Gold - Get Physical

[Dona Ferentes]

So this handshake isn't worth the paper it's written on?

 

[aus_trader]

So this handshake isn't worth the paper it's written on?

I think it should be honorable, given it's WA Government backed.

I would be cautious of other Bullion dealers in case they disappear with your Cash/Gold. But Perth Mint is known world-wide and I think we'll have some Armageddon level catastrophes down under if that was to disappear as well.

 

[qldfrog]

I think pmgold is as good as it gets for paper gold, I mentionned it much earlier in the thread: disclaimer, I hold substantial amount, more this week....

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I think pmgold is as good as it gets for paper gold, I mentionned it much earlier in the thread: disclaimer, I hold substantial amount, more this week....

Thanks @qldfrog

Many commenters probably weren't even born when Pyramid and other banks/societies went bust in Victoria in 1990 leading to eventual bail outs.

Many funds are run by young boys or girls just out of Uni with connections or antiquated ex-AMP insurance salesmen.

How do they manage risk?
Look at the fine print in the ETF's for exclusions from a bust.
How do they manage forward sales, calls, puts. ?
Are they competent?
Are they taking risks hidden from the finance and audit committee?
Would the spread widen in a depression?

There is not an instrument traded on the market that does not have the potential to go to zero.

pmgold may be an exception and we may not have a depression.

In a proper depression ETF's even though government backed would rank below physical gold bar in one's possession. Just my opinion.

gg

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Thanks @qldfrog

Many commenters probably weren't even born when Pyramid and other banks/societies went bust in Victoria in 1990 ..

Best comment from that era (and I swear it was quoted in the media at the time); "I thought I was diversified; I had half in the Geelong Pyramid Branch and half in Ballarat Pyramid branch".

 

[qldfrog]

Thanks @qldfrog

Many commenters probably weren't even born when Pyramid and other banks/societies went bust in Victoria in 1990 leading to eventual bail outs.

Many funds are run by young boys or girls just out of Uni with connections or antiquated ex-AMP insurance salesmen.

How do they manage risk?
Look at the fine print in the ETF's for exclusions from a bust.
How do they manage forward sales, calls, puts. ?
Are they competent?
Are they taking risks hidden from the finance and audit committee?
Would the spread widen in a depression?

There is not an instrument traded on the market that does not have the potential to go to zero.

pmgold may be an exception and we may not have a depression.

In a proper depression ETF's even though government backed would rank below physical gold bar in one's possession. Just my opinion.

gg

@Garpal Gumnut , i would stay heavy on gold, and feel free to use PMGOLD if you need flexibility and convenience.between to coronovirus and markets at all high, i do not think it is a bad bet at the present

 

[Dona Ferentes]

@Garpal Gumnut , i would stay heavy on gold, and feel free to use PMGOLD if you need flexibility and convenience.between to coronovirus and markets at all high, i do not think it is a bad bet at the present

Agree. (and glad to see you using capitals; PMGOLD and all the other TLAs get lost otherwise)

 

[Dona Ferentes]

From Chuck Butlers at GCRU (Gold Charts R Us)

I haven't touched on the massive amounts of derivatives in the markets these days in a while, and then I saw this from Ainslie Bullion… “the idea that derivatives are not a source of systemic risk because the open (netted) position may seem small is one of the great misconceptions about derivatives. Derivatives fund nothing, but serve to shift exposures from one party to another and work through margins (collateral), yet they carry all the bankruptcy characteristics of debt for the out-of-the-money party. A sudden move on volatility can shift the Gross Market Value quickly, and netting provides no protection for this. Netting is about settlement amounts using prices at the point of close out. Netting does not protect any financial firm from market risk.”

In 2008, we were within an eyelash of a catastrophic moment in derivatives… Did we learn anything then? No… The number of derivatives in the markets place today far exceeds where we were in 2008… I just don’t know how to explain this any further to you folks, other than to say that The debt has grown by so much that it seems impossible for it not to eventually trigger the kind of uncontrolled or ‘disorderly’ market event that sees the derivative ‘worst case’ issue playing out. And once again I ask… Got Gold?

 

[axyd]

Yes. Physical, small, easily carried and exchanged items - only coins, not bars.

Gold investment is an insurance against the doom day. Buying ETFs and other virtual stuff - it's like buying insurance against Titanic crash from someone on Titanic.

The highest prices for gold and the time you want to sell it will be when financial markets and banks would fall. If you miss that day and won't sell it - you miss the highest sell price. So it's better to keep it handy, physical, exchangeable without requiring advanced tech (like to check bar quality) - i.e. - physical coins.

Also, virtual gold has risk of counter-party and easy for government to seize and pay you back its value at "fair" price. And "soft" risk - when provider in hard times - times when you need gold - may employ technics of abusing laws and delaying your request for months, asking you to prove this and that etc. And while eventually it may fulfil the transaction - the time of high prices when you want to sell will be long gone.

Also, probably better to keep famous and internationally recognisable coins - like maple coin.

 

[axyd]

By the way, where in Australia you can buy international coins (like Maple etc) close to the spot price?

 

[aus_trader]

Also, virtual gold has risk of counter-party and easy for government to seize and pay you back its value at "fair" price. And "soft" risk - when provider in hard times - times when you need gold - may employ technics of abusing laws and delaying your request for months, asking you to prove this and that etc. And while eventually it may fulfil the transaction - the time of high prices when you want to sell will be long gone.

Well, physical is not all that different either when it comes to politicians. Don't forget the lesson from history when owning physical gold was made illegal and had to be handed in to the Government ! They'll confiscate anything that is of value when the times get rough

By the way, where in Australia you can buy international coins (like Maple etc) close to the spot price?

Try eBay, there's a few sellers offering such coins bit above spot price + postage costs.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

It may be harder to get your paws on the physical stuff; according to Sprotts
https://www.sprottmoney.com/
all deliveries of gold in Canada are suspended as
a) offices forced to close (in Ontario at least)
b) UPS will neither insure deliveries nor seek client signatures.

(<hat-tip; Mick>)

 

[aus_trader]

I also read that there is a disconnect between the spot prices (based on futures) which has come down recently and real prices based on the price of the physical which has gone up in demand.

 

[noirua]

There is far more paper gold floating around than there is physical gold to deliver. Take very great care that it is backed for certain by physical gold. Most when it comes down to it are not - maybe a few like Sprott are but not that many more. Having the paper price backed by the gold price is not the same and may go up in smoke literally.

With companies many sell gold forward for delivery later. That can go disastrously wrong as with Sons of Gwalia Limited. St Barbara Limited did well out of it when purchasing Gwalia Deeps and mining by interconnecting old tunnels.

 

[qldfrog]

There is far more paper gold floating around than there is physical gold to deliver. Take very great care that it is backed for certain by physical gold. Most when it comes down to it are not - maybe a few like Sprott are but not that many more. Having the paper price backed by the gold price is not the same and may go up in smoke literally.

With companies many sell gold forward for delivery later. That can go disastrously wrong as with Sons of Gwalia Limited. St Barbara Limited did well out of it when purchasing Gwalia Deeps and mining by interconnecting old tunnels.

What is your view on PMGOLD regarding paper gold
Am i fooling myself in thinking they are one of the few 1:1 paper gold around?

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

It may be harder to get your paws on the physical stuff; according to Sprotts
https://www.sprottmoney.com/
all deliveries of gold in Canada are suspended as
a) offices forced to close (in Ontario at least)
b) UPS will neither insure deliveries nor seek client signatures.

(<hat-tip; Mick>)

This is very good news indeed @Dona Ferentes

Anything that increases scarcity increases value. I can provide a citation to a recent article in the Australian Journal of Toilet Roll.

It is always unwise to have physical gold in the hands of those unused to it's care, storage and retrieval.

Once the hordes have removed all those undeserving of wealth, their girlfriends and boyfriends, copper pipes and wiring, food, clothing, alcohol, cocaine and lesser substances, from Toorak or Rose Bay I intend to buy a property from a distressed seller and move in with my hoochie, old army issue and a metal detector and shovel.

gg

 

[Dona Ferentes]

AJTR ; is that competing with the longer established and decidedly more balanced JTRA?

 

[Dona Ferentes]

It is time to buy Gold bar.

My advice is to get physical.

But, golly gosh, what if we can't??

BULLION - LIMITED STOCK AVAILABLE

Due to overwhelming demand for our products during this time we are out of stock of many items and some will be subject to considerable delays before they become available again.

• Silver Bullion Coins: We have very few products still available and will focus our efforts on manufacturing the 2020 Kangaroo 1oz Silver Bullion Coins
• Gold Bullion Coins: We currently have 2020 Kangaroo 1oz and 1/10oz Gold Bullion Coins available and this will be our ongoing focus during this period.
• Cast and Minted bars: Are currently out of stock and at this time we cannot take orders for any size while we work to satisfy the current backlog of orders.

https://www.perthmint.com/covid19.aspx

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

But, golly gosh, what if we can't??

https://www.perthmint.com/covid19.aspx

That post of mine was Jan 24th 2020.

Scarcity increases the value.



gg

 

[noirua]

Http://goldprice.org/charts/gold_3d_b_o_AUD.png