And we are off - Aboriginal leaders say $1 billion 'not sorry enough'

[numbercruncher]

Thought Id google race and IQ and came up with this ...

His conclusions are that the East Asians (Chinese, Japanese and Koreans) have the highest mean IQ at 105. These are followed by the Europeans (IQ 100). Some way below these are the Inuit (Eskimos) (IQ 91), South East Asians (IQ 87), Native American Indians (IQ 87), Pacific Islanders (IQ 85), South Asians and North Africans (IQ 84). Well below these come the sub-Saharan Africans (IQ 67) followed by the Australian Aborigines (IQ 62). The least intelligent races are the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert together with the Pygmies of the Congo rain forests (IQ 54).

http://rlynn.co.uk/

 

[chops_a_must]

Well it seems you are hell bent on saying that the British early settlers were worse than the Nazi's.

Numbers are irrelevant when you are talking genocide. You can only kill how many are there.

 

[disarray]

Their situation is not unique, look at many of the indigenous races around the world and the problems invariably are the same.

Alcohol, sugar, drugs lost of culture, identity etc.

I make the note that none of the contributors to this thread have any idea or concept (including myself) as to what that all means or what it would be like if it was us.

adapt or die. i don't see why we keep trying to change that.

 

[chops_a_must]

Thought Id google race and IQ and came up with this ...




http://rlynn.co.uk/

Give each of those groups an IQ test based on visual cognition and the results are a whole lot different...

 

[justjohn]

Yeah, you're right. There is no comparison. The Germans failed at wiping out a race of people. Comparing our success and their failure, is just not on.

I suppose the jews were a more intelligent and motivated race of people to be wiped out completely agains far greater odds

 

[coolcricket]

Numbers are irrelevant when you are talking genocide. You can only kill how many are there.

You're unbelievable mate, oh well, I give up, It was not genocide, but if you want to believe that it was, go ahead, luxury of democracy and freedom of speech, which of course the British brought with them.

 

[chops_a_must]

You're unbelievable mate, oh well, I give up, It was not genocide, but if you want to believe that it was, go ahead, luxury of democracy and freedom of speech, which of course the British brought with them.

It is quite clear it was genocide. But this is the problem with nationalism, "my country right or wrong." Too much pride, ala the Japanese, to ever admit to extraordinary wrongdoings. There is never any advancement without self-critique.

 

[ithatheekret]

lol. now this is hilarious.

check your phone isnt tapped because you never know then "they" are listening!!!

MOOOOHAAHAAHAA

I'm on their side twit .

Today tonight , now that's scary .

 

[coolcricket]

It is quite clear it was genocide. But this is the problem with nationalism, "my country right or wrong." Too much pride, ala the Japanese, to ever admit to extraordinary wrongdoings. There is never any advancement without self-critique.

Most of them died via disease, alcoholism. Smallpox alone killed 50% of the Aboriginal population. That is not genocide, there was no intention to kill Aborigines. The Number of Aborigines shot by settlers is small when compared with disease. Genocide is the intentional murdering of people, ala Hitler and the Nazi's, not the British Settlers.

 

[chops_a_must]

Most of them died via disease, alcoholism. Smallpox alone killed 50% of the Aboriginal population. That is not genocide, there was no intention to kill Aborigines. The Number of Aborigines shot by settlers is small when compared with disease. Genocide is the intentional murdering of people, ala Hitler and the Nazi's, not the British Settlers.

According to one person.

It does not take into account their abandonment and disposal on Flinders Island. Nor does it take into account the policy of legal killing of Aboriginal Tasmanians, with the many hundreds of hunting expeditions out to get them. This wasn't isolated in Tasmania, but the worst of the consequences were.

 

[Happy]

His conclusions are that the East Asians (Chinese, Japanese and Koreans) have the highest mean IQ at 105. These are followed by the Europeans (IQ 100). Some way below these are the Inuit (Eskimos) (IQ 91), South East Asians (IQ 87), Native American Indians (IQ 87), Pacific Islanders (IQ 85), South Asians and North Africans (IQ 84). Well below these come the sub-Saharan Africans (IQ 67) followed by the Australian Aborigines (IQ 62). The least intelligent races are the Bushmen of the Kalahari desert together with the Pygmies of the Congo rain forests (IQ 54).

When you look at it from another angle, they were quite smart.
They thought up a scheme to get stolen, so they have multi digit payout and we fell for it.

I dread to think what would they come up with have they had 105 or more.

 

[stormbringer]

Okay then I'm an idiot , just watch who it is they start prosecuting , your talking about the habits of an indigineous woman , fine okay, so she dumped on the side of the road . I don't see your point here . And of course only aboriginals do this ............

There's a lot going on that the masses are not aware of . I only wish I could report it to you or the press could get the real news to print , but like me they are gagged !

Before you rant back , I can't because I am under the instruction of the crown to remain silent , in the form of a suppression order .

But of course you would have to understand the sickness , the depraved are infested with first and the follow through in habits that are quite often taken up by victims .

Ask yourself why that happens ?

To many the answer is that it is simpler to label it idiopathic and hope it goes away .

Now they're the idiots .............

Hmmm, sounds like the blame game again, my father assaulted me so now I have an excuse to do the same, pathetic m8. You should read up on the subject before your start down that road. BTW, it was an example on how they have no repect for the rest of society, it wasn't a single example, unfortunately I witnessed this on many occasions. It was not on the side of the road, on the footpath, in a township, population 25k+, is this acceptible in your book??? We have to pick up our dog **** for **** sake! You could really get me started by responding, I have mountains of examples of indig acting in such a way that would make the majority of australia, let alone the world, sick in the guts. I've got no problems with them living their lives the way they want to, as long as they stay in their communities. I don't need to see this, my kids don't need to see this, god forbid my mother ever get's to see this. Simply choice really, act in a way that is respectfull to the majority, and all will be good, otherwise don't even bother. They know what is right and wrong, and I'm talking about the laws of the land here, but while they carry that massive chip on their shoulder, they are allways going to justify their actions. Get over it, we've given you the tools, build yourselves a new life. I'd be the first to step up and give them a hand if they chose to better themselves, I just think it's a lost cause.
I have made several friends over the years that are indig, some that live with society, others on the boundries, so don't think I'm discussing this subject lightly m8, I do give a **** about the indig aussies, and maybe my first post was a little negative, funny how things you see change the way you think, but my point has allways been do they care enough about themselves to get of their arses and move on, whatever it takes, move on.

 

[coolcricket]

According to one person.

It does not take into account their abandonment and disposal on Flinders Island. Nor does it take into account the policy of legal killing of Aboriginal Tasmanians, with the many hundreds of hunting expeditions out to get them. This wasn't isolated in Tasmania, but the worst of the consequences were.

Actually, it is widely accepted that smallpox was responsible for killing the majority of aboriginals who died in your so called 'genocide'.



According to the Encarta Encyclopeadia-

Claims that smallpox killed over 50% of the Aboriginal population.

http://encarta.msn.com/media_701508643/Smallpox_Through_History.html



From an anti-colonialist website-

With the arrival of the Europeans, the Gadigal population was virtually wiped. In 1789 and 1790 a smallpox epidemic swept through the Aboriginal population around Sydney killing literally thousands of people. It is probable that anywhere between 50-90% of all the Aborigines in the vicinity of Sydney died from this epidemic within the first three years of the European settlement.


Sorry to ruin your british settler bashing, but it wasn't genocide.

 

[BBand]

If we get down to the micro level, we have all probably at some time been unfairly treated, judged etc. did our employers say sorry or give us a couple of dollars to keep us happy?

NO WAY !!

We just had to move on with our lives
Aboriginals should stop wingeing and do the same

They should also learn to say THANK YOU to the hard working Aussies who pay for their welfore benefits - but don't hold your breath

 

[ithatheekret]

Simply choice really, act in a way that is respectfull to the majority, and all will be good, otherwise don't even bother. They know what is right and wrong, and I'm talking about the laws of the land here, but while they carry that massive chip on their shoulder, they are allways going to justify their actions. Get over it, we've given you the tools, build yourselves a new life. I'd be the first to step up and give them a hand if they chose to better themselves, I just think it's a lost cause.
I have made several friends over the years that are indig, some that live with society, others on the boundries, so don't think I'm discussing this subject lightly m8, I do give a **** about the indig aussies, and maybe my first post was a little negative, funny how things you see change the way you think, but my point has allways been do they care enough about themselves to get of their arses and move on, whatever it takes, move on.

They won't conform I agree , I've seen the housing that looks like a warzone after they are finished with it . Mind you , there was a place in France where the toilet was ripped out by the previous tenant ( Islamic I think ) , never quite understood that one either to be honest . Different yes .......

But previous attempts to get them to move have been useless too , they are digging in , so to speak , right when we want to dig up the ground . They have priority in hiring for nearly every major mining project and are one of the best road blocks than any mining policy government has ever enacted .
The saying you can take the horse to water ........ is not lost on me here .

The unspeakables go back nearly 50 years , the backlog is astounding , but so too is the attrition rate of those that are needed to be spoken too . The answer was to dump it in someones lap in each state , the only real action that can get close to deterence though is a $$ presence $$ .

On a personal note , I believe the only cure for the victims and investigators that have to wade through all of it , is time .

Exactly as you phrased it , "get over it " , this is their only real positive course . There is a desperate need for people to look forward , but the horse saying comes back to haunt there. It's a tough one .

How do we get through to them at sufficient levels to make a positive change ?

That will be a Nobel prize winning answer .

Now the monetary compensation would have to fall under the liabilities act , and from my reading of it , it says " get over it " .

It still doesn't excuse the acts perpetrated , the scale is staggering and whats more shocking is that it is deeper than anyone expected . The spread almost systematic .

Forget the notions of my reactions to date you may have preconcluded on , the real amazement for me is that they now are pulling it all up from eons ago and its is a Government initiated program , after overly liberal allies from way back when . I could easily assume these targets have now lost all theirs friends , but that would call for an assumption , I do know solicitors and barristers will make a fortune .

 

[chops_a_must]

From an anti-colonialist website-

With the arrival of the Europeans, the Gadigal population was virtually wiped. In 1789 and 1790 a smallpox epidemic swept through the Aboriginal population around Sydney killing literally thousands of people. It is probable that anywhere between 50-90% of all the Aborigines in the vicinity of Sydney died from this epidemic within the first three years of the European settlement.


Sorry to ruin your british settler bashing, but it wasn't genocide.

Ummm... since when has Sydney been in Tasmania?

 

[coolcricket]

Ummm... since when has Sydney been in Tasmania?

That was from a Redfern Aboriginal related source, but honestly, Aboriginal immune systems in Sydney and Tasmania would not have been very different regarding smallpox. But thats okay, we have the Encarta encyclopeadia to back up the stat.

 

[mark70920]

I'm a first generation Australian , my family had nothing to do with what has gone on before they came here. However as an Australian I feel pride in deeds of past Australians like the diggers in past wars , Bradmans super human effort with the bat, Victor Changs mastery of the scapel etc etc. Equally I feel shame in the policy of past Governments that allowed race to be a factor in the removal of children from their families. I have no issue with the Government of Australia apologising on my behalf for these shameful policies and the damge they caused. If we need to give them 4 billion,then just reduce the tax cuts from 31 billion down to 27 billion. I would willing give up my tax cut to sort this.
We need to resolve this out once and for all , so we can all move on.
When you become an Australian you embrace this country as a whole, it history good and bad. The main point here being the vast majority of Australians choose to become Australians or their ancestors did. The Indigeous people were forced to become Australians , they still need help to live in the modern world , which was forced down their throats 200 years ago by the founding Fathers of our nation.
You can say this had nothing to do with me , but you would be wrong ,if your Australian it does have something to do with you and as Australians we have a responsibility to these people.

 

[chops_a_must]

That was from a Redfern Aboriginal related source, but honestly, Aboriginal immune systems in Sydney and Tasmania would not have been very different regarding smallpox. But thats okay, we have the Encarta encyclopeadia to back up the stat.

Undoubtedly disease caused a lot of deaths in aboriginals, which was common around Australia. But that still begs the question about the Tasmanians: What killed the rest?

Here is the UN definition of genocide:

"Article 2 of the CPPCG defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Almost right down to a tee what they did in Tasmania. And just about any definition of genocide covers what went on there.

It is easy to see why a lot of aboriginal groups argue that aboriginal genocide was widespread throughout Australia. I wouldn't personally argue that, but under some definitions, they would have quite a valid argument.

 

[coolcricket]

Alright mate, I think we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. Because we will just keep going back and forth. Both of us had some valid points though. Been nice debating.

Merry Christmas chops. :xmastree