Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Re: XAO Analysis

The way the system of the economy operates is complex, time lags add to the complexity policy writers face, these factors combined make counter-cyclical macroeconomic policy impractical, as witnessed in the above example. In some cases governmental actions can actually worsen the state of the economy when trying to use monetary and fiscal policy to “fine tune” the business cycle.

Finally, effects of policy taken today will impact on the economy over years, however, no-one is accurately able to forecast that far ahead. The forecast horizon of policy makers is less than one year. (McTaggart, 2002, 790). Furthermore, it is not possible to predict the exact timing and magnitute of the effects policy will have on the economy. (McTaggart, 2002). Clearly it is evident time lags make counter-cyclical macroeconomic policy impractical.

The business cycle is inherent to any economy, characterised by expansion, peak, contraction and trough and driven by investment and the accumulation of capital. Governments use fiscal and monetary policy in order to attempt to fine-tune the business cycle. Fiscal policy is however, a plan for expenditures over multiple years and due to both recognition and administrative/political time lags is ineffective in the use of counter-cyclical policy. The crowding out effect further lags behind initial expenditures/tax cuts, leading to difficulties measuring the magnitute of economic effects for policy writers. Real-time output gaps can be measured relatively accurately, however the fact that no-one can ever predict the future leads to the notion that even the best forecasts may be badly flawed in hindsight. Quarterly national accounts data is further unreliable for economic estimates due to the time lags in the attainment of useful data. Furthermore, the majority of effects of monetary policy hit the economy over a year after initial action, thus due to time lags and the problems inherent in forecasting economic growth more than a year into the future, make “fine-tuning” the business cycle impractical. Finally, an example of the Australian economy in the early 90s recession, highlights the fact that time lags combined with the complex nature of the economy lead to policy producing detrimental economic results.

Cheers

Important part is the lags in data and time it takes for things to play out. We are just seeing the very tip of the iceburg IMHO. Give it another year or two until we really start to see some messy statistics. We are in the contraction phase, at the start of a recession IMO. At least in the US, which will of course, affect the global economy and hence, the XAO.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

T/A analyses what has happened.
T/A can offer insight into the carrying forward of past and current sentiment.
All analysis is there to be confirmed or rejected.
It neither right nor wrong.

You beat me to it.:)
 
Re: XAO Analysis

You beat me to it.:)
I just couldn't be bothered.

I discovered through recent investigations (which you know about G) that there is a whole world out there who have:

1/ a vested interest in dissing TA
2/ been indoctrinated into regarding it as voodoo
3/ has had the purpose of TA misrepresented to them
4/ unable to see past the indoctrination

What random walkers fail to realize is that the random walk hypothesis and technical analysis are not incongruent with each other. They are two sides to the same coin. Just differing philosophy on the exploitation of price.

My observation is that it may come down to credibility. Supposing Martha Higgins, a wealthy retired widow is advised by her financial wealth skimmer..... errr I mean adviser, to buy XYZ share. Martha, a bit wary of this chap's picks questions further. What is going to sound better to Martha:

1/ This share is fundamentally cheap, the PE, ROI, ROE and BS ratios all indicate this share will appreciate in value.

2/ The red line crossed the blue line.

???
 
Re: XAO Analysis

I just couldn't be bothered.

Had a long winded post hours ago but couldn't be bothered hitting submit.

Luckily, your one line has summed it up V.nicely.

3/ has had the purpose of TA misrepresented to them

I wonder how many of the punters trying to use TA are under the same misrepresentations?? Unfourtantly I think many.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

Bloody hell MRC are you an economic reporter?

is advised by her financial wealth skimmer..... errr I mean adviser,

Classic!
 
Re: XAO Analysis

Bloody hell MRC are you an economic reporter?



Classic!

lol, I was a Ministerial advisor on some topics.

Though, forget half of it already these days!

Not sure how much relevance it is, but 'expectations' and 'lags' have been talked about lately on the thread a bit, so made me remember this piece I wrote. Then again, I also wrote a piece on the effectivness of both fiscal and monetary policy ;)

Bloody economists hey!
 
Re: XAO Analysis

Give it another year or two until we really start to see some messy statistics. We are in the contraction phase, at the start of a recession IMO. At least in the US, which will of course, affect the global economy and hence, the XAO.

Why is it different this time? Australia weathered the last US economic recession rather well.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

Why is it different this time? Australia weathered the last US economic recession rather well.
Well you have to look at at why recessions happen, why the US had a recession and why Oz didn't.

The simplest explanation is that recessions are the result of malinvestment, the US had a high level of malinvestment, whereas Oz didn't.

Is this time different? Is Oz malinvested? The answer will tell us whether Oz has a recession this time.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

Why is it different this time? Australia weathered the last US economic recession rather well.

Personally, as discussed previously, this recession (if it happens and as Davo already stated), is completely different to anything I have witnessed seeing before.

Global Paradigm shift taking place and Australia is pretty well placed in comparison to many other economies. This growth in the East is further compounding, each year requires more and more resources to keep up with growth demands.

I'm still waiting to see how the US plans to get out of it's stagflation problem without causing a major recession. Look at how Japan dealt with its liquidity trap, and that is at least somewhat managable.

The lags I pointed out in relation to monetary policy are one reason I stated it is complete CB nonsense to increase rates right after they have just slashed them. So what are they going to do? How are they going to stop inflation? Expansionary fiscal (though, basically useless in a floating exchange rate economy) and monetary policy, subsidising failing industries and companies, it is just getting out of control. This has got to be one of the biggest instances of patch up mode I have studied, and ultimately, there is only one outcome IMO, which will take time to play out and come up in the data (of which is ultimately what affects the markets). China will slow, Europe will slow. All suffering from increasing inflation being driven by cost-push in the West and demand-driven in the East. Wouldn't like to be a policy writer at this time in the West :eek:.

I think most of this is covered in the "imminent and severe market correction" thread.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

I discovered through recent investigations (which you know about G) that there is a whole world out there who have:

1/ a vested interest in dissing TA
2/ been indoctrinated into regarding it as voodoo
3/ has had the purpose of TA misrepresented to them
4/ unable to see past the indoctrination

I'm biting - but see next comment.

What random walkers fail to realize is that the random walk hypothesis and technical analysis are not incongruent with each other. They are two sides to the same coin. Just differing philosophy on the exploitation of price.

I completely agree with you on this point, which makes your first points all the more fascinating - care to expand on them a little?
 
Re: XAO Analysis

Ha! No wonder we are in such a mess!! :D:D

;)

Well they listen to advice about............0% of the time! :rolleyes:

Not that my advice would make much difference! lol.

Agree with the EW target by Nick though, fundamentally, I would think the low 4000s sometime within the next year would be a fair call.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

Here is the weekly chart we've been working with. If symmetry is to be made then 4200 is the target...


xjo_weekly.png




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thank god im half way thru your book, its starting to all make sense...
 
Re: XAO Analysis

;)

Well they listen to advice about............0% of the time! :rolleyes:

Not that my advice would make much difference! lol.

Agree with the EW target by Nick though, fundamentally, I would think the low 4000s sometime within the next year would be a fair call.

are you from an economics background? yes im new
 
Re: XAO Analysis

;)

..... I would think the low 4000s sometime within the next year would be a fair call.

That's quite a long time-frame but, given this volatility, maybe it is impossible to say otherwise.

Oh well..... Must keep smiling. :)
 
Re: XAO Analysis

Most of what is happening now, is still lagging into the data.

Just for the sake of it, here is a piece I wrote a few years ago. Feel free to attempt to rip it to shreds those who enjoy their economics. If you want the graphs I am referring too, I can post them up seperately, but theres quiet a few of them.

I'm broadly familiar with these arguments. There is another argument that because of these lags and political considerations, governments generally make things worse. Governments should make and enforce the rules, but not try to "tune" or "drive" the cycle.

However, the present situation is not an ordinary cycle. We have had a lengthy period of unusual credit expansion, which is now unwinding along classical "Austrian" lines. Government intervention in the USA is almost certainly making things worse in the long run, but is inevitable. RBA raising rates here will probably precipitate credit unwinding, which will be painful but is also inevitable. Our children may again buy houses for 3-4x incomes.

We have now had a further piece of bad news: the ANZ and I repeat: there is more to come. Banks have made bad investments and have now lost their primary means of generating income. The consequences will be severe. Platitudes about our banks being "safe" are meaningless.

I thought I would own CBA forever. I now doubt I will ever own it again.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

I discovered through recent investigations (which you know about G) that there is a whole world out there who have:
1/ a vested interest in dissing TA
2/ been indoctrinated into regarding it as voodoo
3/ has had the purpose of TA misrepresented to them
4/ unable to see past the indoctrination
What random walkers fail to realize is that the random walk hypothesis and technical analysis are not incongruent with each other. They are two sides to the same coin. Just differing philosophy on the exploitation of price.

I have no vested interest and I draw my own conclusions. Much of TA (including some in this forum) is voodoo. It relies on making predictions that are vague enough they can be justified after the event, but are not scientifically testable. I am happy to put money on that.

Random walk is even worse: it predicts nothing and is routinely proven wrong even when it does that!

TA is a useful guide to (a) what the market thinks is going to happen (b) what some knowledgeable individuals are doing in the market. The challenge for proponents of TA is to know when to stop.

History is a better guide to the long-term behaviour of markets than EW or Kondratiev or whatever. The last crash is a better guide to this crash than any levels you can draw on graph paper.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

It relies on making predictions that are vague enough they can be justified after the event,

This is where TA gets seriously and intentionally misrepresented. Apart from the esoteric schools of Gann & EW (and even then I'm not so sure they are supposed to predict), it does not "predict", nor does it rely on any prediction. It deals in probabilities and expectancy, thus is probably closer to game theory.

The big problem is that the vast bulk of TAers don't understand this either, and probably explains the failure rate.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

I'm biting - but see next comment.

I completely agree with you on this point, which makes your first points all the more fascinating - care to expand on them a little?
Michael,

I had occasion to walk into the world of financial planning and have a bloody good sniff around.

I walked out unimpressed and underwhelmed (apart from the cash these bastards manage to skim from the financially inept).

While I was in the devils den, I was exposed to various financial propaganda as espoused by Satan's spawn. Part of that is a completely pre-emptive campaign against charting of any description; mouthing such hollow and easily disprovable nonsense such as "there is no such thing as a rich chartist". Baaaaaaaahhh!

Whether technical analysis is suitable for any individual - and for the vast majority of FPs and their clients, it isn't - is beside the point.

(**)In the absence of genuine financial knowledge, analytical skills, ethics and morals, about the only thing FPs rely have to sell, is perception.

It is the perception that they are knowledgeable is what these clowns try to promulgate. They do this by:

1/ Baffling clients with bullsh!t, random walk theory, EMH, fancy software projections etc.

2/ Undermining any kind of intellectual competition, particularly that which seeks to educate their clients enough to think they can do it themselves.

3/ Undermining any sort of financial activity that requires regular low commission attendance to an individuals portfolio (options are a big no-no, also see (**) above). This takes away time they should be pitching to new clients.

Hence TA or any sort of active trading/investing is totally against the FPs self interest... they'd probably screw it up anyway.

This is where the Time in rather than Timing the market comes from. They don't want to see the client after they have secured their commissions, except maybe once a year to try and churn the portfolio a bit.

These attitudes become entrenched in the FP community and take on the form of dogma. They are repeatedly mouthed without any thought as to their accuracy, it is simply a mantra that they don't realize is BS.

Don't get me wrong, many FPs are very genuine, but it is simply the environment they live in. Few are worth a cracker.

There, rant over.
 
Re: XAO Analysis

I thought I would own CBA forever. I now doubt I will ever own it again.

That's the sort of pessimism that hints to me that we are approaching a market bottom of sorts. Not necessarily THE bottom, but probably a major one.

Sentiment and EW or even most other TA for that matter go hand in hand.

It's a far cry from the hyper bullish cries on these boards 12 months ago!!

Cheers
 
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