Why are we saying 'sorry' to the aboriginals?!

[2020hindsight]

My mate Rangi has just turned up we're going fishing, say's he's going over to Aus there's easy money to make out of gullible Aussies. Reading some of these posts he's right. porkpie

what's that joke about the garbo asking Rangi ...

"where's you been" "I's been in Australia"
"no where's you weely been"
"well ok, I's weely bin in jail, but I didn't want to tell anyone"

porkpie - suggest you look after NZ problems - and we'll look after ours.
And we have plenty of your kinsmen already lol. - helps keeps things friendly

 

[Scuba]

***edited for brevity***
porkpie - suggest you look after NZ problems - and we'll look after ours.

Agreed, thank Joe for the IGNORE button...

 

[treefrog]

interesting debate on "sorry" this morning ABC program
point made was:
1) 40yrs ago white-ees Intervened in apauling native living conditions of children and took them away from bad infulences
2) bi-partisan support today for another round of intervention because of apauling conditions (it IS happening now, including removing darkies from their parents at a rate significantly more than pro rata for whitie-ees
deja vue
how long before we will need to apologise again - this time for current intervention??
why not make sorry statement "in perpetuity"??

 

[Scuba]

Why not ask them what they want?

 

[Julia]

I saw an aboriginal family on Elizabeth Street in Melbourne a few days ago, and they were a very rare sight indeed. They do not form part of our mainstream communities and culture and why is this so? Why are they so isolated?

If they are not living in Melbourne, then that is their choice, isn't it?
No one tells anyone in this country where they may or may not live as far as I know.

 

[robandcoll]

Julia that is hafl the problem. Alot of mainstream Australians have not witnessed what the other half have to put up with. Spend sometime in WA or NT.

Any this scares me:

The National Aboriginal Alliance says the Federal Government should go further than this week's apology to Indigenous Australians and award compensation.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has ruled out financial compensation for members of the Stolen Generations, despite a recommendation in the 1997 'Bringing Them Home' report.

Alliance spokesman Les Malezer says Wednesday's formal apology is welcome, but not enough.

"We are also concerned that the apology is not being accompanied by reparations, which is part of forgiveness, as part of admitting that the wrong thing was done," he said.

"Once the apology has been issued, and providing the apology is not qualified, we will then go on to ask the Government to now consider how it will pay compensation."

Not another cent of my well earnt is going there.

I believe K07 has stuffed this one up real bad and could have masive implications for Australia. Half my family are now expats because of what they can earn overseas. If this economy dives because of Labours focus on social issues instead of economic issues I think the expac percentange will increase, and social unrest could go anywhere.

 

[Scuba]

***edited***
Half my family are now expats because of what they can earn overseas. If this economy dives because of Labours focus on social issues instead of economic issues I think the expac percentange will increase, and social unrest could go anywhere.

I suppose they all left since the coalition got ousted?
Take a good look at history and see which side of centre inherited the truly hard decisions in this country, WW1, Depression, WW2, 70's energy crisis... Go on, I dare you...
BTW If the Coalition was so good, why are ports and rail and infrastructure lagged so badly?

 

[2020hindsight]

1. Not another cent of my well earnt is going there.

2. I believe K07 has stuffed this one up real bad and could have masive implications for Australia.

3. Half my family are now expats because of what they can earn overseas. If this economy dives because of Labours focus on social issues instead of economic issues I think the expac percentange will increase, and social unrest could go anywhere.

rob (and/or coll)
1. not sure that's how it works - once the govt get their hands on it, it's not yours any more. (in any case the apology is being made under parliamentary privelege and apparently will avoid additional legal liability)

2. If he's "stuffed it up" he will face the public at the next election with a negative against him . Then again if he does something that is well and truly overdue and reconciliation and the Ab situation generally starts to improve then maybe he will do even better next election. Time will tell.

I doubt he will lose any votes from you yes? If he never had your vote in the first place that is?

3. I thought you were going to say " half overseas now, if ..... then the other half as well!" Not sure where you were going - either to which country, or with that argument. Sounds like you prefer the Ab situation to fester than to do anything about it.

 

[Happy]

From ABC, 11 Feb. 08

ABORIGINES HEAD TO CANBERRA CALLING FOR COMPENSATION

Hundreds of Aboriginal people are making their way to Canberra to hear the Prime Minister officially apologise to the Stolen Generations, as calls are made for compensation from the Federal Government.
The area around Canberra's Aboriginal Tent Embassy is being prepared for the influx of people who are expected to arrive from around Australia ahead of the apology.
The Tent Embassy's Isabelle Coe says she is pleased the site is still a focus for Aboriginal protest.
"We've had to fight to stay here because we've been fire bombed, we've been petrol bombed," she said.
"They wrapped up our old demountable in black plastic and drove it off to somewhere we don't know, but we have fought to stay here for the last 36 years."

COMPENSATION

Many of those expected to travel to Canberra will also take part in a rally from the Tent Embassy to the federal Parliament on Tuesday in support of calls for compensation to the Stolen Generations.
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has ruled out compensation but many Aboriginal leaders who have travelled from across the nation to be in Canberra for the event are still arguing for reparations.
Ms Coe says she thinks some form of compensation is inevitable.
"I don't think that this country can get out of paying it because a lot of Aboriginal people were affected by the Stolen Generations," she said.
"The mothers, the fathers, the grandparents, the aunties, the uncles, the cousins, and we had to run and hide when the welfare came to our mission."
Former Keating government minister Michael Lavarch, who established an inquiry into the Stolen Generations more than a decade ago, agrees money should be paid.
"Money can't overcome the problems that have been inflicted on so many families, on so many Australians," he said.
"But as part of an overall response I really think it should be something that the Government should look at."

'SORRY IS ENOUGH'

A member of the Stolen Generations who launched the first compensation case against the Commonwealth 12 years ago has welcomed the Commonwealth's plan to say sorry.
Lorna Cubillo and Peter Gunner failed to get compensation in 2000, because the High Court ruled it would not be a fair trial because of the time that had passed since their removal.
Ms Cubillo will be in the public gallery when the Commonwealth's apology is announced on Wednesday.
However, she says the Prime Minister's decision to rule out compensation for victims, does not bother her.
"Whatever happens, a sorry is okay for me because this is what I waited for and I knew it was going to happen one day and this is my moment," she said.
"People disagree, but that's okay. I'm not asking for anything more, just sorry is good enough."
Former Wimbledon champion Evonne Goolagong-Cawley says the apology to the Stolen Generations should help address the issue of Indigenous disadvantage.
Ms Goolagong-Cawley, a patron of Reconciliation Australia, will be at Parliament House to witness the apology.
She says it will be a mark of respect that should be followed by efforts to reduce the life-expectancy gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians.
"Once we all gain that respect together, then we can work together as a group, and work for the future," she said.
"In fact, I think the next step is attending to the gap of 17 years life expectancy between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people."

SPEECH WORDING

It is long-standing Labor Party policy to say sorry, and it will be the key word Mr Rudd utters on Wednesday.
But the rest of his speech is still being finalised, along with the plans on how many others will speak and whether an Indigenous Australian will respond.
Manager of Government Business Anthony Albanese says the wording of the apology will be revealed tomorrow.
"We'll be giving formal notice of the motion on Tuesday, so not just the Opposition, but everyone will get to see it in advance," he said.
The apology is set to overshadow the other key political event this week - the introduction of a bill to scrap WorkChoices.

Starts to look like possibly very expensive sorry soap opera.

Hope that part aboriginals will only be paid part sorry money, as other race stolen-rescued generation does not qualify for compensation, if they do qualify we will have another compensation saga, when currently rescued-stolen kids grow up and happen to bump into solicitor.

 

[--B--]

oh goody.

i eagerly await the word 'sorry' and millions in compensation sorting out all the problems in aboriginal communities and ending the rampant alcoholism and child sexual abuse that is so prevalent in aboriginal communities.

by saying 'sorry' and admitting to these horrific past wrongs im led to believe we will now be equal? does this mean we no longer pay the billions in grants and other special assistance given to aboriginal people??

 

[Happy]

APOLOGY SHOULD BE 'SEPARATE FROM COMPENSATION'

Reconciliation Australia says Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's apology to the Stolen Generations should stand alone from any compensation claims.
The organisation's board is meeting in Canberra today to discuss its agenda after the Government's formal apology is delivered on Wednesday.
Reconciliation Australia board director Fred Cheney says he wants governments to carefully consider all the recommendations in the 'Bringing Them Home Report', including compensation.
"That was an issue raised in the report 10 years ago. It's an issue being addressed at some levels of government, but the apology is a freestanding thing important in its own right," he said.
"I have no doubt that issue will go on being discussed and negotiated by state governments, as well as the Commonwealth Government over the coming years."
But co-chair on the Reconciliation Australia board of directors, Mark Leibler, says the 17-year life expectancy gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians is his top priority.
"It involves important steps in improving the life of Indigenous people; education, health and we're confident it'll be easier to address those issues in a meaningful way together with Indigenous communities once we have concluded this unfinished business on Wednesday," Mr Leibler said.
The Federal Government is also facing more criticism over its refusal to provide compensation as part of the apology.
Aboriginal activist Michael Mansell says sorry means little without reparations.
"I think the Prime Minister, if he's genuine about the apology, has got to set up a compensation package," he said.
That sentiment has the support of Greens Leader Bob Brown.
"It's not a case of what is politically good or bad, it's a case of what is the right thing," he said.
But on this issue, the major parties are in step, with Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson telling Fairfax Radio that compensation may cause resentment.
"These calls for compensation will seriously undermine the goodwill of good-hearted Australians that are prepared to go along with this apology," he said.
The wording of the apology will be released tomorrow and many people travelling to Canberra for the apology are also expected to take part in a rally, in support of several issues, including reparations.

Mark Leibler, says the 17-year life expectancy gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians is his top priority.

To close 17-year life expectancy gap should be top priority for people who experience the gap not the Government.
If I think there is something wrong with my diet and that my lifestyle can affect my longevity, I do not go to Government to give me with increased life expectancy on a plate.

If I want to be closer to better health facility, I do not ask to build that facility in my area.
Remote area farmers don't seem to make such outrageous demands.

If I want cleaner and not smashed house, I do not smash it in a first place and I also clean it and maintain on tegular basis.

I still remember pictures of smashed houses shown all over the world and appalling sanitary conditions ab had to live in.
Took me hours to explain who smashed houses and who blocked toilets and who ripped up flyscreens during my trip to Europe.

I am slowly getting sorry fatigue syndrome.

 

[rederob]

I am slowly getting sorry fatigue syndrome.

How odd!
If you were one of the stolen generation you would be counting the hours.

 

[Happy]

Suppose you are right, once unfinished sorry business is over, claim can be lodged for compensation and hours can be counted to payment.

Fatigue must have overwhelmed me, as not only I cannot take slice of that pie but also I’ll have to partially fund it.

 

[bunyip]

How odd!
If you were one of the stolen generation you would be counting the hours.

Maybe. But on the other hand, I daresay there are many among the stolen/rescued generation who are grateful for having an education and a job, a decent work ethic and decent living standard, instead of being uneducated and living among drunkenness, violence, squalor and poverty, which is quite likely how they would have ended up if they hadn't been rescued by people who considered them worthy of a better life.

 

[Prospector]

Maybe. But on the other hand, I daresay there are many among the stolen/rescued generation who are grateful for having an education and a job, a decent work ethic and decent living standard, instead of being uneducated and living among drunkenness, violence, squalor and poverty, which is quite likely how they would have ended up if they hadn't been rescued by people who considered them worthy of a better life.

But that is the crux of this whole issue - these children were not necessarily taken from abusive homes; they were taken only because they were aboriginal, nothing more.

Poverty is a relative term. What if a wealthy man took pity on you because your parents were obviously way, way poorer than he was. However, your parents were still adequately providing for you, and you were loved by them. Would you be grateful if he decided to 'save' you and took you away without your parents consent?

 

[ROE]

"When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Word cost nothing so why not say sorry and get it out of the way.
There maybe law suit and stuff but leave that to the court of law to determine.

 

[Tinpusher]

Same topic on an Aviation Professionals Forum...

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=313066

 

[Happy]

Intervention – Sorry Mark II in the making

Intervention – Sorry Mark II in the making

From ABC, 12 Feb. 08

THOUSANDS PROTEST TO 'STOP THE INTERVENTION'
By Penny McLintock


Thousands of people have marched across the lawns of Parliament House to protest against the Federal Government's intervention in Northern Territory Aboriginal communities.
Aboriginal people from across the country and non-Indigenous supporters gathered at the Aboriginal Tent Embassy near Old Parliament House to hear leaders speak against the intervention.
They called for the intervention to be overturned and an end to quarantining of welfare payments and compulsory land acquisitions.
Members of the crowd threw leaves onto the sacred fire, chanting "Stop the intervention - human rights for all".

Mark Lord from near Bourke in north-west New South Wales was one of the Aboriginal dancers leading the march, which began just after midday.
He says the intervention order is not the Australian way of doing things.
"It's a racial act really. We want to be like white people, walk in [to shops] and pay for things with our own cash not half with Centrelink payment and the rest in vouchers," he said.
"We human people, we are not animals.

"If they don't listen to us, they are going to hear us. They can not listen to us all they want, but they will hear us today."
A group of school students travelled from southern Sydney to take part in the rally.
Teacher Mark Goudkamp from Kingsgrove High School says the intervention repeats a lot of mistakes made in the past and the students wanted to speak out.
"It's punitive, it punishes people who are doing the right thing with welfare quarantining," he said.
"The other thing Rudd should do to break with the Howard legacy, is to wind back the intervention."
Kingsgrove student Ross Bougoukas says it is important young people are involved.
"Other young people will see us and hopefully follow our lead. We can give a fresh approach to this," he said.
Surrounded by media, the group marched around Old Parliament House and up Federation Mall. Some Aboriginal elders were taken in a bus
Australian Federal Police lined the the ring road around Parliament House keeping an eye on the procession as they walked to the top of the lawns.
A large Aboriginal flag was laid on the lawns and protesters gathered to hear key speakers condemn the intervention.
Greens Leader Bob Brown was among the speakers, labelling the intervention "racist legislation".

"It's a racial act really. We want to be like white people, walk in [to shops] and pay for things with our own cash not half with Centrelink payment and the rest in vouchers," he said.

No discrimination, pay cash or at least make vouchers redeemable in all shops

 

[robots]

oh goody.

i eagerly await the word 'sorry' and millions in compensation sorting out all the problems in aboriginal communities and ending the rampant alcoholism and child sexual abuse that is so prevalent in aboriginal communities.

by saying 'sorry' and admitting to these horrific past wrongs im led to believe we will now be equal? does this mean we no longer pay the billions in grants and other special assistance given to aboriginal people??

hello,

yes great point B,

thankyou

robots

 

[Buddy]

Another one joins the bandwagon (see link). This wagon must be pretty big or it's starting to get overloaded by now.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23200332-601,00.html

Anyway, I thought some form of indigineous history is already being taught in schools. Correct me if I am wrong here. Anyone here know how much...? So how much more is "more" here. It's probably a reasonable statement for an informed person (teacher/educator) to make but the Gee Gee is proabably just grabbing a headline here to make it appear as though he is an important person. "Sorry" for my cynacism.

I guess it would only be "modern history", as they have no written records. Of course there is the odd yarn (chinese wisper?) that has been passed down from generation to generation but how reliable are those. Hardly "history". Any other history would have to come from whitey archeologists, etc.

And by the way, dont you guys go putting words in my mouth (that I didnt say), like you did on my last post. That was just a :grenade: to see what would happen.

So here's another.....:grenade:
They called for the intervention to be overturned and an end to quarantining of welfare payments and compulsory land acquisitions.
Members of the crowd threw leaves onto the sacred fire, chanting "Stop the intervention - human rights for all".
I can feel another "sorry" comming on here, down the track a bit.......

And another...........:grenade:
Mark Lord from near Bourke in north-west New South Wales was one of the Aboriginal dancers leading the march, which began just after midday.
He says the intervention order is not the Australian way of doing things.
"It's a racial act really. We want to be like white people, walk in [to shops] and pay for things with our own cash not half with Centrelink payment and the rest in vouchers," he said.
"We human people, we are not animals.
No argument with the last sentence, at all.
So, is Mark's "own cash" just Centrelink payments without the vouchers, or is some sort of other "cash". What sort? Where does it come from?