Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[akernst]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I think it was wrong that WC gave the impression that they were going to Pay the October payment. Of course they will give the same excuse to not pay in December.

Once again, if people have your money, they will not give it back very easily.

WC are now already incompetent and WC said they would resign if that was the case.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

G'day All
Another day, so back to the fray!

Flatback, I'm not agreeing to disagree with you. I'm pointing out that your statement that the three representatives are (quote) supposedly going to be appointed to the WC board (unquote) is not factual. JH has not suggested they are going to be appointed to the WC board. But your statement could lead some people to believe that she did say that! That's how misinformation and rumours start.

On another matter (not directed at you Flatback), there has been a lot of postings backward and forward to the effect that JH had not informed the NSX that the 3 cent distribution this year has been shelved. But the fact is, she did inform the NSX on Tuesday Oct 28 in an official notification. The fact that NSX telephone enquiry officers were not aware of this is not her problem. The fact that WC telephone enquiry officers were not aware of it, IS her problem!

Let me make this clear: I am not defending nor opposing JH/WC (Yes, I'm sitting on the fence) although I believe she needs more time to settle matters particularly in the current financial crisis. But I do see red with postings that attribute to her matters that she has not said nor commited to. I'll give give her six months from Nov 1 and judge her by what she has said; what she has commited to; and by what she has achieved to heal our wounds.

Rance

Rance what about X div day there was never an X div day ever WC never was going to have a payment We would need to have X div day at least 2 to 3 weeks ago ///

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance what about X div day there was never an X div day ever WC never was going to have a payment We would need to have X div day at least 2 to 3 weeks ago ///

Great Doom
I agree with you (WOW, did I really say that?). Nevertheless, WC must have notified NSX, Compushare, and Perpetual of something because they have been quoting Oct 31 as X day for some time.

Rance

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

When i Spock to WC yesterday About the non payment we are getting I asked the lady about there was never an X div day The answer i received was Whats an X div day I then explained to her what it was I then when on to say you then have a record day after that she was un aware of that to i then said it could be about 3 weeks from X div day to payment day She then said Whats your point I could not believe what i was hearing from her in saying that I then said my point is WC must have known weeks ago about not paying a payment today I then asked to speak to someone else Said they will get back to me I wont hold my breath / Dane //

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I think it was wrong that WC gave the impression that they were going to Pay the October payment. Of course they will give the same excuse to not pay in December.

Once again, if people have your money, they will not give it back very easily.

WC are now already incompetent and WC said they would resign if that was the case.

You are entitled to your opinion Akernst, But mine is that WC would have proved to be more incompetant in releasing funds for distributions using money ear marked for progress payments on assetts that BELONG TO US. If money was not provided to complete these unfinished projects and they in turn had to be sold off to the highest bidder, I would consider our unit price to be further impaired. The fund also has a $9.5million debt at 20% interest that is due to be repaid.The money for the OCT distribution was in place well in advance by way of 3 property settlements. One of these fell over on the 24th OCt and WC thought it was still possible to meet the payment, then the other 2 fell over on the 27th due to no fault of WC, hence the emergency meeting being called by WC at 3.00 pm to make the decision not to pay us. Seamisty::YOR]. Not an advisor. All postings by Seamisty are purely the personal opinion of Seamisty and should not be relied on in making your own investment decisions.

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

... Nevertheless, WC must have notified NSX, Compushare, and Perpetual of something because they have been quoting Oct 31 as X day for some time.
Rance

Only ComputerShare have been quoting Oct 31 as payment day of 3 cents. Not the NSX. Telling ComputerShare is not binding but notifying the NSX of an Record Date would be. Wonder why WC would give ComputerShare a Record Date for a payment and not tell the NSX at the same time?
GD,
That is shocking that the WC person you spoke to didn't know about these important dates and that when explained she didn't see the significance. These people are management our money!

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Great Doom
I agree with you (WOW, did I really say that?). Nevertheless, WC must have notified NSX, Compushare, and Perpetual of something because they have been quoting Oct 31 as X day for some time. ////

Rance

Rance i believe they were quoting payment payment day on Oct 31 // Not x day //

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You are entitled to your opinion Akernst, But mine is that WC would have proved to be more incompetant in releasing funds for distributions using money ear marked for progress payments on assetts that BELONG TO US. If money was not provided to complete these unfinished projects and they in turn had to be sold off to the highest bidder, I would consider our unit price to be further impaired. The fund also has a $9.5million debt at 20% interest that is due to be repaid.The money for the OCT distribution was in place well in advance by way of 3 property settlements. One of these fell over on the 24th OCt and WC thought it was still possible to meet the payment, then the other 2 fell over on the 27th due to no fault of WC, hence the emergency meeting being called by WC at 3.00 pm to make the decision not to pay us. Seamisty::YOR]. Not an advisor. All postings by Seamisty are purely the personal opinion of Seamisty and should not be relied on in making your own investment decisions.

No one is saying WC should have made a payment the fund cannot afford. We are saying WC should have known well in advance that the fund could not make the payment and should have advised us as soon as they knew. Funding unfinished projects is a huge concern for this fund and it should come as no surprise to WC when more money is needed for such things.

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance i believe they were quoting payment payment day on Oct 31 // Not x day //

That's right. ComputerShare said the 17 Oct 2008 was the Record Date. They said they didn't know the x div date as they don't record that but they said I could get that date from my broker.

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance i believe they were quoting payment payment day on Oct 31 // Not x day //

Yes Great Doom, I understand. Whatever, it ain't going to happen... Rance

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You are entitled to your opinion Akernst, But mine is that WC would have proved to be more incompetant in releasing funds for distributions using money ear marked for progress payments on assetts that BELONG TO US. If money was not provided to complete these unfinished projects and they in turn had to be sold off to the highest bidder, I would consider our unit price to be further impaired. The fund also has a $9.5million debt at 20% interest that is due to be repaid.The money for the OCT distribution was in place well in advance by way of 3 property settlements. One of these fell over on the 24th OCt and WC thought it was still possible to meet the payment, then the other 2 fell over on the 27th due to no fault of WC, hence the emergency meeting being called by WC at 3.00 pm to make the decision not to pay us. Seamisty::YOR]. Not an advisor. All postings by Seamisty are purely the personal opinion of Seamisty and should not be relied on in making your own investment decisions.

Seamistey i will keep harping on x div day On Oct 15 when the votes were taken X div day would have to be in place t
hen to make a payment on Oct 31 Well what dose that make one think WC had no intention on making a payment on Oct 31 /////////

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

One of the problems with this long-running thread is that it is not moderated. This results in a daily free-for-all which includes material which a moderator would challenge or edit. Moderated blogs frequently have a topic for the day which keeps contributions on track.

Personally, I believe that WC could have taken on too much in deciding to manage the Fund. The idea that they are not doing their best to get things in order is to be overly critical of them. The economic climate is dreadful we have to admit, so I sincerely hope that WC can get us through these bleak days. WC will have to work twenty-five hours a day to get us a December payment, especially as the pressure on them from disappointed investors will increase greatly from now on. And they have the extra work facing them in preparing for two court cases. It sure calls for advanced crisis management knowledge.

Despite its shortcomings, this thread is often very helpful especially when the posts are supported by facts and secondary sources. The research done by some contributors is truly appreciated.

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

In my opinion, when JH did due diligence on acquiring the management rights of this fund, she would have been under no illusion that it would be tough. I do not however, envisage that she would have thought that she would have to work this hard in view of the global economic credit crisis plus the many other challenges that were hiding under the surface.

I do believe that she is not someone to quit or turn herself away from a challenge. She has a HUGE task ahead of her, even if she is over her head in this, I hope that she has the tenacity to overcome all the current adversity that is faced by us all.

 

[Sean K]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

One of the problems with this long-running thread is that it is not moderated.

Yes, it is. You don't see alot of the content that is moderated.

Sometimes we miss things as some of us are in different time zones, but generally, if we moderated anymore, there would be no thread.

kennas

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Well summarised Jadel. I'd like to add:

There's an additional approx $30M on top of the $147M that OCV Ltd are trying to worm their way out of with the current Offer to Creditors. This is all on top of the $50M support facility. There's even a contract in place for that $50M promise. What a con job. I'd just like to remind you all that the word 'con' is an abbreviation of none other than the word: confidence.

If stock markets return to their fundamentals, our 'shares' will be valued by the dividends. Rule of thumb is 10x. Right? If the annual 'distributions' are 1.5c then the units (shares) will trade at 15c. Maybe higher if there are imputation credits attached to the 'distributions'. I'm not sure about capital return.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel - On my layman's score-card, the pessimists who contribute here are absolutely ahead on points when it comes to having forecast PIF's present circumstances. I can hardly think of an optimistic prediction that has come true so far. JH's rousing battle cries are sounding hollow unless she can soon pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Pessimists correct: 100% Optimists correct: 0% (that includes me.)

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Just to add to that Jadal i think the asst of the fund is about 341Mill not 400 Mill which makes it worse The money WC may get in the court action are just maybe money Its verying up setting I will have to bring forward my Happy hour of drinks much Early today / Dane //

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel - On my layman's score-card, the pessimists who contribute here are absolutely ahead on points when it comes to having forecast PIF's present circumstances. I can hardly think of an optimistic prediction that has come true so far. JH's rousing battle cries are sounding hollow unless she can soon pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Pessimists correct: 100% Optimists correct: 0% (that includes me.)

QUOTE from JH I will not leave the battle field till i get the money I would her say i will not take a fee till i get your $1 back / Dane ////

 

[danger danger]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel, I agree with parts of what you say. As you have fairly stated in the past everyone votes in relation to their own circumstances. I am a relatively young person, so the fact that JH is too appealed to me. She seems swithced on and doesn't appear to be a crook, as I find her very down to earth.

I have (touch wood my health stays well) time on my side, I can ride it out for 10, 20 years and believe if she does the right thing, I will get my money back with divs down the track to boot. I know that the situation looks crook now, but I am prepared to stick it out for the long haul, and not just take a large hit now and have no future earning potential with my invested funds.

That is why I remain hopeful, not because I think JH is the next messiah. I am under no illusions and am very much a realist. I am stupid for putting so many eggs in the one basket, I have learnt from this and so it is imperative I maintain a positive view, cos as I have said this will be a LONG journey, and have a lot of life (God willing) left, so I see this now as retirement money, and just get on with my life and work in my business to build it up again.

I really do feel sorry for the many unit holders who's situations are vastly different from my own, but that is why I voted for WC. There simply was no other alternative for me, I am not flippant and hang on every word JH says, I just think like, many other smart entrepeneurs here, and I have spoken personally to a few, that there was no other commercially viable alternative.

I just NEED to stay positive or else I will go nuts over the years if I maintain a pessimistic stance, but that is just me.

 

[Joe Blow]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel has asked me to temporarily remove his most recent post while he reviewed its content for accuracy.