Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid dead!

[explod]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

I agree entirely, sick of hearing about cowardly thugs, hoons and the "poor me, I didn't know what I was doin cos I was on drugs yer honour" fraternity.

Bring back national service, give them a haircut, yank out any bling and kick the little ****s out of bed at 5 am every morning.
Do that for two years and you could halve the size of the required police force.

Bit young for national service. Some went in to serve at 15 in 1914 to go to France.

I work voluntarily to try and steer young people onto the right path. Could you let us in on what you are doing about these terrible young people.

 

[Arkad]

Some thoughtful responses to this post for sure. I wasn't at the scene and don't have all the facts, the same as all who have posted here.

I don't want to criticise the police involved. I'm not qualified to do that.

But overall, I can't get past one simple impression.

This always seems to happen in Victoria.

 

[Prospector]

When I was in the police force I was taught to shoot in an area which would kill. If you are in a situation where you use your gun, it is only a 'life and death' situation; which means that someone else's life is threatened - yours, or someone else. In which case you need to shoot at the largest area, which is the torso, ie the heart - the implication being that if you miss, then the offender will continue to threaten someone else's life.

In the current tragedy, the issue is therefore whether the Police were presented with a real threat to someone else's life.

It will live with the Police forever. It is not something they did lightly. They will grieve.

Shooting someone should never, ever, ever be done as a deterrent to others; quite simply, that would be murder.

 

[awg]

terrible shame for all concerned.

an old school acquaintance of mine was recently shot dead in very similar circs.

he was schizo, off his meds apparently, had a domestic argument.

I used to work with a former police weapons trainer.

they have VERY specific training.

2 shots, at the torso.

reason, impact of heavy calibre bullet prevents any forward motion of attacker, thereby preventing officers being stabbed.

simple. stopping power. death is an unfortunate by-product

they do not fire wounding shots at limbs, as the risk of hitting bystanders is too high.

it is very unfortunate that Taysers were not used/available?

i dont know the details of the story.

most police who fatally shoot a person are medically discharged, as they cannot cope with the psychological problems afterward.

many people with psychosis are entirely irrational, and it is not uncommon for severely disturbed to actually want to be shot...it is called "suicide by cop"

 

[Boggo]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

Could you let us in on what you are doing about these terrible young people.

I go to work and pay the taxes that keep their parents sitting in front of the Kevin07 new plasma tv's and I pay taxes to fund a police force that is required to protect me from their precious little offspring.

I do not do it voluntarily, I see many other areas where my taxes could be put to better use, hospital funding to support the elderly who have paid the same taxes all their lives is an example perhaps.

 

[Buddy]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

ok, i put myself in danger, my choice, but the employee stood no chance against this lady.

Good work M. But doesn't sound like a "lady" to me.

 

[Ageo]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

I seriously don't think coppers are allowed to shoot warning shots.

Otherwise they'd be shooting off their guns all the time.

I also doubt they would shoot up into the air as well.

What goes up must come down.

Saying that, a copper shooting his gun into the ground wouldn't have the same impact as shooting up.

Hmm you obviously have never fired warning shots before, if you fire at the ground it can increase the chances of the bullet deflecting (it will definately off a hard surface and close distance) When a shot is fired in the air by the time its starting to fall all the energy in the bullet is gone which means its like a small piece of lead falling on your head (if it were to hit your head which is highly unlikely).

Anyone that shoots on the ground as a warning shot should never be in control of a firearm.

No sam I havnt ....

Shooting legs and shoulders immobilise - Shooting chests kill - change the policy is all im suggesting..

hmmm you still dont get it do you? go and fire a pistol at a range for a week then times that by 100 times in difficulty and come back to me with the same question

too many movies and tv shows i say

 

[prawn_86]

Cops that shake should be issued with Shot guns not Glocks, thats dangerous.

Yep that would be fantastic. A shotgun would give no chance of survival from a short range.

I agree a firearm should only be used when everything all other options are exhausted.

Agreed and after capsicum spary, verbal warnings, and warning shots i think they had used all their current options

Shooting legs and shoulders immobilise - Shooting chests kill - change the policy is all im suggesting.

I actually cant tell if your serious NC or are just trolling.

Aim a pistol at a lunging/fast moving persons leg? Doesnt sound like a smart idea to me, too easy to miss when you have adrenalin running too.

Give them a shotgun so they can just blow the legs off and the kid can bleed to death...

 

[sam76]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

Hmm you obviously have never fired warning shots before,

Why no, I haven't I have, however had extensive use of a variety of firearms since the age of 10.

"if you fire at the ground it can increase the chances of the bullet deflecting (it will definately off a hard surface and close distance)"

My point is refering to this case. They were in a park. Chances of richochet are slim when the bullet is shot into dirt (and I'm not talking on an angle) Just like they say, never hunt in a river bed.


"When a shot is fired in the air by the time its starting to fall all the energy in the bullet is gone which means its like a small piece of lead falling on your head (if it were to hit your head which is highly unlikely)."

There are numerous cases of people being killed or injured from bullets coming down. In a built up area such as a city I would say the chances of being hit are quite high. Also Police need to retrieve such bullet for forensics.

"Anyone that shoots on the ground as a warning shot should never be in control of a firearm."

I agree. I would take it furthur by saying any police officer that shoots a warning shot should never be in control of a firearm.

 

[Agentm]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

Good work M. But doesn't sound like a "lady" to me.

i asked the chemist a few days later what the outcome was.. she was to spend at least 3 days in the pen. i guess the charges laid would have been heard by trial at a later date.

sam

the police did fire 2 warning shots at the ground, which stopped the kid for a fe moments, the police from what i hear were backing out but one member was in a position where he couldnt. hence the use of firearms at the body.

one good question thats not been answered, but will be at some stage, is why they did not secure the area first and then take control by use of dogs or SOG vehicle. and whether there was the possibilty of a CAT team intervention being used on this.

no one can blame the officers, they would act according to training, when you in this situation you have to act and react as best you can.

re the bullet killing you if fired in the sky, was tackled by myth busters recently.. straight up in the air cant kill you. the lower you bring the mussel down from vertical to horizontal the better the velocity and impact.

 

[sam76]

I haven't been keeping up with the story since early this morning.

two seconds on google.

http://www.local6.com/news/4084756/detail.html

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

re the bullet killing you if fired in the sky, was tackled by myth busters recently.. straight up in the air cant kill you. the lower you bring the mussel down from vertical to horizontal the better the velocity and impact.

Thats exactly right, basic physics really.

If something goes directly up (give or take a few degrees) it is eventually stopped (only for an instant) by gravity and begins to fall back to Earth and can only reach its maximum velocity, which in this case would not be sufficient enough for a small piece of metal to kill someone.

If however, it was fired at, say 60 degrees, then it would still have its velocity (diminishing slowly due to air resistance), plus the power gravity puts on it as it pulls it in an arc back down to Earth

 

[numbercruncher]

I notice a few of you justify the shooting of this teenager because you ASSumed he was a crack addict or whatever .....

There was no history of drug use or psychological problems with the boy but he had been involved in a minor assault that police knew about, he said.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=695956

 

[prawn_86]

I notice a few of you justify the shooting of this teenager because you ASSumed he was a crack addict or whatever .....

Well he wasnt the sharpest tool in the shed if he didnt stop after repeated warnings.

You have to admit that NC

 

[sam76]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

Thats exactly right, basic physics really.

If something goes directly up (give or take a few degrees) it is eventually stopped (only for an instant) by gravity and begins to fall back to Earth and can only reach its maximum velocity, which in this case would not be sufficient enough for a small piece of metal to kill someone.

If however, it was fired at, say 60 degrees, then it would still have its velocity (diminishing slowly due to air resistance), plus the power gravity puts on it as it pulls it in an arc back down to Earth

i refer you to my post above.

 

[GumbyLearner]

This is an unfortunate situation. I do not envy the danger that our police face in their working lives.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid Dead @!

i refer you to my post above.

The article doesnt mention the angle that the bullet was fired at, it just says "in the air".

Also the fact that the bullet hit the victims heart suggests that the bullet was not fired directly (within a few degrees) upwards, otherwise it would have entered through the head or shoulder, which wouldnt happen cause there wouldnt be enough velocity coming down...

The distance the bullet travelled also suggest it was shot at a lower than 90 degree angle, say 75 degrees, cause it travelled a fair distance before it hit anyone.

 

[sam76]

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/610059.html

 

[numbercruncher]

Well he wasnt the sharpest tool in the shed if he didnt stop after repeated warnings.

You have to admit that NC

It appears that way prawn , atleast unable to control his anger ? -

 

[GumbyLearner]

It appears that way prawn , atleast unable to control his anger ? -

This lady seems to think that drugs were involved. What a shame.

THE AGE
Woman describes horror of skate park tragedy
Reko Rennie
December 12, 2008 - 12:53PM
A woman has described her terror as she hid behind a tree while a knife-wielding teen - later shot dead by police - roared in fury.

Hariet Stewart, 29, of Northcote, had been shopping and was walking through a carpark adjacent to the scene when she saw the teenager armed with large knives.

"I turned around because he screamed a really big roar and then he was walking really kind of angrily with these two big knives," Ms Stewart said.

She hid behind a tree and heard police rushing to the scene.

"Police (came) rushing over and then I heard what was probably like seven or eight gun shots," she said.

Ms Stewart said she didn't know what had happened, but as soon as she heard the gunshots, she rushed home.

She said the teenager, who had a shaved head and was wearing skateboarding clothing, obviously wasn't an adult.

"From what I could tell, he looked like he was incredibly angry, or on ice or something because he was quite terrifying and he had enormous knives.

"Really big knives, I wondered whether they were sawn-off shotguns or something because he was holding them downwards and storming along with them."

Ms Stewart said there were a number of shoppers around at the time. It was dark and no-one knew what was happening.

She said that she thought it was "outrageous" that he was shot by police.

"I think a kid that's gotten out of control on drugs, the police should be able to handle the situation without murdering him.

"I mean he was terrifying, don't get me wrong, and I'm not easily scared, but he was just a kid. I think it's outrageous.

"I was pretty scared, I guess, and actually just alarmed that the police might be actually shooting someone."

She said that there appeared to have been enough police cars rushing to the scene and there appeared to be no justification for the boy's death.

Maybe if this kid wasnt loaded up on drugs this could have been prevented. I think more needs to be to tackle the drug problem.

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