Gold - Get Physical

[Dona Ferentes]

I also read that there is a disconnect between the spot prices (based on futures) which has come down recently and real prices based on the price of the physical which has gone up in demand.

Jim Rickards recently wrote

... [a factor is] the emergence of a two-tier market. Gold futures prices and London market prices are around US$1,740 per ounce recently. But, if you call a real dealer to buy real gold, the price they quote is ‘spot plus commission’. That’s fine, but the commissions have been expanding from 2% to 4%, to 10%, and even higher in some cases.

This means that US$1,740 per ounce gold is really US$1,915 per ounce with a 10% commission. That higher commission is not the result of dealer greed. It’s the result of scarcity and the dealer’s efforts to balance supply and demand.

What it really means is that real price of gold is closer to US$1,850 per ounce once the excess commission is added to the spot price. When it comes to gold prices, forget New York and London. Real prices are already higher than you know.

Plenty of 'spot fires' around the world. For example, people are buying gold in Saudi prior to trebling of VAT. And in HK, you'd would have to see a rise in gold demand.

 

[noirua]

On the way to the next Resistance GOLD Futures by ThinkingAntsOk
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/G...xt-Resistance-GOLD-Futures-by-ThinkingAntsOk/

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I bought as much physical gold as I could bury before Covid-19 hit. Luck, but I knew that fundamentally the market was stuffed and it is, just being kept up by printed money and the Orange Clown in Washington DC. Covid has just made it glaringly obvious.

As to the future and gold futures, who knows.

If you need to think about buying gold when it's at it's all time highs and physical gold is in short supply (as it is) then a golder or futures or other derivatives/drivers are as good a way as any. I'll not be selling my bars but passing them on to the Gumnuts present and emerging.

btw Much as Prince MBS of Saudi Arabia and I do not see eye to eye on chopping alive journalists in to little pieces, it is a good bet that if he is buying it, that it is a good investment.

gg

 

[finicky]

China citizens have a lot to worry about. Doesn't look like the CCP's attempts to steer them away from Gold (for their own good of course) is taking hold yet!

Says article from 3 days ago:
https://news.bitcoin.com/major-chinese-banks-bar-customers-from-buying-gold-precious-metals/

Chinese Banks and Regulators to ‘Cool Gold Rush’

"Chinese regulators and major banks are taking measures to curb the trading of gold and other precious metals by investors in order “to cool [the] gold rush,” Reuters reported Wednesday. Gold prices hit record highs this week as investors look for safe-haven assets amid worries of rising coronavirus cases, the sinking U.S. dollar, low-interest rates, and increasing tension between the U.S. and China."

20 Year China Yuan Gold Price

 

[finicky]

Again providing an angle of perspective as to how high the USD Gold price is relative to another financial asset - the US stockmarket. Gold's not out of bounds at all - its price is only catching up to its average in these terms.
https://www.mining.com/this-50-year-chart-shows-just-how-cheap-gold-now-is-relative-to-stocks-39584/

The graph is lifted from an article published in Jan 2020 and I am taking their premises at face value (i.e correct)

Over 50 years - dating back to roughly when President Nixon reneged on the redeemability of the USD in gold for foreign governments - the S&P500 could be bought for an average 1.55 ounces of Gold:

S&P500 is today at $3327
Therefore if gold was at the average 'exchange rate' today the price would be:
$3327 ÷ 1.55 = $2,146 USD

 

[qldfrog]

Again providing an angle of perspective as to how high the USD Gold price is relative to another financial asset - the US stockmarket. Gold's not out of bounds at all - its price is only catching up to its average in these terms.
https://www.mining.com/this-50-year-chart-shows-just-how-cheap-gold-now-is-relative-to-stocks-39584/

The graph is lifted from an article published in Jan 2020 and I am taking their premises at face value (i.e correct)

Over 50 years - dating back to roughly when President Nixon reneged on the redeemability of the USD in gold for foreign governments - the S&P500 could be bought for an average 1.55 ounces of Gold:

S&P500 is today at $3327
Therefore if gold was at the average 'exchange rate' today the price would be:
$3327 ÷ 1.55 = $2,146 USD

View attachment 106987

Thanks found his quite interesting
Great find

 

[noirua]

UNPRECEDENTED: Bullion Banks Take Losses On 124 Tonnes Of Scarce Physical Gold, Plus Hedge Funds Also Exposed To Gold Short Squeeze Along With Bullion Banks
https://kingworldnews.com/bullion-banks-take-losses-on-124-tonnes-of-scarce-physical-gold/
https://kingworldnews.com/alasdair-macleod-8-8-2020/

 

[finicky]

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Gold is up and running again.

gg

 

[finicky]

Could it be near the end of a normal correction of the rally from mid June.
abc falling wedge - Ignoring the 1 day spike down in August? Resolve soon I guess.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Gold can fluctuate wildly and is for the brave to trade dynamically. See this sudden fall just some minutes ago ( NY time ) and the reason attached, job numbers and the algo stop losses kick in.Algos v.v. active this month due to traders on vacation.

gg

https://www.kitco.com/news/2020-09-...wing-rise-in-ISM-manufacturing-sentiment.html

 

[againsthegrain]

sorry if this is the wrong thread but its as close as I can find. Im thinking to get some physical bullion in Melb once the lockdown is finished. Been recommended Abc Australian Bullion Company in Melb cbd. Anybody here deal with them before?

 

[finicky]

@againsthegrain
ABC Bullion reputable, pretty sure I've bought from them in the dim past

This is the dealer I engage with and I've found them very helpful over the years. They're in the CBD:

Gold Stackers - Buy & Sell Gold & Silver Bullion Online

Gold Stackers is Australia's leading gold and silver bullion dealer. Buy or sell gold and silver at great prices. It's safe, simple, and secure.

www.goldstackers.com.au

They also offer pooled precious metal services whereby you can buy physically backed metal which they hold and you can quickly liquidate online when you decide. No storage hassles or risks, can buy and sell small amounts.

They have an historical association with silverstackers.com where you might like to check out peer to peer offers - can work out cheaper when you buy and a better deal when you sell if your metal has any premium value, such as collectable coins rather than brute metal. If you're just starting I would recommend staying away from special coins, just go for 99.99 gold, 99.9 silver, brute bullion.

Australia & New Zealand (Public)

Buy, swap or sell bullion & numismatics. Visible to general public.

www.silverstackers.com

 

[againsthegrain]

@againsthegrain
ABC Bullion reputable, pretty sure I've bought from them in the dim past

This is the dealer I engage with and I've found them very helpful over the years. They're in the CBD:

Gold Stackers - Buy & Sell Gold & Silver Bullion Online

Gold Stackers is Australia's leading gold and silver bullion dealer. Buy or sell gold and silver at great prices. It's safe, simple, and secure.

www.goldstackers.com.au

They also offer pooled precious metal services whereby you can buy physically backed metal which they hold and you can quickly liquidate online when you decide. No storage hassles or risks, can buy and sell small amounts.

They have an historical association with silverstackers.com where you might like to check out peer to peer offers - can work out cheaper when you buy and a better deal when you sell if your metal has any premium value, such as collectable coins rather than brute metal. If you're just starting I would recommend staying away from special coins, just go for 99.99 gold, 99.9 silver, brute bullion.

Australia & New Zealand (Public)

Buy, swap or sell bullion & numismatics. Visible to general public.

www.silverstackers.com

Thanx for the info, yes im strictly sticking to bullion

 

[againsthegrain]

I have been doing research on cgt from physical gold sales but it seems there is a bit of complexity.

Most of these places let you purchase upto 5k with cash without making any records.

Say I accumulate bullion over 5 years spending under 5k at a time. If I make 4 purchases per year over 5 years I would hold 100k gold now this is no longer petty change. Then in 7 years time the chart spikes or life throws a curve ball and I decide to sell it all in 1 go.

Obviously I need to keep records how much and when I bought all my holdings, but what if I don't or some bullion is donated by family etc

Not asking for advice, thinking aloud here and wondering how others handle/selling bullion from a tax perspective

 

[finicky]

I recommend that you pay a silver coin (if that's still what they do) and become a full member of silverstackers. You can talk online or what I would do is go along to one of their meetings (soirees, lol). Meetings are rare in Melbourne but a fun overnight stay in Sydney might be informative about precious metals.
I haven't sold any gold but I kept my purchase records for silver and when I sold it I paid cgt which I resented. Silver pays no interest or dividend but costs to store and is an ancient form of money. Why the hell should I have had to pay tax on it because it appreciated against the AUD? If I stored Swiss francs for years and exchanged them to my advantage against AUD whch had depreciated over the period against the CHf would I have had to pay cgt tax?
Don't overlook platinum.

 

[aus_trader]

I think people should be rewarded or at least left alone for trying to protect their assets/wealth against depreciating paper currency, not taxed

 

[againsthegrain]

So I got my first bullion bar from ABC bullion. I am curious how do people here check the Gold they buy for being genuine?

Buying from a reputable dealer with brand stamped should be a good guarantee but everything can be faked as some of the stories on the internet go around.

I was simply given a bullion bar in a pouch and a invoice, is there something I should be asking or doing upon receipt in the future?

 

[fergee]

So I got my first bullion bar from ABC bullion. I am curious how do people here check the Gold they buy for being genuine?

Buying from a reputable dealer with brand stamped should be a good guarantee but everything can be faked as some of the stories on the internet go around.

I was simply given a bullion bar in a pouch and a invoice, is there something I should be asking or doing upon receipt in the future?

Some bullion dealers have a machine to test its density I believe, a lot of them will do it for free too, you can find them in major cities.

You can do a self check with a glass of water and by measuring the size of the bar, the vid below shows the different ways tests can be done.

 

[Boggo]

So I got my first bullion bar from ABC bullion. I am curious how do people here check the Gold they buy for being genuine?

Buying from a reputable dealer with brand stamped should be a good guarantee but everything can be faked as some of the stories on the internet go around.

I was simply given a bullion bar in a pouch and a invoice, is there something I should be asking or doing upon receipt in the future?

When you decide to sell it they will check the quality, too late then though if it's substandard !