Resisting Climate Hysteria

[wayneL]

On overview many of our positions I now admit are not too distant on the issues at all.

The cost is a big matter and so is belief, it is a very emotional mix. I had not realised that the word "denier" was such a problem or the bad connotations it connects with for some people.

Plod

You will note that those who disagree with the big bang theory (electric universe theory etc) are not called big bang deniers.

Those who disagree with the prevailing theory of evolution are not called evolution deniers.

There are no Higgs Boson deniers; to my knowledge there are only two field where dissenters are referred to as deniers:

1/ The Jewish Holocaust

2/ Anthropogenic climate change

Do you wonder why AGW sceptics take exception to the term?

 

[Logique]

Also climate sceptics believe in a flat earth, they disbelieve gravity, they disbelieve that cigarettes lead to lung cancer, they disbelieve that asbestos causes mesothelioma, and they disbelieve Darwinian evolution.

The Green propaganda is clever and persuasive, but perhaps (at last) people are starting to wake up?

https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa...kYXmDQ&usg=AFQjCNHdeWFfiz98JRukY5JJKHj08x8SSg - Tolkien - Lord of the Rings - Ch10

Saruman was shown that the power of his voice was waning. He cannot be both tyrant and counsellor. When the plot is ripe it remains no longer secret. Yet he fell into the trap, and tried to deal with his victims piece-meal, while others listened.

 

[Knobby22]

Lord of the Rings...Cool.

Made me decide to change my avatar to Gimli.

Wayne what made you decide to go female on us?

 

[wayneL]

Wayne what made you decide to go female on us?

You had to have been following the "Day Trading Futures" thread. The avatar has run its course now, but I lagging on changing it because... well, she is responsible for my own personal hockey stick graph.

 

[trainspotter]

You had to have been following the "Day Trading Futures" thread. The avatar has run its course now, but I lagging on changing it because... well, she is responsible for my own personal hockey stick graph.

Impressive hockey stick graph. Are you using the principal components analysis method or employing a variety of statistical techniques ? :

 

[wayneL]

Impressive hockey stick graph. Are you using the principal components analysis method or employing a variety of statistical techniques ? :

Empirical observation.

 

[bandicoot76]

On overview many of our positions I now admit are not too distant on the issues at all.

The cost is a big matter and so is belief, it is a very emotional mix. I had not realised that the word "denier" was such a problem or the bad connotations it connects with for some people. However some people will put on a reaction to weaken another side of the argument too. To my mind words are merely that, it is the overall intent behind them that is important. In my past I have had to turn the other cheek to some frightfull descriptions but have always tried to see beyond that to the real cause. I am a bit slow on the uptake sometimes but we can only do our best and nor should we be deterred from putting all of our views and ideas forward.

Some of the observations of the last few posts have been very good and food for thought.

explod, NOBODY wants to live in a polluted wasteland! NOBODY wants to see environmental destruction, NOBODY wants an overpopulated unsusustainable chaotic future for our descendants... no not even oil or coal executives wants chaotic climate destruction!!! to think otherwiose is insane!!! all skeptics want is to know that any policies put in place are scientifically proven, will have a definate positive impact and are not just another scheme by parasites to use the environment as an excuse for a devious cash grab!!!!!

 

[sails]

explod, NOBODY wants to live in a polluted wasteland! NOBODY wants to see environmental destruction, NOBODY wants an overpopulated unsusustainable chaotic future for our descendants... no not even oil or coal executives wants chaotic climate destruction!!! to think otherwiose is insane!!! all skeptics want is to know that any policies put in place are scientifically proven, will have a definate positive impact and are not just another scheme by parasites to use the environment as an excuse for a devious cash grab!!!!!

Well said, Bandicoot76...

 

[Julia]

Well said, Bandicoot76...

+1.

 

[Logique]

...Wayne what made you decide to go female on us?

Yes in context that avatar is unnerving...yet of itself strangely interesting.

 

[explod]

Yes in context that avatar is unnerving...yet of itself strangely interesting.

My wife sitting some distance away watching the TV is allways asking, who is that woman you are looking at all the time. Me "just arguing about the envoronment"

 

[Logique]

Lord of the Rings...Cool.
Made me decide to change my avatar to Gimli..

Apologies everybody, but I digress on this glorious winter Saturday in SE NSW. Wish the Swans vs Collingwood was today instead of tonight. Not that it would increase our chances (..grumble).

Knobby, I join with with actor Christopher Lee on this - I cannot believe that director Peter Jackson left the Saruman at Orthanc scene on the cutting room floor. Dramatically a key highlight of the story, but what did we get instead? A few extra minutes of monster scenes! Not good enough in an otherwise fine production.

 

[Knobby22]

Apologies everybody, but I digress on this glorious winter Saturday in SE NSW. Wish the Swans vs Collingwood was today instead of tonight. Not that it would increase our chances (..grumble).

Knobby, I join with with actor Christopher Lee on this - I cannot believe that director Peter Jackson left the Saruman at Orthanc scene on the cutting room floor. Dramatically a key highlight of the story, but what did we get instead? A few extra minutes of monster scenes! Not good enough in an otherwise fine production.

True, I suppose it was getting too long, the Hobbits being taken over by his men didn't happen either.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

It is 22/13 in Townsville today and tonight, and 24/15 for tomorrow.

No change discerned from previous years.

Modelling said different in 2001.

gg

 

[sails]

It is 22/13 in Townsville today and tonight, and 24/15 for tomorrow.

No change discerned from previous years.

Modelling said different in 2001.

gg

Quite chilly here on the Gold Coast for us Qlders. When coming out of a resturant tonight with friends and while wrapping scarves around our necks to keep the cold out, we were laughing about global warming nonsense...

 

[OzWaveGuy]

Freezing here in CBR. Can someone shower cbr in CO2, Julia needs sizzling heat for her next interview on deadly CO2 gas and a tax we just need to have. Perhaps an experiment Knobby can run?

Apparently the hands are at twelve, we can no longer wait for action...but what is really needed is a large dose of actual evidence of man's 3% CO2 gas contribution driving earth to be chased by the hounds of hell and to support all the disaster scenarios pontificated by alarmists ...any luck on observed evidence basilio...

Consider how Gore looks to the skeptics. The peril is imminent, he says. It is desperate. The hands of the clock point to twelve. The seas rise, the coral dies, the fires burn and the great droughts have already begun. The hounds of Hell have slipped the huntsman’s leash and even now they rush upon us, mouths agape and fangs afoam.

But grave as that danger is, Al Gore can consume more carbon than whole villages in the developing world. He can consume more electricity than most African schools, incur more carbon debt with one trip in a private plane than most of the earth’s toiling billions will pile up in a lifetime ”” and he doesn’t worry.​

Sound familiar? Plenty of pontification, but no individual action themselves.

 

[Knobby22]

Now the previous experiment proved that carbon dioxide is a greenhous gas.

Oz wave guy , that does not mean it is posion, it is a necessary trace gas that we need. Any secondary student knows this who pays attention in science class, so can you frop this point as it is patronising. See if you can read this all the way through (like it the other way?)

This experiment shows the effect at trace levels.
Experiment #2: Carbon dioxide chamber.
Maybe you've heard someone like John Coleman -- former weatherman on 'Good Morning, America!' and the founder of The Weather Channel -- telling people that global warming is a scam because carbon dioxide is only a trace gas, and therefore can't have a large impact on our planetary weather. Here's a simple at-home experiment which proves him DEAD WRONG.
You'll need:
1.) An empty 2-liter soda bottle, label removed. 2.) A thermometer. Maybe two. 3.) A piece of narrow cardboard, long enough to cover the thermometer. 4.) A heat-lamp. 5.) An ordinary balloon. 6.) Some thread & tape. 7.) Some dry ice. 8.) A small syringe (without a needle) or eye-dropper.
Take the cardboard and tape it to the thermometer. This will shield it from the heat lamp so that the light from it doesn't give an artificially high temperature. (We want the temperature of the air, not the temperature of the glass.) Attach the string to the cardboard and thermometer and suspend it inside the empty 2-liter soda bottle, using some tape on the inside. Next, cover the opening at the top with your balloon, keeping it as deflated as possible. This will regulate the air pressure inside with the air pressure outside, again so as to not give an artificially high temperature.
Turn on the heat lamp and let it heat up the inside of the bottle. Make sure the cardboard-side of the thermometer is facing the lamp. You will see the balloon inflate as the air inside heats up and expands. Let the temperature stabilize (I recommend half an hour). Record the temperature inside. (At this point, you may use the option of a second thermometer, kept outside the bottle nearby, to make sure the temperature of the room doesn't change significantly to alter your result.) Usually, I find that the temperature reads somewhere around 90 degreees when I reach this stage. It's all right if your own measurements at home are slightly different.
Now, turn off the lamp and let the bottle cool. We will now add a small amount of carbon dioxide gas to increase the percentage of CO2 inside the bottle. Now, it should be noted here that Mr. Coleman is right about CO2 being a trace gas. It's only about 0.038% of our atmosphere. We're going to increase it by only a little bit, by adding 0.005% to total 0.043% inside our soda bottle. You can confirm the math at home, but you can increase that amount of CO2 by adding exactly 0.1cc's, or 0.1ml of carbon dioxide. How do you do that?
Here's where you use your dry ice. Fill a sink with water. Then, put a small glass under the water and let it fill all the way. Keeping the glass completely under water, put the dry ice into the sink. Now, catch the bubbles inside the glass! Dry ice is pure CO2! So the gas inside the glass is the pure carbon dioxide you need. Take your syringe and suck in a little bit of CO2. Now, it's easy to get a syringe, but if you can't, just use a small eye-dropper. Just remember to completely fill up the eye-dropper with water first, and suck in one tiny bubble at the very tip. (That bubble should be roughly 0.1cc.) Now, squirt the CO2 into the bottle by rolling up one corner of the balloon. With the syringe, point down. With the eye-dropper, point up! (And spill no water, if you can help it.) Because pure CO2 is a little heavier than air, it will travel down into the bottle. Now the percentage of CO2 is just a tiny bit higher.
Make sure the balloon is secure over the top of the bottle again, and turn on the heat lamp. Make sure the distance between the heat lamp and the bottle is still the same. Now, let the temperature stabilize again, and record the temperature.
You will observe that the temperature will jump by roughly 5 to 6 degrees farenheit, or almost 3 degrees celcius!
If you don't think that's much, just think about the difference between a 45 degree day and a 50 degree day. Or a 55 degree day and a 60 degree day. It's a lot!
Oh, and by the way, the new concentration of CO2 we made, at 0.043%? We're projected to reach that level of CO2 sometime after the year 2020.

http://sacredcowwursthaus.blogspot....rself-global-warming.html?zx=fbced142f55ad5c9

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The propaganda department of the ABC are in overdrive on The Drum, a far left sideshow of that website, with some heavy guns aimed at those who question the alarmists religious convictions.

I would not legitimise their rants by a link.

It is like the Cold War. Is this CW2?

gg

 

[explod]

If you don't think that's much, just think about the difference between a 45 degree day and a 50 degree day. Or a 55 degree day and a 60 degree day. It's a lot!
Oh, and by the way, the new concentration of CO2 we made, at 0.043%? We're projected to reach that level of CO2 sometime after the year 2020.

http://sacredcowwursthaus.blogspot....rself-global-warming.html?zx=fbced142f55ad5c9

In the last few years down here in Victoria we have had about three days that have been apparently 100 year events, a lot of storms and floods have been like that too of late, anyway back to the temperatures. These particular days were between 45 and 48 degrees c, one was the day of the bushfires so that would have helped. Anyway most of the small possums were wiped out, saw the eveidence the next day along the paths of Balcombe Creek and a lot of old people carked it too. Not yet that old myself, furtunately though the power did go out so no airconditioner.

So why are we having these 100 year floods and heatwaves all close together much more often.

Oh I know, the blown out of proprtion percentage of sceptical scientists say its all happened before, before official records were kept or something like that.

 

[wayneL]

Now the previous experiment proved that carbon dioxide is a greenhous gas.

Oz wave guy , that does not mean it is posion, it is a necessary trace gas that we need. Any secondary student knows this who pays attention in science class, so can you frop this point as it is patronising. See if you can read this all the way through (like it the other way?)

This experiment shows the effect at trace levels.
Experiment #2: Carbon dioxide chamber.
Maybe you've heard someone like John Coleman -- former weatherman on 'Good Morning, America!' and the founder of The Weather Channel -- telling people that global warming is a scam because carbon dioxide is only a trace gas, and therefore can't have a large impact on our planetary weather. Here's a simple at-home experiment which proves him DEAD WRONG.

Though I am of the opinion that co2 levels can have a small impact on climate, I think the above experiment and implied conclusion re magnitude is disingenuous.

1/ Earth's climate is not a closed system like a coke bottle

2/ We have already had a rise in co2 something of the order as in the "experiment" (more in fact), yet where is the observed increase in temperature over and above the trend since the mini ice age?

The implication that a rise in co2 levels to 430ppm will cause a rise in Earth's temperature of 3 degrees C is frankly, ludicrous.