And we are off - Aboriginal leaders say $1 billion 'not sorry enough'

[Buster]

Your talking present , I was referring to past.

As am I.. Do you honestly think they went out and randomly took kids from the community?? Read between the lines mate, and if you have to, apply some of the more recent (reported) events to the years past.. Sadly it all becomes so 'normal' that it rarely rates a mention.. But I can assure you it's been happening for a long, long time..

Regards,

Buster

 

[Buster]

Hey Chops,

Tasmania.

Errr.. Yeah?? I'm sure most of us here are fully aware of what occurred there.. Are you seriously 'comparing' that to almost any other reported event whilst maintaining 'one of the only places' and 'Large scale'..

Like I said.. Sheesh..

Buster

 

[stormbringer]

They won't conform I agree , I've seen the housing that looks like a warzone after they are finished with it . Mind you , there was a place in France where the toilet was ripped out by the previous tenant ( Islamic I think ) , never quite understood that one either to be honest . Different yes .......

But previous attempts to get them to move have been useless too , they are digging in , so to speak , right when we want to dig up the ground . They have priority in hiring for nearly every major mining project and are one of the best road blocks than any mining policy government has ever enacted .
The saying you can take the horse to water ........ is not lost on me here .

The unspeakables go back nearly 50 years , the backlog is astounding , but so too is the attrition rate of those that are needed to be spoken too . The answer was to dump it in someones lap in each state , the only real action that can get close to deterence though is a $$ presence $$ .

On a personal note , I believe the only cure for the victims and investigators that have to wade through all of it , is time .

Exactly as you phrased it , "get over it " , this is their only real positive course . There is a desperate need for people to look forward , but the horse saying comes back to haunt there. It's a tough one .

How do we get through to them at sufficient levels to make a positive change ?

That will be a Nobel prize winning answer .

Now the monetary compensation would have to fall under the liabilities act , and from my reading of it , it says " get over it " .

It still doesn't excuse the acts perpetrated , the scale is staggering and whats more shocking is that it is deeper than anyone expected . The spread almost systematic .

Forget the notions of my reactions to date you may have preconcluded on , the real amazement for me is that they now are pulling it all up from eons ago and its is a Government initiated program , after overly liberal allies from way back when . I could easily assume these targets have now lost all theirs friends , but that would call for an assumption , I do know solicitors and barristers will make a fortune .

A good post m8. Let's hope this story has a good ending for all concerned : )

 

[chops_a_must]

Hey Chops,



Errr.. Yeah?? I'm sure most of us here are fully aware of what occurred there.. Are you seriously 'comparing' that to almost any other reported event whilst maintaining 'one of the only places' and 'Large scale'..

Like I said.. Sheesh..

Buster

I think the debate proved not everyone is fully aware...

And yes, I think for the time, it was large scale. It is in the order of the magnitude of the Spanish Inquisition, in a much shorter time frame. Not as large, obviously, as the Spanish conquests, but you could argue that definitive ethnic lines still exist in most areas of conquer, as opposed to none really existing with the Tasmanians.

 

[2020hindsight]

I'm a first generation Australian , my family had nothing to do with what has gone on before they came here. However as an Australian I feel pride in deeds of past Australians like the diggers in past wars , Bradmans super human effort with the bat, Victor Changs mastery of the scapel etc etc. Equally I feel shame in the policy of past Governments that allowed race to be a factor in the removal of children from their families. I have no issue with the Government of Australia apologising on my behalf for these shameful policies and the damge they caused. If we need to give them 4 billion,then just reduce the tax cuts from 31 billion down to 27 billion. I would willing give up my tax cut to sort this.
We need to resolve this out once and for all , so we can all move on.
When you become an Australian you embrace this country as a whole, it history good and bad. The main point here being the vast majority of Australians choose to become Australians or their ancestors did. The Indigeous people were forced to become Australians , they still need help to live in the modern world , which was forced down their throats 200 years ago by the founding Fathers of our nation.
You can say this had nothing to do with me , but you would be wrong ,if your Australian it does have something to do with you and as Australians we have a responsibility to these people.

mark I'm pretty much in agreement with you ...
incidentally, my roots in Aus go back to the 1700's but irrelevant ..
the quantum of any payment ? - what the courts decide if applicable..
you could almost compare it to Bernie Banton and his fight for justice (imo)

PS I'm talking stolen generation btw (although the pollies apology will no doubt be broader than that)
I'm guessing the courts wouldn't be interested in prior injustices - although massive and many of em on record.

Here's Keating's Redfern address ... listen for the cheer when he mentions stolen generation.
Paul Keating - The Redfern Address - Australian Labor Party

 

[2020hindsight]

some background reading on the word sorry ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/08/2085733.htm

Sorry, no apology: Howard
Prime Minister John Howard has drawn a distinction between saying he is sorry about yesterday's interest rate rise and apologising for it.

Mr Howard and Treasurer Peter Costello have both said they are sorry for the financial problems it will cause... etc

http://www.abc.net.au/message/news/stories/ms_news_2118056.htm
'Sorry' more important than compo to Stolen Generations: elder

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s2116012.htm
Govt begins steps towards Stolen Generations' apology

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2111834.htm
The year of the wedge , Tom Calma
This one summaries some racism in Aus, culminating in the fiasco with Jackie Kelly and her gang.

So, as we look back, we see it was not a good year for our globally praised multiculturalism. As National Race Discrimination Commissioner however, I have hope.

There are other articles on ABC about Howard saying " he would have handled the Ab question differently (implying more humanely) if he had his time again" or words to that effect - but who knows what he meant / he would redefine it the day after he said it anyway.

 

[>Apocalypto<]

At the end of the day,

White Europeans have destroyed so many cultures around the world , no amount of money or sorry will EVER right the wrong we have done.....

 

[2020hindsight]

But we can try
and incidentally, "stolen generation" was happening as late as 1969 - Harold Holt (1908 - 1967) was already dead / abducted / living on a desert island with one of his mistresses for about 2 years etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generation

 

[Happy]

From ABC 20 Dec. 07
INDIGENOUS BOY'S ASSAULT PROMPTS pr0n CRACKDOWN CALL


A leader from the Northern Territory Indigenous community of Maningrida is calling on the Government to crack down on pornography use amid the shocking sexual assault of an 11-year-old boy.
Four of the five defendants have been sentenced to prison for sexually assaulting the boy.
The Supreme Court accepted when a teenager tried to have sex with the boy he was mimicking what he saw on a pornographic video.
Maningrida local Peter Dunaja says pornography has changed behaviour in the community in the last decade.
He says pornographic magazines started to come to the community in the mid-1990s.
"A lot of the kids are now ... are starting to drift away from their responsibility to the cultural values that we have," he said.
Mr Dunaja says politicians and bureaucrats need to visit the community to help address the pornography problem.
"There should be more tougher penalties, there should be more assistance," he said.
He says counsellors and sex education programs are needed in schools.
"These are the kind of things that are very hard for us, we need more counsellors, we need more bureaucrats to be able to make these decisions," he said.
"Not only that but in order for them to do that the golden rule is that they have to come and sit at a table to negotiate some of the things because each community has different priorities."
Mr Dunaja says the families of two men and three teenagers who pleaded guilty to child sex assault have reconciled with the victim's family.

I this bit

He says pornographic magazines started to come to the community in the mid-1990s.
"A lot of the kids are now ... are starting to drift away from their responsibility to the cultural values that we have," he said.

we can probably see one little positive, boys moved on.

 

[disarray]

At the end of the day,

White Europeans have destroyed so many cultures around the world , no amount of money or sorry will EVER right the wrong we have done.....

this is pathetic cultural self-flaggelation and i utterly reject this statement and your guilt ridden attitude.

oh those poor stone age cultures with life expectancies of 35 and institutionalised slavery, how terrible for the europeans to come along and introduce emancipation and democracy and social welfare and modern medicine and technology to these poor native peoples who lived fairytale existences communing with nature and living in peace with all the animals and tribes around them. its bullsh1t apologism and should be buried along with cultural relativism and political correctness.

human history is one of expansion, conquest and displacement, it is by no means limited to white europeans. ALL races, black, white and asian have at one time or another been responsible for atrocities against others as part and parcel of their own expansion. it like in america blacks jump up and down about how hard done by they were for slavery but no mention is made of the fact slavery still exists in africa, the middle east and some parts of asia, that black slaves were sold by black conquerers to arab muslim traders who shipped them across africa to the white customers, and just omit the fact that european civilisation is the first society EVER to abolish slavery and emancipate all the slaves. its all lefty bleeding heart bullsh1t and we don't have to say sorry for anything - in fact the world should be thanking western civilisation for little things like the renaissance, penicillin, air travel, the internet, vastly improved life expectancy and quality of life and multiculturalism (even though it screws the host culture).

the rest of you pussy apologists can bleed your heart all over the floor if it makes you feel better but it doesn't change the fact western civlisation is the best thing that has ever happened to humanity since we jumped out of the trees and started to eat meat. and before you counter with holocausts and world war anecdotes, they have led to the creation of the UN which is the first global meeting of leaders and facilitates the UNHCR and various other treaties and organisations who look after the most weak and vulnerable in the world. yeah those terrible terrible white people. you don't see declarations on human rights coming out of africa or china or saudi arabia do you?

 

[--B--]

this is pathetic cultural self-flaggelation and i utterly reject this statement and your guilt ridden attitude.

oh those poor stone age cultures with life expectancies of 35 and institutionalised slavery, how terrible for the europeans to come along and introduce emancipation and democracy and social welfare and modern medicine and technology to these poor native peoples who lived fairytale existences communing with nature and living in peace with all the animals and tribes around them. its bullsh1t apologism and should be buried along with cultural relativism and political correctness.

human history is one of expansion, conquest and displacement, it is by no means limited to white europeans. ALL races, black, white and asian have at one time or another been responsible for atrocities against others as part and parcel of their own expansion. it like in america blacks jump up and down about how hard done by they were for slavery but no mention is made of the fact slavery still exists in africa, the middle east and some parts of asia, that black slaves were sold by black conquerers to arab muslim traders who shipped them across africa to the white customers, and just omit the fact that european civilisation is the first society EVER to abolish slavery and emancipate all the slaves. its all lefty bleeding heart bullsh1t and we don't have to say sorry for anything - in fact the world should be thanking western civilisation for little things like the renaissance, penicillin, air travel, the internet, vastly improved life expectancy and quality of life and multiculturalism (even though it screws the host culture).

the rest of you pussy apologists can bleed your heart all over the floor if it makes you feel better but it doesn't change the fact western civlisation is the best thing that has ever happened to humanity since we jumped out of the trees and started to eat meat. and before you counter with holocausts and world war anecdotes, they have led to the creation of the UN which is the first global meeting of leaders and facilitates the UNHCR and various other treaties and organisations who look after the most weak and vulnerable in the world. yeah those terrible terrible white people.

100% agree.

 

[nioka]

100% agree.

Me too

 

[numbercruncher]

Me too

Me three

 

[gavank]

My ancestors were stolen from Ireland in 1829 and shipped out here as convicts.... I feel great emotional anguish and a feeling of displacement from the green fields of ireland .................which may impact on my ability to complete my PhD in Chemical engineering. OK lets settle the matter.... give me (University lecturer in Chemistry) and my son (Structural engineer) and daughter ( doctor), wife (university lecturer in education) $1 million each,(discount for christmas) , and I will forget about the pain and suffering.

Cheers and merry christmas --- Ho Ho Ho
from a "stolen one"

 

[Ageo]

My mum forgot to teach me how to make home made pizzas, do i get a million dollars now?

Its a load of ****

 

[IFocus]

this is pathetic cultural self-flaggelation and i utterly reject this statement and your guilt ridden attitude.

oh those poor stone age cultures with life expectancies of 35 and institutionalised slavery, how terrible for the europeans to come along and introduce emancipation and democracy and social welfare and modern medicine and technology to these poor native peoples who lived fairytale existences communing with nature and living in peace with all the animals and tribes around them. its bullsh1t apologism and should be buried along with cultural relativism and political correctness.

human history is one of expansion, conquest and displacement, it is by no means limited to white europeans. ALL races, black, white and asian have at one time or another been responsible for atrocities against others as part and parcel of their own expansion. it like in america blacks jump up and down about how hard done by they were for slavery but no mention is made of the fact slavery still exists in africa, the middle east and some parts of asia, that black slaves were sold by black conquerers to arab muslim traders who shipped them across africa to the white customers, and just omit the fact that european civilisation is the first society EVER to abolish slavery and emancipate all the slaves. its all lefty bleeding heart bullsh1t and we don't have to say sorry for anything - in fact the world should be thanking western civilisation for little things like the renaissance, penicillin, air travel, the internet, vastly improved life expectancy and quality of life and multiculturalism (even though it screws the host culture).

the rest of you pussy apologists can bleed your heart all over the floor if it makes you feel better but it doesn't change the fact western civlisation is the best thing that has ever happened to humanity since we jumped out of the trees and started to eat meat. and before you counter with holocausts and world war anecdotes, they have led to the creation of the UN which is the first global meeting of leaders and facilitates the UNHCR and various other treaties and organisations who look after the most weak and vulnerable in the world. yeah those terrible terrible white people. you don't see declarations on human rights coming out of africa or china or saudi arabia do you?

Hi disarray

OK see your point but what’s the answer to the current situation with aboriginals?

 

[Julia]

Leaving aside the question of compensation for a moment, I'd like to ask those who feel the Aborigines are in the dysfunctional state they are because of white people what remedy you feel would be appropriate?
Is the payment of multiple millions suddenly going to stop violence and sexual abuse?


Next question: it's clear that the sexual abuse of children is widespread in the communities. You are emphatically against the removal of children apparently, so are you in these circumstances condoning the leaving of these abused children (and those with the potential to be abused) with the offending communities rather than removing them (?stealing them) so they may be placed into white foster care?

These are my concerns. I don't care about the money one way or the other.
If it were to turn a dysfunctional people into human beings who genuinely wanted to uphold whatever valuable traditions may be left of their culture,
protect their women and children, and actually consider that making a contribution to our society in general might be more rewarding than living in the past, then I'm all for it.

 

[nioka]

what’s the answer to the current situation with aboriginals?

Get a few more Ernie Dingos, Noel Pearsons and tell them to fix it themselves by joining the rest of us in the 21st century.

 

[Rafa]

Me three

Me four...

Western society, (and Christian principles play a major role here) has done a few things wrong, but they have done a hell of a lot of things right...

And whilst there is room for improvement and acknowledgement of mistakes, there is nothing to apologise for. For those who have a blatant disdain for their own culture/religion of their ancestors, you really need to be be wary of what you wish for.... the alternatives ain't as pretty and idealistic as they are made out to be...

The simple life would have to be Australia in the 60's, 70's... now things are slightly less simple (thanks to peak oil), but no where near as difficult as the times when you were a slave to your ruler (and lets face it, most of us on this forum, ain't from any ruling class), had to fight fellow tribemens for food, etc, etc...

heck, we don't even have to capture and kill our animals, or know how to grow own crops, to eat... just need to go work, or surf the web and trade the asx.... how simple is that!!!

 

[coolcricket]

this is pathetic cultural self-flaggelation and i utterly reject this statement and your guilt ridden attitude.

oh those poor stone age cultures with life expectancies of 35 and institutionalised slavery, how terrible for the europeans to come along and introduce emancipation and democracy and social welfare and modern medicine and technology to these poor native peoples who lived fairytale existences communing with nature and living in peace with all the animals and tribes around them. its bullsh1t apologism and should be buried along with cultural relativism and political correctness.

human history is one of expansion, conquest and displacement, it is by no means limited to white europeans. ALL races, black, white and asian have at one time or another been responsible for atrocities against others as part and parcel of their own expansion. it like in america blacks jump up and down about how hard done by they were for slavery but no mention is made of the fact slavery still exists in africa, the middle east and some parts of asia, that black slaves were sold by black conquerers to arab muslim traders who shipped them across africa to the white customers, and just omit the fact that european civilisation is the first society EVER to abolish slavery and emancipate all the slaves. its all lefty bleeding heart bullsh1t and we don't have to say sorry for anything - in fact the world should be thanking western civilisation for little things like the renaissance, penicillin, air travel, the internet, vastly improved life expectancy and quality of life and multiculturalism (even though it screws the host culture).

the rest of you pussy apologists can bleed your heart all over the floor if it makes you feel better but it doesn't change the fact western civlisation is the best thing that has ever happened to humanity since we jumped out of the trees and started to eat meat. and before you counter with holocausts and world war anecdotes, they have led to the creation of the UN which is the first global meeting of leaders and facilitates the UNHCR and various other treaties and organisations who look after the most weak and vulnerable in the world. yeah those terrible terrible white people. you don't see declarations on human rights coming out of africa or china or saudi arabia do you?[/QUOTE


4th person to 100% agree.