Would you go to war?

[Nyden]

And all women are beautiful amazonian tatiana like specimens who can leap tall buildings in a single bound?

No. My argument is simply one of equality. If women expect/receive equal rights in all facets of life, is it asking too much to share equal responsibilities in all facets as well? I see women as equal, treat them as equal - I don't place them at higher, nor lower value to myself. The notion of 'taking care' of women is archaic, and somewhat unfair. It's obviously still prevalent though ...

 

[Conza88]

Offcourse if every citizen was "armed" then they can put up resitence, But my comment was in regards to someone saying it would be better if everyone just stayed in their own small area and defended it rather than uniting in one big push to drive out the attackers.

Picture a large pub filled with over a hundred normal aussies, suddenly 10 highly trained ninjas turned up an started attacking one group of aussie pub goers at a time, it might take them a while but these ninjas will easily work there way through the pub one table at a time bashing groups of 2 or 3 people, this is how an invader would work. the best option would be for the whole pub to unite and fight of the ninjas at once since they would out number them 10 to 1.

If you let the attackers choose when and where to fight, they will divide your forces and smash small groups one at a time with concentrated fire.

But you have Private Defense organizations (Like Security Guards at a pub)

 

[Buster]

Hey Tyson,

picture a city like sydney, if the defenders were spread right across the region, the defence would be spread so thinly that when a concentrated force of infantry and armour, backed by air support and artillery advance using skilled tactics they would roll through the suburbs like a hot knife through butter.

I'm tipping you've not been part of a military operation.. IMHO most recent operations have been successful due more to good luck than good management. Anyway, back to being overrun, just have a cursory look at what has taken place in IRAQ (a relatively small country with reasonable ease of access) over the last number of years.. America, with all its military technology and means are still encountering resistance and have limited control.. and this is with multi national military and logistic support..

Australia is naturally a 'Hard' target.. All the more difficult when other elements are introduced into the mix..

Cheers,

Buster

 

[Buster]

Hey Nyden

No. My argument is simply one of equality. If women expect/receive equal rights in all facets of life, is it asking too much to share equal responsibilities in all facets as well? I see women as equal, treat them as equal - I don't place them at higher, nor lower value to myself. The notion of 'taking care' of women is archaic, and somewhat unfair. It's obviously still prevalent though ...

Not sure if you've looked recently, but we have lots of women on the Ships these days.. And the Ships have a much nicer smell to them these days..

Cheers,

Buster

 

[Nyden]

Hey Nyden



Not sure if you've looked recently, but we have lots of women on the Ships these days.. And the Ships have a much nicer smell to them these days..

Cheers,

Buster

Yep, I know that. My question though; was whether or not women would be conscripted? Or, is there simply too much of the old philosophies left?

 

[Sean K]

No. My argument is simply one of equality. If women expect/receive equal rights in all facets of life, is it asking too much to share equal responsibilities in all facets as well? I see women as equal, treat them as equal - I don't place them at higher, nor lower value to myself. The notion of 'taking care' of women is archaic, and somewhat unfair. It's obviously still prevalent though ...

The argument should be regarding equity in this regard, not equality, imo. Males are more suited to some things than females and females better than males. All part of the reason why we have survived. Thankfully. This is archaic in the sence that it always has been the way. Men protect the cave while the women pick cave window curtains. Thankfully. Things are changing I think, but it'll be a long time before the female heavy weight champion of the world downs her male counterpart. Of course, Demi Moore did make a great SEAL, and I'd have her in my team any day.

 

[sting]

Just to lighten the mood a bit for those of you who have said that they would defend or country this is a way to prepare yourself.

Want to be a soldier, but really don't want to commit precious years of your life?
Here are some easy ways to simulate exactly what it's like to be an Australian soldier...

FIELD LIFE

Surround yourself with people who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish,
bitch/whine/complain about EVERYTHING, and use foul language that would
make a teamster blush.

Pack three days worth of clothes and toiletries. Live in your backyard for
two weeks. Go into the house only once in that two weeks to shower. Dig a
hole in your back yard and live in it. Allow no direct contact with your
family. Your only means of communication should be with letters that your
neighbours have held for at least three weeks, discarding two of five.

Every two days, fill in the hole, move to another part of the yard and dig another hole. Every time you are approximately half-way through digging the hole, have somebody come by, compliment you
on the fine hole you've dug and tell you to fill it in and dig it somewhere else.

Always dig a hole next to the hole you're living in. This is your toilet. Re-dig the hole every time your move your living hole. Fill in the old hole and mark it with a "Foul Ground" sign. Have
somebody remove the sign while you're not looking. Dig in that exact space in 1 month's time.

Collect a jar-full of ants, dirt, various bugs and mosquitos. Pour them down the back of your shirt.

Have week old fruit and vegetables delivered to your back yard and have your neighbour give you one per day until they all go rotten and have to be thrown out. Watch your neighbour eat as many as he wants, because he's non-tac.

If it doesn't rain, turn on the sprinklers.

If you're incredibly tired and fed-up one night, stand on guard duty in your hole from 3 a.m. to 6 a.m.
Don't sleep at all that day, even though there's nothing to do.

Sleep for only twenty minutes at a time. No matter how tired you are. Even though there's nothing to do.

Cook your meals in your shaving mug. Eat everything cold. Buy food with instructions in Yiddish, so it never turns out how it should.

Eat everything in three minutes. After eating, sit around for two hours, glad you ate everything in 3 minutes.

Buy two rolls of toilet paper. Ensure one of these two rolls is wet all the time.

Run around your yard, periodically throwing yourself to the ground and crawling for at least 20 meters -- or smack your shins, knees and elbows with a hammer to gain the same effect.

For two days in a row, walk 10 kilometers without stopping. Wear a poorly fitting back pack with fifty-five kg of weight in it. Bitch and whine the whole way.

When making sandwiches, leave the bread out for six days, or until it is hard and stale. Alternatively, put grated carrott, pineapple and tomato on everything so your bread runs down your arm like a liquid.

Have one meal a week served to you floating in it's own grease in a large cooler or similar insulated container. Serve coffee, juice and other beverages the same way.

LIFE ON BASE

Surround yourself with people who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish, bitch/whine/complain about EVERYTHING, and use foul language that would make a teamster blush.

Wear only military uniforms. Even though nobody cares, clean and press one ceremonial uniform and wear it for 20 minutes on the whim of some crusty old guy who yells at you.

Ask for equipment or articles of clothing you really need, have somebody tell you that you're not entitled to it. Walk away without recourse.

Have your spouse whine about how you're always on deployment. Get her to put on 20kg and wear your PT army shorts around in public. Take away her makeup and leg waxing strips.

Whenever you're bored, get drunk. Be bored often.

Study the owner's manual for all household appliances. Routinely take an appliance apart, clean it and put it back together, even though it hasn't been used.

Start a project, any project. Have somebody continually stop by and make stupid suggestions to make the job "easier". Say "yes sir" and do it the way they told you to do it. After they leave, go back to doing it the right way.

Repaint your vehicle every month, whether it needs it or not.

Move every two years. Whether you want to or not. When you get to a place you really hate, stay there for fifteen years or until your wife leaves you and you lose everything. Have your application for reposting accepted a year after she leaves.

Replace all your appliances and furniture with those which are outdated, in need of constant repair or dangerous to use. Do more with them than you would if they were new.

If you have nothing to do, clean something that doesn't need cleaning.

TRAINING ENVIRONMENT

Surround yourself with people who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish, bitch/whine/complain about EVERYTHING, and use foul language that would make a teamster blush.

Run. Run a lot. Once in the morning, once at noon and once before supper.

Run at least five kilometers each time, pretending you really want to do this because you want to appear 'hard'.

Stand to attention in a parking lot in the hot sun for five hours, or until you pass out and fall face first into the asphalt. Have somebody yell at you the entire time. Have this same person nitpick
at you incessantly and then fine you $650.00 and confine you to your room for a week, coming out only to go to the bathroom, shower, eat and march with a pack on in your free time.

Have somebody yell at you every time you're stupid enough go outside without a hat on, slouch, or put your hands in your pockets.

Cut your hair weekly, making it shorter each time, until you look bald or look like you lost a fight with a demented sheep shearer.

Give yourself twenty minutes less than you need for lunch. Eat so fast you don't taste the food.

Clean and shine everything to perfection. Have somebody yell at you and call you a filthy pig. Pretend to clean and shine everything to perfection again (changing nothing), Have the same person inspect it and say "good turnout".

INTERACTION WITH CIVILIANS

Leave the people behind who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish, bitch/whine/complain about EVERYTHING, and use foul language that would make a teamster blush.

Whenever civilians say or do anything stupid (it happens a lot) shake your head and mutter in your most contemptuous/condescending voice; "f$#!in' civvies".

Use copious amounts of acronyms, NEVER explain them. When asked to explain shake your head and mutter in your most contemptuous/condescending voice; f$#!in' civvies".

Have other people say stupid things to you like: "you don't pay taxes, do you?", "you get free housing", "man, you must get paid a lot". Shake your head and mutter in your most contemptuous/condescending voice; "f$#!in' civvies".

Demand that everyone never thank you for anything you do for them, look at you in a condescending manner and call you names like "G.I. Joe", AJ (Army Jerk) and "soldier boy". Shake your head and mutter in your most contemptuous/condescending voice; "f$#!in' civvies".

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

lol sting.

Spoken like a true rifleman.

Or you could join the RAAF or Navy.

Iron yer uniform every day, put on aftershave if you shave or if you don't, Never see a mossie etc etc etc .

lol

gg

 

[sting]

lol sting.

Spoken like a true rifleman.

Or you could join the RAAF or Navy.

Iron yer uniform every day, put on aftershave if you shave or if you don't, Never see a mossie etc etc etc .

lol

gg

Sorry Garpal, Can't play a musical instrument so the Navy isnt for me and I would get bored ****less with a 9 to 5 job so the RAAF is out

So I'll have to stick with my old trade as a 9 mile sniper or a DS teaching blokes to "Reach out and touch someone"

 

[nunthewiser]

Just to lighten the mood a bit for those of you who have said that they would defend or country this is a way to prepare yourself.

Want to be a soldier, but really don't want to commit precious years of your life?
Here are some easy ways to simulate exactly what it's like to be an Australian soldier...

FIELD LIFE

Surround yourself with people who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish,
bitch/whine/complain about EVERYTHING, and use foul language that would
make a teamster blush.

Pack three days worth of clothes and toiletries. Live in your backyard for
two weeks. Go into the house only once in that two weeks to shower. Dig a
hole in your back yard and live in it. Allow no direct contact with your
family. Your only means of communication should be with letters that your
neighbours have held for at least three weeks, discarding two of five.

Every two days, fill in the hole, move to another part of the yard and dig another hole. Every time you are approximately half-way through digging the hole, have somebody come by, compliment you
on the fine hole you've dug and tell you to fill it in and dig it somewhere else.

Always dig a hole next to the hole you're living in. This is your toilet. Re-dig the hole every time your move your living hole. Fill in the old hole and mark it with a "Foul Ground" sign. Have
somebody remove the sign while you're not looking. Dig in that exact space in 1 month's time.

Collect a jar-full of ants, dirt, various bugs and mosquitos. Pour them down the back of your shirt.

Have week old fruit and vegetables delivered to your back yard and have your neighbour give you one per day until they all go rotten and have to be thrown out. Watch your neighbour eat as many as he wants, because he's non-tac.

If it doesn't rain, turn on the sprinklers.

If you're incredibly tired and fed-up one night, stand on guard duty in your hole from 3 a.m. to 6 a.m.
Don't sleep at all that day, even though there's nothing to do.

Sleep for only twenty minutes at a time. No matter how tired you are. Even though there's nothing to do.

Cook your meals in your shaving mug. Eat everything cold. Buy food with instructions in Yiddish, so it never turns out how it should.

Eat everything in three minutes. After eating, sit around for two hours, glad you ate everything in 3 minutes.

Buy two rolls of toilet paper. Ensure one of these two rolls is wet all the time.

Run around your yard, periodically throwing yourself to the ground and crawling for at least 20 meters -- or smack your shins, knees and elbows with a hammer to gain the same effect.

For two days in a row, walk 10 kilometers without stopping. Wear a poorly fitting back pack with fifty-five kg of weight in it. Bitch and whine the whole way.

When making sandwiches, leave the bread out for six days, or until it is hard and stale. Alternatively, put grated carrott, pineapple and tomato on everything so your bread runs down your arm like a liquid.

Have one meal a week served to you floating in it's own grease in a large cooler or similar insulated container. Serve coffee, juice and other beverages the same way.

LIFE ON BASE

Surround yourself with people who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish, bitch/whine/complain about EVERYTHING, and use foul language that would make a teamster blush.

Wear only military uniforms. Even though nobody cares, clean and press one ceremonial uniform and wear it for 20 minutes on the whim of some crusty old guy who yells at you.

Ask for equipment or articles of clothing you really need, have somebody tell you that you're not entitled to it. Walk away without recourse.

Have your spouse whine about how you're always on deployment. Get her to put on 20kg and wear your PT army shorts around in public. Take away her makeup and leg waxing strips.

Whenever you're bored, get drunk. Be bored often.

Study the owner's manual for all household appliances. Routinely take an appliance apart, clean it and put it back together, even though it hasn't been used.

Start a project, any project. Have somebody continually stop by and make stupid suggestions to make the job "easier". Say "yes sir" and do it the way they told you to do it. After they leave, go back to doing it the right way.

Repaint your vehicle every month, whether it needs it or not.

Move every two years. Whether you want to or not. When you get to a place you really hate, stay there for fifteen years or until your wife leaves you and you lose everything. Have your application for reposting accepted a year after she leaves.

Replace all your appliances and furniture with those which are outdated, in need of constant repair or dangerous to use. Do more with them than you would if they were new.

If you have nothing to do, clean something that doesn't need cleaning.

TRAINING ENVIRONMENT

Surround yourself with people who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish, bitch/whine/complain about EVERYTHING, and use foul language that would make a teamster blush.

Run. Run a lot. Once in the morning, once at noon and once before supper.

Run at least five kilometers each time, pretending you really want to do this because you want to appear 'hard'.

Stand to attention in a parking lot in the hot sun for five hours, or until you pass out and fall face first into the asphalt. Have somebody yell at you the entire time. Have this same person nitpick
at you incessantly and then fine you $650.00 and confine you to your room for a week, coming out only to go to the bathroom, shower, eat and march with a pack on in your free time.

Have somebody yell at you every time you're stupid enough go outside without a hat on, slouch, or put your hands in your pockets.

Cut your hair weekly, making it shorter each time, until you look bald or look like you lost a fight with a demented sheep shearer.

Give yourself twenty minutes less than you need for lunch. Eat so fast you don't taste the food.

Clean and shine everything to perfection. Have somebody yell at you and call you a filthy pig. Pretend to clean and shine everything to perfection again (changing nothing), Have the same person inspect it and say "good turnout".

INTERACTION WITH CIVILIANS

Leave the people behind who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish, bitch/whine/complain about EVERYTHING, and use foul language that would make a teamster blush.

Whenever civilians say or do anything stupid (it happens a lot) shake your head and mutter in your most contemptuous/condescending voice; "f$#!in' civvies".

Use copious amounts of acronyms, NEVER explain them. When asked to explain shake your head and mutter in your most contemptuous/condescending voice; f$#!in' civvies".

Have other people say stupid things to you like: "you don't pay taxes, do you?", "you get free housing", "man, you must get paid a lot". Shake your head and mutter in your most contemptuous/condescending voice; "f$#!in' civvies".

Demand that everyone never thank you for anything you do for them, look at you in a condescending manner and call you names like "G.I. Joe", AJ (Army Jerk) and "soldier boy". Shake your head and mutter in your most contemptuous/condescending voice; "f$#!in' civvies".

LOL WELL DONE

is that bit of artwork your invention ?

 

[Tysonboss1]

Hey Tyson,



I'm tipping you've not been part of a military operation.. IMHO most recent operations have been successful due more to good luck than good management. Anyway, back to being overrun, just have a cursory look at what has taken place in IRAQ (a relatively small country with reasonable ease of access) over the last number of years.. America, with all its military technology and means are still encountering resistance and have limited control.. and this is with multi national military and logistic support..

Australia is naturally a 'Hard' target.. All the more difficult when other elements are introduced into the mix..

Cheers,

Buster

well if you tipped that, you would be wrong. I worked in a special forces unit for 5 years.

Yes, The americans still encounter resistence. But there is no way the insurgents could drive out the americans, especially if you opened up their rules of engagement.

 

[Tysonboss1]

No. My argument is simply one of equality. If women expect/receive equal rights in all facets of life, is it asking too much to share equal responsibilities in all facets as well? I see women as equal, treat them as equal - I don't place them at higher, nor lower value to myself. The notion of 'taking care' of women is archaic, and somewhat unfair. It's obviously still prevalent though ...

There is already loads of woman in the army, navy and airforce.

the only restrictions placed on woman is that they can not join corps that actively fight the enemy, ie. infantry, armor, artillery and engineers.

But don't be mistaken, this does not mean that the woman are not at risk and will not have to fight in self defence. Woman will still be in the area of operations.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Sorry Garpal, Can't play a musical instrument so the Navy isnt for me and I would get bored ****less with a 9 to 5 job so the RAAF is out

So I'll have to stick with my old trade as a 9 mile sniper or a DS teaching blokes to "Reach out and touch someone"

Mate your Field Life post will have my vote for post of the year. At least RAINF taught you never to be caught with excess baggage when you travel.

You should put that article in to the Australian Weekend Magazine or Review. I'm sure they'd pay you for it mate.

gg

 

[Tysonboss1]

And all women are beautiful amazonian tatiana like specimens who can leap tall buildings in a single bound?

Are you refering to the tatiana who was a pole vaulter,... if so she is hoooot,.... lol

 

[Tysonboss1]

Hey Tyson,


Australia is naturally a 'Hard' target.. All the more difficult when other elements are introduced into the mix..

Cheers,

Buster

Australia is an easier target than Iraq,... Iraq has a population millions larger than Australia, it's population is relatively dense and borders are relatively non existent, which means weapons and foreign fighters can move freely from other middle east countries, russia, africa, or asia.

Australia however has no such luck,... our cities have much smaller populations to start with,... our population centre's can be easily cut off from each other,.. and our country borders the ocean so no such luck as bringing in foreign fighters and weapons.

 

[Tysonboss1]

But you have Private Defense organizations (Like Security Guards at a pub)

you are an idiot,..

 

[Conza88]

you are an idiot,..

I can assure you, I am far more intelligent than thou.

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.~ Herbert Spencer

You used an ad hominem, you didn't actually address the argument.

 

[darnsmall]

Imagine this...WW3...full scale war...not naming races or anything...just a question:

- Would you give up everything you have known to defend the country that has treated you so well? The lucky country as people have put it...

- Would you, in this day and age, be willing to say goodbye to loved ones and know there is a chance you may not return?

- What would you do if conscription arose?

In all honesty, I think I would go. Not because I believe in the principles of war or what it achieves, but I have so much respect and admiration for the people who fought originally and were willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for today's society...so to me...I would do the same so that future generations could enjoy the spoils of this beautiful country.

Please discuss...

Next to no chance what so ever. I don't believe in killing others or mass murder for profit and I don't believe any war will be fought for a just and righteous reason...eg, If the Islamic states decided to invade us, I couldn't hold it against them since we're trying to steal oil/resource from Iraq and have always thought we got off very lightly for killing people (non combatants)

Conscription? I'd rather go to jail...but before that I'd be getting out of the country

 

[MrBurns]

Most wars are political, no one is going to use me or mine as canon fodder to put themselves into history using that ole' "fight for your country" BS

How many died in Vietnam ???
For what ???

I've seen men permanently damaged mentally from that useless conflict.

No, piss off, use your nukes if you're that keen.

 

[JTLP]

Ah, how true. Most of us men are just pure specimens of physical strength. Wait, what's the current obesity rate? Half of us blokes (excluding myself) are beer-bellied, diabetic, cardiovascular-patients-to-be; half of which probably can't even walk 1km, let alone run it. The reality is, back in the day of older wars - the roles of men, and women were greatly defined. Men simply got a lot more exercise doing more physical forms of work, but things have vastly changed now.

Well, by this logic - I should call up the army, and tell them that women simply aren't as good as men; and perhaps my taxes should be paying them less.

Desensitized? Oh, so that's why so many vets suffer from PTSD.

Nyden i'm confused. Do you have split personalities? I distinctly remember you as being a woman...

Anyway...this 'obesity epidemic' as it has been so eloquently coined concerns roughly 50% of the POPULATION...not just males. Women don't drink beer? No diabetic women? None suffering from Cardio-vascular disease? Women running marathons daily? As Kennas floated over it...take me to this magical place! Women leaping buildings...wow

Just because I said the majority of men are physically stronger (you cannot argue that point so please don't) and that I believe they should be put to the front you get on the defensive and bring up rubbish about men being the only one's to suffer from the aforementioned problems. Grip on reality much?

I said men are more desensitized to violence...I did not say immune. I think I made mention of it earlier that no human (unless psychotic) could live through the tragedies of war unscathed either physically or emotionally. The desensitized to violence comes from Men being more inclined to video games/sports etc that have a higher level of violence/aggressive attributes that helps to desensitize them.