And we are off - Aboriginal leaders say $1 billion 'not sorry enough'

[moneymajix]

What about, "sorry", we invaded your country?

What reparation do you get for that?

It would have to be more than a billion, wouldn't it?



Terra Nullius

In 1770 Captain James Cook landed in Botany Bay, home of the Eora people, and claimed possession of the East Coast of Australia for Britain under the doctrine of 'terra nullius'

According to the international law of Europe in the late 18th century, there were only three ways that Britain could take possession of another country:


1. If the country was uninhabited, Britain could claim and settle that country. In this case, it could claim ownership of the land.


2. If the country was already inhabited, Britain could ask for permission from the indigenous people to use some of their land. In this case, Britain could purchase land for its own use but it could not steal the land of the indigenous people.


3. If the country was inhabited, Britain could take over the country by invasion and conquest- in other words, defeat that country in war. However, even after winning a war, Britain would have to respect the rights of indigenous people.


Strangely Britain did not follow any of these rules in Australia. Since there were already people living in Australia, Britain could not take possession by "settling" this country. However from the time of Captain Cook's arrival the British Government acted as if Australia were uninhabited. So, instead of admitting that it was invading land that belonged to Aboriginal people, Britain acted as it were settling an empty land. This is what is meant by the myth of terra nullius.


Source

The myth of terra nullius NSW Board of Studies, 1995
Reproduced in the Sydney Morning Herald, 26 October 1996

 

[2020hindsight]

.. Former prime minister Malcolm Fraser said an apology needed to recognise that the policy of child removal based on race was "disastrously wrong and terrible".

He said compensation needed to be discussed, but thought the priority should be in redressing the "gross and irresponsible massive underspending on health, housing and education".

Mr Fraser also took aim at dissident historian Keith Windschuttle, who maintains the Stolen Generations are a "fiction".

The former Liberal leader said that Territory ordinances and documents dating back to 1911 gave "total confirmation that it was a designed and deliberate act of policy".

I'd agree with Fraser.

PS this article on ABC is a few days old ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/13/2118056.htm

'Sorry' more important than compo to Stolen Generations:elder Posted Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:00pm AEDT

NAIDOC's joint Male Elder of the Year says an acknowledgment of injustice committed by the Federal Government is far more important than a compensation package for the Stolen Generations.

Federal Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin has begun the formal process with Aboriginal groups about the form and timing of an apology from the Federal Government, but has ruled out including a compensation scheme.

The elder from Toowoomba in south-east Queensland, Jim Hagan, says some members of the Stolen Generations may seek compensation.

"The matter of compensation I think is a white man's worry - they're thinking of millions of dollars. I may be wrong, but I think that's not what the Aboriginal people are asking for," he said.

"They're asking for an apology, not just an apology as Howard was going to give them, but the word 'sorry'."

NAIDOC stands for National Aborigines and Islanders Day Observance Committee.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/12/2116257.htm

Compensation not part of saying sorry: Macklin Posted Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:33am AEDT
Updated Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:32am AEDT

Federal Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin says a compensation scheme for the Stolen Generations is not currently being considered as part of an official apology.

Ms Macklin yesterday began the formal process of consulting with Aboriginal groups about the form and timing of an apology from the Federal Government.

Ms Macklin says the Government believes practical steps to improve the health and education of Indigenous children would give more force to the apology than compensation.

"I don't think that's where people want to start this conversation, that's the message that I got yesterday," she said.

"People understand that in making the apology they want a recognition of what happened in the past.

"What we've seen from the states is different approaches on that issue, we haven't seen a rush of legal claims."

 

[coolcricket]

I'd agree with Fraser.

PS this article on ABC is a few days old ...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/13/2118056.htm


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/12/2116257.htm

While compensation may be secondary to the "Aboriginal elders", I bet that it is primary to the younger generations, the ones more akin to child and alcohol abuse.

 

[disarray]

yeah fine give them whatever they ask for and in return yank all the other aboriginal only welfare and policies. then 20 years down the track when they are still rotting away we'll get pangs of guilt and start paying for them again, but at least we won't have to go through this crap again and we can lecture them to our hearts content. p.s. i'm not sorry.

 

[DB008]

I hate to say it, but l'm with Stormbringer on this one

The english came, saw and conquered. They are a conquered race and lets not forget this. Furthermore, many of the "stolen generation" were handed over to the authorities because the new born's were halfcast, which is not acceptable, and would been murdered more than likely.
I spent 6 yrs in the territory, and saw alot of **** that you would not believe. They still behave like the rock apes that the english discovered here over 200 yrs ago, seriously, they have no idea on how too integtrate into a modern society, in fact, I'm pretty sure they don't want to. Just give them cash, and they're happy as pigs in ****, although the pigs are easier on the nose : )) They will only blow it anyway, buying cruiser's and pallet loads of VB. Give it 6 months, maybe a yr, and what they would have bought would be a total wreck. They don't give a **** about anything, let alone bettering themselves.
I'm not racist, I just don't like handouts going to those who aren't prepared to help themselves.

Unless you have seen it first hand, you have no idea what these people are like. You give them a house in the bush, they take everything outside and sleep under the stars anyways. The are different to us, good or bad we have to accept that.
I am not racist either. And I tolerate all kinds of race. BUT, giving them money is NOT going to solve anything. They will be back where they started 5 years from now.Compensation, well, the money will eventually flow back into the ecomony anyways.

The whole world was build on nations conquering it, been going on for thousands of years.

 

[hangseng]

And people are surprised by this why? It was a given with Labour getting in, now be prepared to pay. Kennas your posts have it in one.

They have pursued this for no other reason than compensation, despite the constant "no we are not".

This does the Aboriginal cause no advancement and will cause nothing but a national rift all over again.

Healing? Absolute rubbish!

And before the bleeding hearts get started one of my best friends (I went to school and played footy with him until our 20's) is a full blood Noongya, he agrees with me.

Damn this makes my blood boil.

 

[Buster]

Ha Haa

We are talking about children torn from the arms of their parents , do gooders did this .

So did the Nazis !

Torn from the arms of the 'kiddie fiddler' communities you mean.. Maybe you're not aware of what has been revealed recently in NT.. Perhaps the 10 year old raped by 9 in Qld might be closer to home? Do you really think that this hasn't been happening for many many years.. The Govt stepped in years ago and did what it thought (and what I still think) was the right thing and removed these kids for thier own protection.. and now we are supposed to apologise?? Get Real.

Unfortunately the Authorities of our time (now) are paralysed by the kerfuffle caused by the actions years ago (the so called 'stolen generation'), and are not removing the kids from the abusive environments that exist today. I certainly expect them to.. but they wont for fear of further 'stolen generations'..

I'll tip in 20 - 30 years we'll be asked for another apology, this time for not taking action, and leaving them in abusive situations (like the bullying compensation recently of 1 Mil).. of course you can't really mean it if you say sorry, you have to REALLY mean it and pay up..

Retch..

Buster

 

[Buster]

Choppa,

You do realise that Australia is one of the only places where genocide has been successfully completed on a large scale don't you? Comparison indeed...

Do a quick 'Google' of the word 'Genocide' mate.

I'm tipping you may find that your statement looks a little foolish in 'comparison'.. One of the only places??? Large scale?? Sheesh..

Regards,

Buster

 

[numbercruncher]

Boredom, drugs blamed for sexual assault
Boredom, overcrowded houses, drug use and pornography created the circumstances in which an 11-year-old boy was sexually assaulted by two adults and three juveniles at a remote Aboriginal community, a court heard.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/071218/2/15b00.html

Sure say sorry but omg spend the money "stealing" another generation for future generations sake plz. These communitys are just on an out of control spiral. How on earth could giving bored angry unemployed people money help ?

 

[ithatheekret]

Ha Haa



Torn from the arms of the 'kiddie fiddler' communities you mean.. Maybe you're not aware of what has been revealed recently in NT.. Perhaps the 10 year old raped by 9 in Qld might be closer to home? Do you really think that this hasn't been happening for many many years.. The Govt stepped in years ago and did what it thought (and what I still think) was the right thing and removed these kids for thier own protection.. and now we are supposed to apologise?? Get Real.

Unfortunately the Authorities of our time (now) are paralysed by the kerfuffle caused by the actions years ago (the so called 'stolen generation'), and are not removing the kids from the abusive environments that exist today. I certainly expect them to.. but they wont for fear of further 'stolen generations'..

I'll tip in 20 - 30 years we'll be asked for another apology, this time for not taking action, and leaving them in abusive situations (like the bullying compensation recently of 1 Mil).. of course you can't really mean it if you say sorry, you have to REALLY mean it and pay up..

Retch..

Buster

Your talking present , I was referring to past . And then ..... some do gooders would have been named recently in commissions such as the Mulligan enquiry if you want to get to the present .

But , where did the indigenous persons inclined to abuse young kiddies , pick up the habit ?
Where do the drugs and sniffing fuels , alcohol , etc., come from to push the isolated into such depravity ?

Who is it that sees such an advantage to do such things and how did they ever get so low on the human ladder ?

Out of sight out of mind and easy to abuse .

If the dead could talk , I'd be digging up a recently past MP and ringing it out of him .

It's those like him we should be tarring with the same brush .

The fact remains this subject is an embarrassment for any government , the truth is it is happening in the cities too , and they are not aboriginals , just homeless and easy targets . They are regarded as inert !

 

[chops_a_must]

Choppa,



Do a quick 'Google' of the word 'Genocide' mate.

I'm tipping you may find that your statement looks a little foolish in 'comparison'.. One of the only places??? Large scale?? Sheesh..

Regards,

Buster

Tasmania.

 

[coolcricket]

Tasmania.

The historical evidence relating to Tasmania can be arguged to incorrect, as Keith Windschuttle wrote in his book "The Fabrication of Aboriginal History".

 

[chops_a_must]

Keith Windschuttle

*snicker*

 

[coolcricket]

Regardless of whether it happened or not, sources that support the near extinction of Tasmanian Aboriginals, claim that the 5,000 Aboriginals in 1803, that were reduced to around 300 in 1833, died due to alcoholism and virulent diseases. It was therefore not a systematic, purposeful destruction of a people, aka, Genocide.

 

[surfingman]

For what? 10 years as opposed to 210?

10 years? I think you'll find Mabo v Queensland in 1992 was the turning point that opened the door for claims.

210 years? another great point there, what happened has happened a long time ago, whats done is done and money can't change history...

 

[AndrewM123]

I wonder if that 9 y.o, girl wishes she had been "stolen "

 

[2020hindsight]

1. And people are surprised by this why? It was a given with Labour getting in, now be prepared to pay. Kennas your posts have it in one.

2. They have pursued this for no other reason than compensation, despite the constant "no we are not".

3. This does the Aboriginal cause no advancement and will cause nothing but a national rift all over again.

4. Healing? Absolute rubbish!

5. And before the bleeding hearts get started one of my best friends (I went to school and played footy with him until our 20's) is a full blood Noongya, he agrees with me.

Damn this makes my blood boil.

you disappoint me hangseng

let's put it this way ..

suppose a court of law found they were entitled to compensation (stolen gen) - what would you say then ?

4. Healing? rubbish? whatever .
so much mean spirited stuff being posted here
- boil on.

 

[surfingman]

What about the 1000s or convicts that got sent to Port Arthur and were treating poorly and abused in slave labor leading to deaths? Can there relatives claim for millions of $ compo also, might make them feel better....

 

[DB008]

1)
Give them the money then. It will be back in the economy within a few months. Don't sweat. I remember going to Tanami Gold Project (TAM) a few years ago for the offical opening. I think something like $20 Million was given over to the indigenous people for using their land. $20 MILLION!!!!! What do you think that they have done with that money.......probably nothing. Seriously, $20 Million for a small community. That's like winning the lotto. And l have to be honest here, almost all of the indigenous people that attended couldn't speak English either! I was very suprised when alot of them turned up from nowhere in the latest Toyota Landcruiser (Retail for between $70k to 100k)...where do they get the money for that l wondered to myself????

2)
There was a doco on SBS a few months ago relating to the indigenous people Tasmania. The doco said that once this compensation stuff came along, al of a sudden, people were claming to be 1/10 Aboriginal. and the worst part was, there were no records to prove otherwise. So the average person living next door started to claim.

3) Don't compare them to the Nazis.....(please). That was a whole different level Chops.

 

[websman]

The Indians were in America, before Europeans invaded. My Great Grandmother was a Cherokee Indian. Should I get a large settlement as well?