Gold - Get Physical

[Garpal Gumnut]

It is time to buy Gold bar.

It is the traditional asset when political leadership fails and markets fall precipitously.

Give your ETF's to your dawg.

Miners may be another option but only those with secure operations, even then currency failures may affect them.

My advice is to get physical.

gg

 

[jbocker]

It is time to buy Gold bar.

It is the traditional asset when political leadership fails and markets fall precipitously.

Give your ETF's to your dawg.

Miners may be another option but only those with secure operations, even then currency failures may affect them.

My advice is to get physical.

gg

Never ever thought of purchasing gold before. I know the Mrs would jump at the chance of buying some gold chain necklaces and rings, but I strongly suspect that is marked up a lot a lot more that the actual gold content is worth. I don't think she will come at a gold bar hanging around her neck. Me thinks I better not try that option. AND what chance of flogging her rings and chains! Can you imagine it, "Err sorry dear remember those rings we bought for investment, we need to sell them". I am not sure at what point while uttering that sentence my head gets removed from my body.
Ok more seriously,..
I assume you buy bars at the mint, which is good for me as we have one in Perth. Are the other forms of gold an option, like gold coins or do they suffer a significant marked up price too, like jewellery. There is more interesting appeal to me as coinage or are there some other collectable forms of gold (not jewellery).
I could ask this on the net but fear for a lot of BS advertising, and would rather read from the great minds of the ASF.

 

[qldfrog]

You can buy bullions and coins of various weights even sovereigns, there is only a very small markup for coins as it is really gold per material, not so much coin collector market
Perth mint issues some nice cosmetic coins, Chinese new year etc..as gift for your lady..

 

[qldfrog]

https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/mobile/home.aspx
I used them in the past, their website can be interesting for you to see available coins price etc
But this is in Brisbane

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Never ever thought of purchasing gold before. I know the Mrs would jump at the chance of buying some gold chain necklaces and rings, but I strongly suspect that is marked up a lot a lot more that the actual gold content is worth. I don't think she will come at a gold bar hanging around her neck. Me thinks I better not try that option. AND what chance of flogging her rings and chains! Can you imagine it, "Err sorry dear remember those rings we bought for investment, we need to sell them". I am not sure at what point while uttering that sentence my head gets removed from my body.
Ok more seriously,..
I assume you buy bars at the mint, which is good for me as we have one in Perth. Are the other forms of gold an option, like gold coins or do they suffer a significant marked up price too, like jewellery. There is more interesting appeal to me as coinage or are there some other collectable forms of gold (not jewellery).
I could ask this on the net but fear for a lot of BS advertising, and would rather read from the great minds of the ASF.

https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/mobile/home.aspx
I used them in the past, their website can be interesting for you to see available coins price etc
But this is in Brisbane

https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/mobile/home.aspx
I used them in the past, their website can be interesting for you to see available coins price etc
But this is in Brisbane

Thanks jbocker,

Best stick with bar for investment. 5oz minimum. Love cools, easier to remove the bars from the undies drawer, dog food container or bullion repository than a partner's neck. Coins good if you enjoy collecting.

Thanks frog,

I buy from Perth Mint and have never used Ainsliebullion. I'll look in to it.

gg

 

[explod]

Great intuition there GG, Aussie gold back at an all time high overnight.

Last week out of the blue a close friend stunned me, as he was always the opposite to my enthusiasm, by saying "I am selling my share portfolio and buying gold" in answer to his question told him the Perth Mint. He's set a higher price than I would but his CBA went for $84.

Yes, cloudy days.

 

[finicky]

A few things off the top of my head about buying gold and gold related investments for novices.

The conventional advice is to start off with bullion. I'm ambivalent about that because it's not as straightforward as they make out. You buy some physical and what are you going to do with it? I became quite paranoid about mine and got to eventually burying it in the yard. I used to drink a bit in that period and I deliberately buried it in the strangest spots I could think of. Multiple spots. Then, because I was paranoid I didn't keep a map of where I put it. The upshot was? When I came to dig it up to sell it I was never quite sure that I got all the spots. To this day I suspect one of the stashes is buried at a house I no longer live in. Then, before you sell it you have to transport it. Circumstances at the time meant I had to use a courier to get it to my dealer. The courier knew what it was because of the weight - he actually said it, so then I s**t myself over that, wondering if he was honest, because he didn't particularly look it..

Paranoia - you're living with an elderly family member and you imagine someone getting wind of your stash and torturing the oldie in front of your eyes before you cough up the location. Not so weird, because three members of the silver stackers forum were robbed of their physical in suspiciously targeted burglaries. Gold bugs tend to have paranoia as a preceding condition anyway.

Coins, collectables and numismatics. I found these to be losers when I came to sell. Unless you're willing and able to chase knowledgeable private buyers you will not get back the premium you paid for them. Big hassle shifting your stuff that way. Getting a premium for a collectable coin from a dealer - forget it. My Melbourne dealer, whom I consider ethical, cannot offer more than spot price, if that. So unless you have a fetish for collectables go for the rawest brute bullion bars or coins.

But I would not even do that if I bought today - which I wouldn't. If buying physical today I would go for allocated pooled metal. You never see it. Because its pooled, fees are minimal. Obviously you have no home security issues. When you come to sell, its modern - do it in the internet or with a phone call and the money appears in your account. To view one example, my dealer was:
https://www.goldstackers.com.au/bullion/types/pool-allocated/

I'd also consider buying through an etf on the stock exchange (code::GOLD) but not so sure about that, never done it.

Best for me by a long shot has been gold miners - you're a part owner of gold in the ground. The first stage in which I did this was early 2000's and I focused on explorers, developers and small 'growing' miners for maximum 'leverage'. I primitively understood that there was a fair bit of risk, so I read what I could about the individual companies and used a scattergun strategy - small amounts into maybe 20 companies. They took me for everthing I had - one by one they all went down, either into administration or hyperinflation of the shares. I couldn't believe all these smiling respectable looking directors were deceiiving self-serving white collar phoneys. These guys were just scoundrels dressing up hyper risky bogus enterprises as investments for the gullible while they pulled six figure salaries, free options and got to call themselves managing directors instead of mediocre geologists, prospectors or accountants which is what they rightfully were.

My second foray into mining shares went much better. Got off to a late start because, while I was watching some gold miners make money in 2014, I put it down mostly to a low Australian dollar. Also there was bitterness cynicism and fear to overcome. Anyway I gradually built positions in established gold miners with fairly well demonstrated records of profitable years. My one deviation from this cautious approach proved the rule - I put 30 grand into Dacian Gold (DCN) before it fully ramped up production - boom, cratered, turns out the m.d (recently replaced) was, shall we say, 'imaginative'.
But the others have gone quite well and I continue to view them as investments in gold that pay conventional dividends.

 

[Bill M]

For assurity of your product I would only buy from Perth Mint Bullion or an authorised distributor.

Some have already been listed on this thread but here is the full list: https://www.perthmint.com/perth-mint-coin-distributors-australia.aspx

I would only buy 9999 gold as well and I would go for gold coins rather than the bars which come in "The Perth Mint Tamper-Evident Case." Usually the coins sell for about $20 more than the bars so you are not paying that much more considering you are looking at $2300 or more per troy ounce.

Buy as close to spot as you can. All brand new 1 oz coins and bars are $50 to $70 above spot. You won't get better than that unless you find yourself buying on the secondary market. But with that comes risk of fakes too so I would stick with the ones listed above.

When it comes to selling you will most likely get 10% less than spot for anything at a bullion shop or coin dealer, be it a bar or coin. That is unless you fluked a collectable bullion coin and that does happen sometimes. There is one Bullion Shop in Melbourne offering spot for all bullion gold and silver (with quantity limitations) but apart from that I don't know of any others that do.

If spot keeps on going up you don't need to do anything but buy and hold and cash in when you are ready. But if the POG goes south you could well be waiting a long time to get your money back. Good Luck!

 

[qldfrog]

For assurity of your product I would only buy from Perth Mint Bullion or an authorised distributor.

Some have already been listed on this thread but here is the full list: https://www.perthmint.com/perth-mint-coin-distributors-australia.aspx

I would only buy 9999 gold as well and I would go for gold coins rather than the bars which come in "The Perth Mint Tamper-Evident Case." Usually the coins sell for about $20 more than the bars so you are not paying that much more considering you are looking at $2300 or more per troy ounce.

Buy as close to spot as you can. All brand new 1 oz coins and bars are $50 to $70 above spot. You won't get better than that unless you find yourself buying on the secondary market. But with that comes risk of fakes too so I would stick with the ones listed above.

When it comes to selling you will most likely get 10% less than spot for anything at a bullion shop or coin dealer, be it a bar or coin. That is unless you fluked a collectable bullion coin and that does happen sometimes. There is one Bullion Shop in Melbourne offering spot for all bullion gold and silver (with quantity limitations) but apart from that I don't know of any others that do.

If spot keeps on going up you don't need to do anything but buy and hold and cash in when you are ready. But if the POG goes south you could well be waiting a long time to get your money back. Good Luck!

About GOLD etf, i do favor the pmgold one as there is supposed to be a one for one gold to paper match and offered by perth mint..a relatively trusted institution
GOLD and other etf are well known as having only a tenth at most of the paper gold they sell, they are basically fiat currency..

 

[Bill M]

About GOLD etf, i do favor the pmgold one as there is supposed to be a one for one gold to paper match and offered by perth mint..a relatively trusted institution
GOLD and other etf are well known as having only a tenth at most of the paper gold they sell, they are basically fiat currency..

I haven't gone there yet but I heard the Perth Mint one is very good. As for the GOLD ETF it's been around for a long time. It's definitely a way buy and hold gold to avoid direct storage fees (yes the ETF has fees too) but there are a lot of people out there that are sceptical and always say "if you don't hold it you don't own it".

 

[qldfrog]

Note you can hire a safe in a vault for a few hundreds a year in many places
So no need to dig the yard, and no risk to have your family tortured as it is quite a work to access it

 

[qldfrog]

I haven't gone there yet but I heard the Perth Mint one is very good. As for the GOLD ETF it's been around for a long time. It's definitely a way buy and hold gold to avoid direct storage fees (yes the ETF has fees too) but there are a lot of people out there that are sceptical and always say "if you don't hold it you don't own it".

I own PMGOLD and in my view it is as good as it gets but indeed if you do not hold it ..
This is the way i do get in and out of gold for short medium term
Hope it helps

 

[jbocker]

Thank You @finicky @Bill M @qldfrog wow some fabulous insights and experience. I did look up the Perth Mint site, very interesting. I am a philatelist and collecting sits well with me, but stamp collecting as an investment is very risky. I am currently collecting a set from every country that released a stamp in the year of my birth. (I should start a separate thread for stamp investments and keep this one for GOLD) Thanks @Garpal Gumnut loving this discussion.

 

[qldfrog]

Thank You @finicky @Bill M @qldfrog wow some fabulous insights and experience. I did look up the Perth Mint site, very interesting. I am a philatelist and collecting sits well with me, but stamp collecting as an investment is very risky. I am currently collecting a set from every country that released a stamp in the year of my birth. (I should start a separate thread for stamp investments and keep this one for GOLD) Thanks @Garpal Gumnut loving this discussion.

PM me with your year of birth, I might have the french one if still missing or if you have a list

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Thanks everyone for their input, all views are valid given particular situations. I infer by this to one's stake, state of mind, the market for spot gold, tolerance for risk, the state of the share market as well as the mundane but nonetheless important matters such as one's memory and access to a shovel.

I believe that instruments such as Gold ETF's will become illiquid in a proper market crash. A crash is characterised by desperate fearful sellers, hopeful holders and anticipatory buyers. ETF's will behave differently depending their underlying, however they may become equally illiquid depending on the currency value holdings, puts and other hedging strategies they employ.

Gold ETF's are not immune to being run by muppets.

When all goes to crap having Gold bar in one's hands, arms, garden, granny's grave etc. beats all other holdings. This has been a valid strategy for millenia.

My second choice would be large Gold stocks with good reserves.

gg

 

[fergee]

@Dona Ferentes posted this on the Palladium thread a day or so ago and I would recommend any one who is interested in buying PM ETFs and futures to have a read of it whilst considering how to invest in PMs.

Sprott blog:
https://www.sprottmoney.com/Blog/the-magic-palladium-bullet-in-2020.html

 

[aus_trader]

Always a great discussion on the subject GG. I have also thought of storing some physical Gold for months and months and discussed extensively with ASF members to get ideas. Finally decided to buy some Gold ETF's and related ETF's instead as I don't have the nerve to hold onto it, paranoid would be more like the correct description as finicky described in in-depth details earlier. That thread that I started, for those interested can be found here:

Storing Physical Gold - Coins etc.

The only other way I would consider is to buy directly from Perth Mint (PM) and store it at their vaults but that does attract storage fees, so if the investment takes a long time to pay off that could be a negative to pay years of vault storage fees. If I had a crystal ball that could predict when Gold begins it's next bull market then I think I'll go with them despite the cost of storage as PM has been around a very long time and backed by Govt of WA, predominantly the Gold producing state.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

For those about to buy physical Gold bar, timing as with stocks is important.

Fundamentals may be misleading as it remains a market, with all a market's foibles and traps.

Remember that gold bar is a long term investment for the average person, and do not be caught out by the madness of crowds.

I say this because the less one pays, the more bar one can buy.

On the other hand if a sniffle turns in to a pandemic then now may be a suitable time.

Observe the charts as always.

gg

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Am I missing anything here, about the ETF issued by Perth Mint PMGOLD (which I own). Especially point 2 about being Physically Redeemable:

ASX: PMGOLD

Perth Mint Gold (ASX CODE: PMGOLD) is a right to gold created by The Perth Mint, which gives investors the ability to purchase Government-backed gold via the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX).

PMGOLD suits investors who prefer to manage their gold investment within their stockbroking account along with their ASX-listed equities and other holdings.

About Perth Mint Gold
The ASX price of PMGOLD is intended to track the international spot price of gold in Australian dollars. PMGOLD has a number of features that make it attractive to investors, including:

• Government guaranteed. PMGOLD is issued by Gold Corporation (trading as The Perth Mint), a statutory authority of the Government of Western Australia. The liabilities of Gold Corporation, including its obligations to PMGOLD investors, are guaranteed under section 22 of the Gold Corporation Act 1987, an Act of the Western Australian Parliament.
• Physically redeemable. Unlike many gold exchange traded products, PMGOLD can be physically redeemed for any of The Perth Mint’s bullion coins and bars.
• Fully backed. Holdings secured on behalf of investors in PMGOLD are fully underpinned by government-backed gold, which is safeguarded in The Perth Mint’s central bank grade vaults.
• Low management fee. PMGOLD’s management fee is just 0.15%, one of the lowest fees worldwide for a gold exchange traded product.
• Highly liquid. The Perth Mint, via its market making agents, ensures PMGOLD tracks the international spot price of gold by maintaining bid and offer prices and volume on the ASX at all times, in accordance with ASX rules.
• Convenient. PMGOLD can be purchased and sold through your stockbroker or share trading account with the same ease and convenience as investing in shares.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Am I missing anything here, about the ETF issued by Perth Mint PMGOLD (which I own). Especially point 2 about being Physically Redeemable:

ASX: PMGOLD

Perth Mint Gold (ASX CODE: PMGOLD) is a right to gold created by The Perth Mint, which gives investors the ability to purchase Government-backed gold via the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX).

PMGOLD suits investors who prefer to manage their gold investment within their stockbroking account along with their ASX-listed equities and other holdings.

About Perth Mint Gold
The ASX price of PMGOLD is intended to track the international spot price of gold in Australian dollars. PMGOLD has a number of features that make it attractive to investors, including:

• Government guaranteed. PMGOLD is issued by Gold Corporation (trading as The Perth Mint), a statutory authority of the Government of Western Australia. The liabilities of Gold Corporation, including its obligations to PMGOLD investors, are guaranteed under section 22 of the Gold Corporation Act 1987, an Act of the Western Australian Parliament.
• Physically redeemable. Unlike many gold exchange traded products, PMGOLD can be physically redeemed for any of The Perth Mint’s bullion coins and bars.
• Fully backed. Holdings secured on behalf of investors in PMGOLD are fully underpinned by government-backed gold, which is safeguarded in The Perth Mint’s central bank grade vaults.
• Low management fee. PMGOLD’s management fee is just 0.15%, one of the lowest fees worldwide for a gold exchange traded product.
• Highly liquid. The Perth Mint, via its market making agents, ensures PMGOLD tracks the international spot price of gold by maintaining bid and offer prices and volume on the ASX at all times, in accordance with ASX rules.
• Convenient. PMGOLD can be purchased and sold through your stockbroker or share trading account with the same ease and convenience as investing in shares.

You are missing something.

When you buy Gold bar from Perth Mint you can take physical possession of it, i.e. hold it in your mitts.

An ETF although usually redeemable/trade-able is an ephemeral object.

gg