2014 Victorian Election

[noco]

And 97% of climate scientists




How much money will Victoria save by not building the WestConnex (or whatever it's called) ?

This was a pork barrell election promise by the Federal and State Libs which backfired. Victorians obviously think there are better ways of spending the money, and as you don't live there I don't see how you can tell them what to think.

A survey indicated 60% of Victorians wanted the East/West freeway.

 

[SirRumpole]

A survey indicated 60% of Victorians wanted the East/West freeway.

Another survey, called an election, indicated that that wasn't really all that important to a lot of Victorians.

 

[overhang]

A survey indicated 60% of Victorians wanted the East/West freeway.

Well if that's the case then shouldn't we have kept the carbon tax Noco?

The automated phone poll of 1369 people was conducted last weekend and revealed 62 per cent of respondents wanted to keep the price on carbon and 38 per cent wanted it removed even if doing so damaged revenue.

Or do polls only count when they suit our predisposition? http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...t-to-keep-carbon-tax-poll-20130713-2px4d.html

 

[Calliope]

THE unprecedented union ground campaign that ousted the Napthine government — including firefighters, nurses and paramedics door-knocking in fake uniforms — will be repeated in a bid to make Tony Abbott a one-term prime minister.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...tory-in-victoria/story-fnqetyrp-1227141406596

 

[trainspotter]

Labor replicated the latest campaign techniques from the United States and incorporated them into its traditional campaign machine built around the labour movement. Helped along by the Coalition's demonisation of unions, Trades Hall spent the past eight months mobilising thousands of union volunteers – fire fighters, paramedics, nurses, teachers and others – converting them into a "boots on the ground" campaign army.

The Labor field campaign made more than 500,000 phone calls, including 23,000 on the Thursday night before polling day. It also door-knocked more than 170,000 homes. Meanwhile, the Trades Hall campaign involved 2200 union volunteers who door knocked 93,000 homes and made 123,000 phone calls in six marginal seats – Frankston, Bentleigh, Mordialloc, Carrum, Monbulk and Bellarine.

Doorknocking can be a thankless task. On average, one in four people shut the door on you. With someone in uniform, it never happens.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/vi...ns-blew-up-the-coalition-20141130-11x325.html

Touche'

 

[Julia]

I'm not explod,

That's for sure.

but you may be interested in this

Thank you, Rumpole. At this stage I've only had a chance to quickly scan the link.

My main concern goes to the validity of the peer review process. I've come across several accounts of scientists saying they have done detailed work which contradicts the popular consensus, but because of the dominant philosophy their submissions for publication are refused.

This sort of selective publication goes on all the time in many areas, as we all know.

Anyway, I should stay out of this particular argument. I have no training in the area and therefore no genuine capacity to evaluate any claims one way or the other.

 

[explod]

Global Warming is propaganda pushed by the ABC and the Guardian.

Ah yes lets talk about the Victorian election....the CFMEU has now gained control of Victoria.....we will be watching Victoria sliding down the hill into the quagmire of bigger debt and deficit just like all the other Labor operations state and federal.

Our debt is £8,600 per head, the US is £56,000

There is just no comparison. And you have to borrow to invest in the future. So stop worrying about the debt. The money the libs were going to spend in Easr West on public transport will have huge benefits on this state.

 

[IFocus]

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/vi...ns-blew-up-the-coalition-20141130-11x325.html

Touche'

Vic Labor put a human face on the union tag, clever messaging so every time the Vic Coalition bashed unions they were doing Labor a favour.

 

[trainspotter]

Vic Labor put a human face on the union tag, clever messaging so every time the Vic Coalition bashed unions they were doing Labor a favour.

For once I agree with you. The Labor strategists used the old "union card" to humanise the proletariat into voting for them. Libs have a lot to learn with QLD and Federal coming up and not to rely on the big end of town to rescue them this time. Suits vs Blue Collar or Blue vs Red over and over again becomes dull to the mug punter voter. Introduction of nurses, police and firefighters (in uniform) doorknocking for politics (read Labor politicians) is a unique concept for the Australian political landscape. How can the blue bloods hit back? Send Kerry Stokes, Rupert Murdoch et al around to every door knob in marginal seats and beg for forgiveness?

Unlikely IMO

 

[moXJO]

I'm not explod, but you may be interested in this

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...treet-journal-denies-global-warming-consensus

Ask the right questions and everyone is onboard. The extremes from either side have muddled and politicised what shouldn't have even been an argument in the first place.

Investigative journalists at Popular Technology looked into precisely which papers were classified within Cook’s asserted 97 percent. The investigative journalists found Cook and his colleagues strikingly classified papers by such prominent, vigorous skeptics as Willie Soon, Craig Idso, Nicola Scafetta, Nir Shaviv, Nils-Axel Morner and Alan Carlin as supporting the 97-percent consensus.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/

As for the Vic election it wasn't that big of a surprise. The ar$e end of Australia SA,Vic and TAS tend to lean towards labor/Greens. While libs blew up during their term, I have no doubt Victorians would have been worse of if labor had of stayed in power last election.In my opinion libs needed one more term to shake out the non performers and get the state further back on track.
The other thing with Victoria is the unions operate like the mafia down there. I had the misfortune of witnessing some of the absurdities that go on. God help you this term.
Where the libs are losing badly is the social media battlefront and (supposedly) homegrown campaigns. Labor has pushed the 'Tony Abbott is bad' very successfully.

 

[basilio]

That's for sure.


Thank you, Rumpole. At this stage I've only had a chance to quickly scan the link.

My main concern goes to the validity of the peer review process. I've come across several accounts of scientists saying they have done detailed work which contradicts the popular consensus, but because of the dominant philosophy their submissions for publication are refused.

This sort of selective publication goes on all the time in many areas, as we all know.

.

Well would you offer a better process? Peer review means scientists in the same field carefully scan submitted work to ensure that at least the figures add up and that the paper adheres to basic principles of analysis, observation and scholarship. Even if one might disagree with the writers point if these other factors are ok it will be accepted by scientific journals.

The "complaints" by some scientists that their work is not accepted for some journals ignores the fact that their work is fundamentally flawed and demonstrated to be so. And in any case the discussion about the weight of scientific acceptance of the principals of global warming isn't dependent on 5, 10 or 20 papers that some scientists insist should be published.

The fact is any analysis of the research as documented in Sir Rumples link shows that the overwhelming mass of papers accepts that we have substantial global warming. A smaller section will directly look at the possible causes of this warming and come to the conclusion human activity is largely (but not totally ) responsible. Another section of the research will examine the consequences on this warming in ecosystems, ocean warming, melting of ice and so on.

It is this body of evidence that climate change deniers et al simply dismiss.

 

[sptrawler]

For once I agree with you. The Labor strategists used the old "union card" to humanise the proletariat into voting for them. Libs have a lot to learn with QLD and Federal coming up and not to rely on the big end of town to rescue them this time. Suits vs Blue Collar or Blue vs Red over and over again becomes dull to the mug punter voter. Introduction of nurses, police and firefighters (in uniform) doorknocking for politics (read Labor politicians) is a unique concept for the Australian political landscape. How can the blue bloods hit back? Send Kerry Stokes, Rupert Murdoch et al around to every door knob in marginal seats and beg for forgiveness?

Unlikely IMO

Yes, and payback for the support will be forthcoming, it will be interesting to see how Victoria is faring in 2 years.

 

[noco]

Yes, and payback for the support will be forthcoming, it will be interesting to see how Victoria is faring in 2 years.

They will finish up like every other state and federal governments run by Labor...Labor just cannot manage money....big credit card spenders.

 

[explod]

They will finish up like every other state and federal governments run by Labor...Labor just cannot manage money....big credit card spenders.

Rubbish, under Cain we did well in Victoria, Hawk and Keating did well. The recession we had was caused by the world economic situation.

The libs looked good by following Thatcherism, and selling everything but the kitchen sink. Phones, water and electricity should be regarded asbasic needs to the average community. Privatisation ultimately takes away jobs which in turn increases welfare (dole) payments.

And the dole distribution and supervising brings it close to equal cost. Unemployed end in illness, drug problems domestic crime and one could go on showing the inhumane and costly approach of the Libs.

 

[IFocus]

They will finish up like every other state and federal governments run by Labor...Labor just cannot manage money....big credit card spenders.

Actually in WA Labor run surpluses with Ripper as treasurer while the Coalition now run deficits

 

[sptrawler]

Actually in WA Labor run surpluses with Ripper as treasurer while the Coalition now run deficits

Yes, put in hospitals that have been needed for 30 years.

You really are rusted on.
Barnett has fought for W.A more than most Premiers, but Labor self interest just can't acknowlege it.
Sad really, honest John was the last decent Labor person.
Several since him ended up in gaol.
As Kim Beasley SNR said, it is a shame Labor has been taken over by undesirables, or something to that effect.
Actually sorry Allan Carpenter was a Labor person and a reporter with admirable principles, there isn't many.
Just a self serving nasty bunch of hypocrites.IMO

 

[Julia]

Well would you offer a better process? Peer review means scientists in the same field carefully scan submitted work to ensure that at least the figures add up and that the paper adheres to basic principles of analysis, observation and scholarship. Even if one might disagree with the writers point if these other factors are ok it will be accepted by scientific journals.

You describe the ideal. That's a long way from knowing that such a process actually takes place.


A relative of mine in Sydney, a medical researcher who had been working on a particular aspect of neurology, had his grant money run out. He drove taxis for a year or so, desperate to stop such an existence.
Applied for a job with some climate research organisation, making it clear that he had no qualifications in the area, and was interviewed. Told "don't worry about that, we'll soon have you understanding how to fulfil the job requirements: we give you all the guidelines about the expected outcomes".
He withdrew his application.

I have nothing to add to this thread. I've already said that I don't have any training or specific understanding so am not in a position to make any qualified comment other than anecdotal stuff like the above and the general impression of hysteria which has turned many people off.

 

[Smurf1976]

we give you all the guidelines about the expected outcomes

Sounds like how governments use management, policy etc consultants.

Engage consultant, tell them the requirements (outcome) to be delivered, consultant writes report recommending that outcome, government says they're acting on the advice of consultants in making the decision.

Been there, seen that game.

 

[IFocus]

Yes, put in hospitals that have been needed for 30 years.

You really are rusted on.
Barnett has fought for W.A more than most Premiers, but Labor self interest just can't acknowlege it.
Sad really, honest John was the last decent Labor person.
Several since him ended up in gaol.
As Kim Beasley SNR said, it is a shame Labor has been taken over by undesirables, or something to that effect.
Actually sorry Allan Carpenter was a Labor person and a reporter with admirable principles, there isn't many.
Just a self serving nasty bunch of hypocrites.IMO

Can you check your medication levels

I like Barny he is doing a great job (one man government) just a pity he has absolutely no one else in his government who is any good.

Your memory is fading, Liberal and Labor have had their issues with corruption all be it Labor won that one with Burke but the Libs are not clean skins (Ray O’Connor).


Remember Geoff Gallop

 

[Tisme]

Actually in WA Labor run surpluses with Ripper as treasurer while the Coalition now run deficits

yes it is mind boggling that WA has had so much inflow of money, a major increase in population and yet there seems to be very little to show for it, except a rather large overt and underlying latent debt.