Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel, I agree with parts of what you say. As you have fairly stated in the past everyone votes in relation to their own circumstances. I am a relatively young person, so the fact that JH is too appealed to me. She seems swithced on and doesn't appear to be a crook, as I find her very down to earth.

I have (touch wood my health stays well) time on my side, I can ride it out for 10, 20 years and believe if she does the right thing, I will get my money back with divs down the track to boot. I know that the situation looks crook now, but I am prepared to stick it out for the long haul, and not just take a large hit now and have no future earning potential with my invested funds.

That is why I remain hopeful, not because I think JH is the next messiah. I am under no illusions and am very much a realist. I am stupid for putting so many eggs in the one basket, I have learnt from this and so it is imperative I maintain a positive view, cos as I have said this will be a LONG journey, and have a lot of life (God willing) left, so I see this now as retirement money, and just get on with my life and work in my business to build it up again.

I really do feel sorry for the many unit holders who's situations are vastly different from my own, but that is why I voted for WC. There simply was no other alternative for me, I am not flippant and hang on every word JH says, I just think like, many other smart entrepeneurs here, and I have spoken personally to a few, that there was no other commercially viable alternative.

I just NEED to stay positive or else I will go nuts over the years if I maintain a pessimistic stance, but that is just me.

Your saying 10 to 20 years Mr Danger But I heard JH say to me & others at the meeting She will get my $1 back in 3 to 5 years Good to read your comming around to my way now Might be closer to 30 years thought A buck wont buy you much then though Have a drink Mr Danger it helps a bit ////

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I hope it is not that long, for the sake of the many investors I saw at the meetings, that unless a miracle youth elixir is invented, do not have the longevity to last even 10 years. I was just saying that even IF it takes 10-20, I may be able to absorb it.

I would love nothing more than ALL the unit holders get to enjoy their funds back, they deserve it. Just for the record I never believed WC could do it in 3-5 and told JH that myself, I will not state here what her response was, as people here will throw bricks at me here on this forum in light of what should have happened today. I will say that it was more 'realistic'.

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Back to $1 units in 3 to 5 years will probably see me out of the picture (yes I'm that old) so hopefully my daughter and grandchildren will benefit from my life's toil... Meanwhile, the occasional distribution would help me with buying the hamburgers...

My daughter has a weird sense of humour probably inherited from me. For my birthday tomorrow, she has bought me an Australian classic novel: "Bitter Bread" by Ronald McKie; a story set in Melbourne during the Great Depression! Here's a Depression song my father (a wharfie) used to sing:

Dole bread is bitter bread,
Bitter bread and sour,
Grief in the taste of it,
Weevils in the flour,
Weevils in the flour.

Now that I've cheered you all up, I'll say goodnight...
Rance

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If you're as old as you make out, I take my hat off to you as you are very tech savvy and thought you were a young dude! These days people live a hell of a lot longer than years ago, I wish you all the best and have a :drink: for me.

Happy birthday for tomorrow Rance. Many, many happy returns!

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Did anyone receive a snail-mail letter today from WC advising of the distribution delay? My postie is reliable and I didn't get a WC letter. If I hadn't been alerted by this thread, I might well have been blissfully spending the non-existent payment.

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Joe Blow

Great Doom is in fact correct the assets are listed at 395 million but only 335 after liabilities
so please take that into account

Look I do not have anything against investors who want to believe in the Jenny Hutson Fairy Godmother story. Actually I am quite touched by the extraordinary faith that some people that some investors that I thought were hard headed business people have i placed in her abilities .

Believe me I would like to be able to believe in a miracle worker myself, I would sleep a lot better at night it is indeed very difficult thing to face up to the grim reality what you have made a bad investment and lost money permanently

As the saying goes hope springs eternal in the human heart


However logic tell me to look at the hard facts

What exactly is JH claim to fame she made a bundle on S8 in a once in a lifetime in a raging bull market that may never be repeated

She runs a small boutique investment bank that by Lonsec investment measures would never have got past their guidelines for a potential fund manager.

The fact of the matter is JH had a special connection with certain people at OCV and was able to be in a unique position to gain control our fund by not allowing another manager to get a bid in edgewise

Now are dealing in a cyclical down turn in the property market and a global loss of confidence caused by Subprime if anybody thinks that JH can influence macro economic factors by any sort of advanced methodology or strategy they have been terribly ill-advised

Gone are the days of a property developer generating enormous profits over short timeframes . It is also an unfortunate fact that property cycles tend to be last a long time even decades

The theft of the 147 million from our Fund by OCV Directors and the subsequent forced pay out of the RBOS loan caused devastating losses to our Fund I am certainly not suggesting this was WC fault in any way shape or form.

Nonetheless lets look at what we have left after this disaster We have a fund with approx 700 million units and about 400 million in assets

To pay out the 6% promosed income per annum that JH promised and the many investors have pinned their hopes on we need to generate about 42 million in income about 10 % on 400 million

But is a fact that many assets in the fund such as the huge loan part of which is now converted into living and leisure shares are now generating negligible income .

Moreover 10% is probably a very conservative assessment of the available income potential of our remaining assets

Also the total asset base will be reduced at 2% per annum for her management fees before is dividend is even paid

I think WC new exactly what they were doing when they made the NSX statement that no dividends on the foreseeable future

They are all to well aware that paying out a Dividends yield consistently at 6% over the coming years will be well nigh impossible

In any event you cannot get growth whilst paying out all available income and selling off assets ad hoc to pay out dividends.

Their will inevitably have to be a Capital raising down the track either on the NSX or ASX and this will undoubtedly be at a large discount to the NTA and severely dilute the value of the fund for existing shareholders.

Unless you are very wealthy and can afford to invest in this Rights Issue ,but even those people with a lot of money invested would be taking on an enormous risk and would surely think twice about placing to much of their money in one investment

I have previously mentioned that I am still invested in a property trust that after two Capital Raising with Rights Issues is seven years later still a fraction of my original investment

You are absolutely correct about one thing Dangerous there is certainly going to be a lot of pain and suffering for investors in the months and years ahead. .

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Happy birthday for Saturday Rance, hope you have a great day!!!:birthday:Cheers,Seamisty

 

[marcom]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Happy Birthday Rance - hope you have a great day with the family.

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I hope it is not that long, for the sake of the many investors I saw at the meetings, that unless a miracle youth elixir is invented, do not have the longevity to last even 10 years. I was just saying that even IF it takes 10-20, I may be able to absorb it.

.

Dear Danger

With the stress you are exihibiting on this forum, I would suggest that the majority of the investors as mentioned above will long outlast you.

Discipline is a wonderfull thing which you have never obviously experianced, so please pay some respect to the elderly.

Regards


Splitpin

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

With all this talk about stress, I received this email today which is highly appropriate:-

New Wall Street Vocabulary


CEO - Chief Embezzlement Officer.
CFO - Corporate Fraud Officer.
BULL MARKET - A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius.
BEAR MARKET -- A 6 to 18 month period when the kids get no allowance, the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex.
VALUE INVESTING -- The art of buying low and selling lower.
P/E RATIO -- The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market keeps crashing.
BROKER -- What my broker has made me.
STANDARD & POOR -- Your life in a nutshell.
STOCK ANALYST -- Idiot who just downgraded your stock.
STOCK SPLIT -- When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally between themselves.
FINANCIAL PLANNER -- A guy whose phone has been disconnected.
MARKET CORRECTION -- The day after you buy stocks.
CASH FLOW-- The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet.
YAHOO -- What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share.
WINDOWS -- What you jump out of when you're the sucker who bought Yahoo @ $240 per share.
INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR -- Past year investor who's now locked up in a nuthouse.
PROFIT -- An archaic word no longer in use.

.................anybody else got any more??

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

With all this talk about stress, I received this email today which is highly appropriate:-

New Wall Street Vocabulary

.................anybody else got any more??

Dear John

Thank you for your humour.

Please add on the serious side of stress'

"Old age and treachery will beat youth and enthusiasm any time"

Regards

Splitpin

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Danger

With the stress you are exihibiting on this forum, I would suggest that the majority of the investors as mentioned above will long outlast you.

Discipline is a wonderfull thing which you have never obviously experianced, so please pay some respect to the elderly.

Regards


Splitpin

What stress exhibition
I have plenty of respect especially towards my seniors, I suggest you read closer as there is no suggestion I disrespected the elderly. Pfft you don't know me, so please keep your observations of me to yourself pal, as you are way off the mark ok.

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

...
Pessimists correct: 100% Optimists correct: 0% (that includes me.)

Don’t confuse being optimistic with being in denial. It’s possible to see the fund can’t afford to pay 13% returns while growing over 100% in 3 to 5 years without being a pessimist.

I consider the Action Group Reps to have been negligent in their posts and emails. They have continually told people they could expect to receive a 13% return on their investment while it doubled in size. This is very destructive to peoples lives when it doesn’t happen. And to top it off one of the reps tells us today he (and JH) didn’t even believed this info he and WC were using to get people to pass the resolutions!

There was also the constant personal attacks on people who told the truth by highlighting the misinformation coming from WC. Some AG Reps took offence at any proof that WC are incompetent and continually told us how experienced WC are!

I believe that if it wasn’t for the people who continued to highlight WC’s misinformation on this forum, with ASIC and the NSX that most would still be expecting to get the following:
• A min of 10,000 units on a buy back which will occur within the year (or by Xmas if you are on Seamisty’s list)
• Receive a 3 cent payment by Christmas
• Get a 1.5 cent quarterly payment (some would be thinking 3 cents based on the EM)
• Full return of capital in 3 to 5 years
It is possible that a lot of people are still expecting this as the only correction so far for non Internet users was the Corrective Notice which some received after the vote.

Perhaps the AG could focus on doing something useful such as getting WC to disclose info on the fund. And that doesn’t mean giving you info over the phone so you can report back to the forum, it means getting them to disclose useful information to the market by way of an NSX announcement (and investor mail out). The asset realisation in the Oct 28 Investor Update was misleading in that it didn’t show the book value of the assets and gave the impression there were minimal losses on assets realised between May 2 and Oct 24. We’ve also been given a table of 32 mortgage loans with their interest rate per annum but there is no mention how much interest and principal is in arrears. We also need to know how WC plan to fund existing projects.

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

So now if it weren't for the pro WC posters here on this forum, WC would not have got the resolutions of THOUSANDS that voted that wouldn't even know how to turn a computer on. OH PALEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

That'll do me LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

View attachment 25346
----
"Who told you that? What is his name? I want it."

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

A min of 10,000 units on a buy back which will occur within the year (or by Xmas if you are on Seamisty’s list)You will also recall Dora that I apologised for my mistake then, just to refresh your memory from my post on the 2nd of Sept:::
Sorry Dora, my mistake ,the buyback if voted will take place within 12 months of listing on the NSX, so before next Xmas!! Glad you are on to it.:::: Goes to show, none of us are perfect. Seamisty

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

So now if it weren't for the pro WC posters here on this forum, WC would not have got the resolutions of THOUSANDS that voted that wouldn't even know how to turn a computer on. OH PALEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

That'll do me LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Danger

Now please don't stress out about the old people who can't turn a computer on to watch the gospel.

An old time cure - a cup of tea with a bex powder and a good lie down.

Maybe when you wake up you may feel better, but I doubt it.

Regards


Splitpin

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Danger

Now please don't stress out about the old people who can't turn a computer on to watch the gospel.

An old time cure - a cup of tea with a bex powder and a good lie down.

Maybe when you wake up you may feel better, but I doubt it.

Regards


Splitpin

I just came home a little while ago from a 4km run, no stress here pal! You should try exercising, it really does unclutter the mind and helps you concentate more, so that you may better understand what you are reading.

The endorphins running through my body from the exercise..wow I feel GREAT!!! I have maybe had 3 cups of tea in my life and have never had a Bex, do they still sell that stuff??

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

WARNING!!!! This post is only for people with a sense of humour and in no way meant to offend the elderly, so please refrain from reading if you do not qualify!!!!I just realised why the loonies are out in force tonight Danger Danger, it's Halloween and instead of trick or treating, some prefer to use their walking sticks to give a beating!!!! Seamisty

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

WARNING!!!! This post is only for people with a sense of humour and in no way meant to offend the elderly, so please refrain from reading if you do not qualify!!!!I just realised why the loonies are out in force tonight Danger Danger, it's Halloween and instead of trick or treating, some prefer to use their walking sticks to give a beating!!!! Seamisty

YEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, better lock the doors and make sure the firewall is ROCK SOLID then. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!