? he replies in broken Ind'lish 'a diploma from Oz goes further then an Indian one.'
Lastly my daughters godfather ,who collects degrees,by the wheelbarrow,admitted to me ,that he actively scoured his family tree for a link to Aboriginal status(which a genuine link was found ).When asked why bother ,he muttered with red wine in hand "SCHOOL FEES!!!!". Which makes me think who is taking advantage of what systems.
I just chuckle about this ,and what happens in the outback,does the average Westerner really want to know what's happening outside metropolitan Australia. I doubt it!

Just had a look at this thread thread, didn't realise it had got so long.

Firstly, aborigine (ab origin) means 'from the beginning' ie those who were there from the beginning. My Latin is hopeless but that's the gist of it. So it can apply to various indigenous communities.

Also, if non-Aboriginals rort the system why should genuine Aboriginals be blamed?

About this business of eye contact, it's a cultural thing- it's unreasonable to pin someone down as dishonest based on that alone imho, I didn't think people still used it as a hard and fast rule. The Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody report will have a good discussion of it ih the context of policing, just google it.

I agree with your recent post rederob. Ignorance can lead to many misconceptions; but you also have people who are well informed but choose to act in wicked ways.

btw, nice show of technique with the negatives in that sentence.

See this article for an illustration of some of the cultural differences, does this mean we should treat the original inhabitants badly because we have power over them, and because it's convenient for the majority? You don't have to live in the bush and dress like a 'native' to be an Aboriginal. There is an inherent danger in judging a person's character and sense of identity by their physical appearance alone (eg skin colour, attire, body language): http://www.smh.com.au/news/film/in-search-of-lost-time/2006/05/18/1147545448698.html

 

[wayneL]

Rich, Red,

What am I missing with this eyes and lying business? I'm lost.

 

[rederob]

Sarah
I hope thestock market improves too.
Actually, I think that's a pretty safe call in the medium term, so am not too worried for the moment.
As for housing loans, only around 500 are approved annually under federal funding each year, while some States have supplementary programs.
For example, I believe about 40-50 loans are given in WA each year, but with a $250k price cap and interest around 6%.
Similar programs are also available for non-aboriginal people in some States to purchase former Housing Commission homes.

On the issue of "racism" per se, I would guarantee that if a community of white Australians were ever found in the same living conditions as exist in some remote aboriginal communities, there would be national outrage: They have not; there is not. It is a state of affairs we are inured to.

 

[RichKid]

How about we do that when they are no longer treated as second class citizens. Would you trade places with an aborigine for a few extra dollars of dole money a week? Something tells me you wouldn't.

I can't imagine the amount of prejudice and discrimination they must experience on a daily basis. Have some empathy and don't be so quick to judge.

People should watch blue eyes/brown eyes, I saw the US version, here's the site for the Australian one, very powerful if you can watch the entire experiment, it will move you, it's a shame these things really happened in America (and continue to happen), how can humans be so wicked to each other? http://www.sbs.com.au/australianeye/

btw, 'benefits' are often intended to put people on par with others or to at least bring them upto a basic level of comfort. In that sense it may be a misnomer in that it suggests you get something extra, we may have to view the term in a different light.

For eg, $100 given to a poor family may help prevent starvation or malnourishment; give the same $100 to a better off family (who call it 'a handout' when in the hands of a more disadvantaged family) and it may go on the mortgage or school uniforms- the latter items are clearly luxuries for the first family. And yes, a mortgage can be a luxury to some, that is sad.

What is worse is that when people focus on these things they just blame the Aboriginal beneficiaries when criticising any flaws in the system.

 

[rederob]

Rich, Red,

What am I missing with this eyes and lying business? I'm lost.

So was crackaton, I would bet!

It is a cultural issue whereby eyes down is typically a sign of respect. Rather than it being a "lie", it is more likely a compliment.

 

[RichKid]

So was crackaton, I would bet!

It is a cultural issue whereby eyes down is typically a sign of respect. Rather than it being a "lie", it is more likely a compliment.

Yes, that's right, a sign of deference to authority in some Asian cultures, like bowing your head as the schoolmaster scolds you. To stare straight into a person's eyes can be a threat- like in the animal kingdom, you stare at or show your teeth to a monkey and it may rip your eyes out. In medieval Japan a samurai was justified in beheading a peasant if he wasn't on all fours with his eyes to the ground.

 

[wayneL]

IC

Thanks chaps, got it

 

[crackaton]

How and why did this thread descend to racism,
there are huge problems in some aboriginal communities ,even today on the news the startling statistic that aboriginal men under 16 actually suffer sexual assaults at a staggering rate compared to the white communities,the AMA wants peace keepers in these communities,why does no one acknowledge this.
Forget the government benefits someone should just tell these political correct people,who continually bleat about the stolen generation to shut up because their actions and words are actually killing innocent children .

I think that in this day and age we have some knowledge about how to preserve the good aspect of aboriginal life and not alienating aboriginals from their our culture and lifestyle,so if it means removing these children to a safe place and educating them,who knows they might actually be able to combine the two cultures to finally get something good out of all the suffering.Just a thought.

You know what gets me? Every know and again the media gets bored and has to beat up yet another story. These sorts of problems have been around for years. And then shock horror we need a new headline for the morning rag because there isn't a war happening or two guys stuck down a whole or whatever. Perhaps some people should just get a life rather than watching the idiot box or reading regurgitated crap.

 

[crackaton]

We'll I cannot believe this debate on a stockmarket forum.

Let me clarify a few things, so that we are all clear.

1/ Cheap housing loans are only available to the value of 140,000. They are offered at 1% for people on low incomes and I do mean low incomes. It is designed to help the aboriginal people to become ownership of property and develop their community. Most of these loans are for people who live in places of the such as Shepparton Vic and many parts of W.A. outback.

No, not everyone gets the cheap loan and it is checked by the elders of each area.

Yes, the government is incouraging many aboriginals such as myself to be educated so that there is less reliance on government handouts. I am educated and do very well out of the stock market. All of my income comes from the stock market. I have not relied on government handouts and encourage all other aboriginals to do the same.

The government passed laws some time ago that allowed up to 6th generation aboriginals to be classified as aboriginals.

As for myself, my past is in tasmania. My grandmother who was part aboriginal told me what happend to her family and where she came from. Under the White policy in Tasmania at the time most of our family were shot or hanged. Many of the English sailors at the time raped many aboriginal women. It is with thanks to the nuns who started a convent in Tasmania that I am writing this today. They protected some aboriginals and thats where our family starts from.

I encourage in my volunteer work with the aboriginals how they can better themselves all the time. I want them to succeed, because I know that relying on government handouts does very little to help their lifestyle.

I better stop. I can go on forever, but it is not up to me to explain everything. Why not, volunteer to do something in your community and you will soon realise how lucky you really are.

I need to get back to the stock market. This is what this forum is all about. Lets continue to learn together how we can make a little more money.
Hopefully the Australian Market will pick up.

Regard

Sarah

Well said sarah, and I believe your wishes will come true

 

[Stan 101]

Little bit of English 101.

Aboriginee is a noun. EG: I am an aboriginee.
Aboriginal is an adjective, not a noun. It describes the noun. EG: I am an aboriginal person.


Rant over.




Cheers,

 

[rederob]

Little bit of English 101.
Aboriginee is a noun. EG: I am an aboriginee.
Aboriginal is an adjective, not a noun. It describes the noun. EG: I am an aboriginal person.

Sanqar
Please do another English 101 and help me find out what an aboriginee is.
Could it be a person who was formerly an aboriginal?

 

[mista200]

I know "white" Australians that live at or below the level of many aboriginals and yet they don't get the benefits that the aboriginals get....

If we want a fairer system that still helps the "aboriginals" why don't we just class people as people...not as aboriginal or white and then give out handouts according to need.

Yes im sure i can't imagine living in outback community ....at the end of the day they should move and get a job!