Would you go to war?

[Glen48]

I did time in Beerwar that was enough for me..My Farther told me he screwed a Jap in 44 .....shot him between the eyes

 

[wabbit]

My Great Uncle died at Gallipoli. (Artillery division)
My Great Grandfather was wounded in France but remained a Drill Sargeant here in Australia until the war ended.

My Grandfather and his six brothers went to WWII and three of them returned. He also had a sister that joined as a nurse, got involved with Military Intelligence where her war records were sealed for six months and afterwards promptly married an American Major (Doctor) and returned with him to California when the war ended.

I have to say that they probably don't want my soft podgy slightly over the hill body - but if they did and there was fighting on our soil or the definate possibility of fighting on our soil, I'd join up.

Sir O
__________________
Want to help newbies and maybe learn something yourself? Check out my blog.

Impressive family history....

What blog?



wabbit

 

[Tysonboss1]

Basically, why not let each citizen defend their own property, join malitia's etc?

because the invaders would roll through the suburbs one at a time and the defenders would have no chance of defending themselves against a professial pre-planned combined arms attack.

picture a city like sydney, if the defenders were spread right across the region, the defence would be spread so thinly that when a concentrated force of infantry and armour, backed by air support and artillery advance using skilled tactics they would roll through the suburbs like a hot knife through butter.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Its not all glory and hey ho. Sorry to put a damper on it. War is hell.

gg


Suicide in the Trenches
(published in the Cambridge Magazine, 23 February 1918)
Siegfried Sassoon

I knew a simple soldier boy
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.

In winter trenches, cowed and glum
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain.
No one spoke of him again.

You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.

 

[JTLP]

Agree GG...

My question was raised merely as a last resort type stance. Like could people in this day fight? It seems to me that everyone is saying how selfish society is these days; driven only to make life better for themselves and not sparing a thought for their fellow man. That is why I begged the question...would people be willing to put aside THEMSELVES and their SELFISHNESS to help out their fellow man and keep Australia beautiful for future generations.

Nyden re: Women at war. Not trying to put you offside here but I believe women should really only be made to do medical stuff etc. The fact that women are not as physically strong as men is a standout point to me; coupled with the fact that when it came to the crunch I don't think (IMO and generic statement here) that women could actually go through with the required mental state to commit to war and its doings.

Prawn: You really couldn't fight? You really couldn't put yourself on the frontline so that future generations could enjoy the spoils that you have had?

Please note I am in no way glorifying war and am not saying that it is heroic...again...just a thought provoking question...

 

[Sean K]

kennas. have you actually read the story of les darcy? are you aware what was done to him? why they did it? whom the players were? and do you think anything has changed?
.

All I know is that he dodged conscription by moving to the States.

 

[metric]

All I know is that he dodged conscription by moving to the States.

there was no conscription.....

 

[bluelabel]

Re: Would you go to war...

What if other young Aussies were on a front line across Brissie prawn defending us southerners? I suppose it's hard to imagine, but that's part of my 'defend the territory no question' position.

I agree with you on this point kennas.

I wouldnt ship out overseas but if the 'enemy' were entering port phillip bay, i'd be lobbing grenades for sure.

With the 'greater depression' (as in bigger than the great depression) or as the spinsters like to call it the 'GFC', in its formative years, WWIII is a genuine posibility in 7-10 years.

But is it going to be a north korean strike on the harbour bridge or a russian sub in port phillip bay or more to what one previous poster touced on, cashed up capitilists buying up assets. I would be more concerend about that. He who has the biggest wallet wins and right now, it isnt the 'good guys'. (america, UK, australia, etc)

:bier:

 

[Bafana]

I would defend Australia.

 

[Nyden]

Agree GG...


Nyden re: Women at war. Not trying to put you offside here but I believe women should really only be made to do medical stuff etc. The fact that women are not as physically strong as men is a standout point to me; coupled with the fact that when it came to the crunch I don't think (IMO and generic statement here) that women could actually go through with the required mental state to commit to war and its doings.

That's just sexist, and a generalization that no longer fits what a 'man' is in this day and age. Evolution may have originally set specific roles for specific genders, but society has re-defined those roles.

Not as physically strong? I know quite a few women that are quite strong, and extremely fit. Lack of mental state? Ah, yes; because I'm sure men have no issues with putting a bullet through the head of another man. I know I couldn't do it, and quite frankly; I'm too much of a latte-sipping metro sexual pretty-boy to ever survive out there :

Like I said, if women are strong enough in mind and body as to make it in the corporate world, and to have equal rights in all facets of life, then they must embrace equal responsibilities as well. It is simply unjust to have it any other way.

Kennas,

Well, as Talleyrand said "Treason is a matter of dates." I guess what I'm saying, is that if the war had progressed to the point of grenades being thrown into my house ... well, it's a pretty sure bet we've lost the war. I'd attempt to defect and join the enemy at that point My life is far more important than way of life, and as I've repeatedly stated - patriotism is simply a form of brainwashing. However, for arguments sake - I would have never been in that position to start with. I'd be on the first plane out of here with a suitcase of cash in the event of war.

 

[Sean K]

Kennas,

Well, as Talleyrand said "Treason is a matter of dates." I guess what I'm saying, is that if the war had progressed to the point of grenades being thrown into my house ... well, it's a pretty sure bet we've lost the war. I'd attempt to defect and join the enemy at that point My life is far more important than way of life, and as I've repeatedly stated - patriotism is simply a form of brainwashing. However, for arguments sake - I would have never been in that position to start with. I'd be on the first plane out of here with a suitcase of cash in the event of war.

Nyden, I haven't expressed my case very well obviously. The backyard thing was a metaphor for the country border. Obviously if we're ever attacked, you'll be long gone, so no grenades over the fence for you.

 

[prawn_86]

What if other young Aussies were on a front line across Brissie prawn defending us southerners? I suppose it's hard to imagine, but that's part of my 'defend the territory no question' position.

It is hard to imagine, but at this point i just cant visualise it as worth dying for.

Look at both WW, millions of people died, and then when its all over the countries go back to trading with each other etc. At this stage i would rather be in jail than some form of political pawn.

Thats not to say i dont admire our defence forces, i just disagree with the politics of a lot of it.

 

[Tysonboss1]

Nyden and Prawn,

I am sad to say, But if Australia was really under threat and every one was rallying to the cause, I mean even old men helping load trucks and sew camo netting, and tuckshop ladies were helping load magazines and rationing out ammo, And I saw you fleeing the scence, I would put two in your back myself.

I don't care if you don't want to fight, For every 1 soldier on the front line there are probally 5 other jobs that need to get done. By running away you are abandoning the guys who do need to fight. the least you can do is help support the logistics that are keeping the Bullets and Beans flowing to the front.

 

[Conza88]

because the invaders would roll through the suburbs one at a time and the defenders would have no chance of defending themselves against a professial pre-planned combined arms attack.

picture a city like sydney, if the defenders were spread right across the region, the defence would be spread so thinly that when a concentrated force of infantry and armour, backed by air support and artillery advance using skilled tactics they would roll through the suburbs like a hot knife through butter.

They can organize collectively. There would be private defence agencies. If every citizen is armed and hostile, they're going to have ALOT of trouble occupying especially when they're fighting Australians. Everyone suddenly becomes an enemy, lol.

The Myth of National Defence by Hans-Hermann Hoppe

or The Anarchist Society vs. the Military State: The Insignificance of the Free Rider by Vedrun Vuk (audio)

Very interesting.

 

[Tysonboss1]

They can organize collectively. There would be private defence agencies. If every citizen is armed and hostile, they're going to have ALOT of trouble occupying especially when they're fighting Australians. Everyone suddenly becomes an enemy, lol.

The Myth of National Defence by Hans-Hermann Hoppe

or The Anarchist Society vs. the Military State: The Insignificance of the Free Rider by Vedrun Vuk (audio)

Very interesting.

Offcourse if every citizen was "armed" then they can put up resitence, But my comment was in regards to someone saying it would be better if everyone just stayed in their own small area and defended it rather than uniting in one big push to drive out the attackers.

Picture a large pub filled with over a hundred normal aussies, suddenly 10 highly trained ninjas turned up an started attacking one group of aussie pub goers at a time, it might take them a while but these ninjas will easily work there way through the pub one table at a time bashing groups of 2 or 3 people, this is how an invader would work. the best option would be for the whole pub to unite and fight of the ninjas at once since they would out number them 10 to 1.

If you let the attackers choose when and where to fight, they will divide your forces and smash small groups one at a time with concentrated fire.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Offcourse if every citizen was "armed" then they can put up resitence, But my comment was in regards to someone saying it would be better if everyone just stayed in their own small area and defended it rather than uniting in one big push to drive out the attackers.

Picture a large pub filled with over a hundred normal aussies, suddenly 10 highly trained ninjas turned up an started attacking one group of aussie pub goers at a time, it might take them a while but these ninjas will easily work there way through the pub one table at a time bashing groups of 2 or 3 people, this is how an invader would work. the best option would be for the whole pub to unite and fight of the ninjas at once since they would out number them 10 to 1.

If you let the attackers choose when and where to fight, they will divide your forces and smash small groups one at a time with concentrated fire.

Mate that happens every weekend in Sydney and Melbourne pubs anyway.

gg

 

[JTLP]

That's just sexist, and a generalization that no longer fits what a 'man' is in this day and age. Evolution may have originally set specific roles for specific genders, but society has re-defined those roles.

Not as physically strong? I know quite a few women that are quite strong, and extremely fit. Lack of mental state? Ah, yes; because I'm sure men have no issues with putting a bullet through the head of another man. I know I couldn't do it, and quite frankly; I'm too much of a latte-sipping metro sexual pretty-boy to ever survive out there :

Like I said, if women are strong enough in mind and body as to make it in the corporate world, and to have equal rights in all facets of life, then they must embrace equal responsibilities as well. It is simply unjust to have it any other way.

Nyden, tell me honestly...most women wouldn't even be able to hold a candle to most mens physical capabilities. Of course it's a generalization...cause it's the truth. If women are so equal with men how come they can't run faster, jump higher, throw longer, lift more etc etc? Just the way it is sweetcheeks...and why I believe men should be on the frontline and most women couldn't handle it. AGAIN so you don't cut loose I know there are women out there who could destroy men at some things...but as a whole and on zi bell curve...Men > Women in physicality etc.

I didn't say men have a pre-determined gene etc in their brains to be able to pull the trigger...there was actually an interesting UK doco about whether people in today's society could actually go through with the act of shooting...results were surprising. It's just I believe men are more desensitized to violence and the acts of committing it; hence my conclusion that they again would be more suited to combat aspect of war. You would have to have a screw loose to actually want to maim another human...but when it comes to the crunch...if someone wants to take you down...survival of the fittest.

 

[Nyden]

Nyden, tell me honestly...most women wouldn't even be able to hold a candle to most mens physical capabilities. Of course it's a generalization...cause it's the truth. If women are so equal with men how come they can't run faster, jump higher, throw longer, lift more etc etc? Just the way it is sweetcheeks...and why I believe men should be on the frontline and most women couldn't handle it. AGAIN so you don't cut loose I know there are women out there who could destroy men at some things...but as a whole and on zi bell curve...Men > Women in physicality etc.

I didn't say men have a pre-determined gene etc in their brains to be able to pull the trigger...there was actually an interesting UK doco about whether people in today's society could actually go through with the act of shooting...results were surprising. It's just I believe men are more desensitized to violence and the acts of committing it; hence my conclusion that they again would be more suited to combat aspect of war. You would have to have a screw loose to actually want to maim another human...but when it comes to the crunch...if someone wants to take you down...survival of the fittest.

Ah, how true. Most of us men are just pure specimens of physical strength. Wait, what's the current obesity rate? Half of us blokes (excluding myself) are beer-bellied, diabetic, cardiovascular-patients-to-be; half of which probably can't even walk 1km, let alone run it. The reality is, back in the day of older wars - the roles of men, and women were greatly defined. Men simply got a lot more exercise doing more physical forms of work, but things have vastly changed now.

Well, by this logic - I should call up the army, and tell them that women simply aren't as good as men; and perhaps my taxes should be paying them less.

Desensitized? Oh, so that's why so many vets suffer from PTSD.

 

[Buster]

Hey Metric,

air show in melbourne recruiting air force cadets.......17 navy destroyers in sydney recruiting sailors....

this topic may require more thought that some here realise....

Lol.. Yes, Defence have seen an opportunity to ramp up the recruiting drive, but thats because the media are pumping every job loss for what they can.. Defence has had a hard time attracting quality for many years, now with all the economic doom and gloom the Forces may well recruit some talent in the 'hard times'.. They certainly don't forsee WW3 due to the GEC though..

Seventeen destroyers?? We've not go a single one.. We've got four very old Frigates that, despite horrendous amounts of cash over the last fifteen years spent on an 'upgrade', are absolutely useless.. nothing works.. and I mean nothing works..

We also have six newer frigates that were built here, that were described in 'Janes Fighting Ships', the #1 authority on the world's navies, as the 'best informed target in the world'.. Ouch, that would inspire confidence for the troopers serving on them.. and it all goes downhill from there.. (don't mention the subs..)

Back on topic though, I'm really not sure of the intent of the OP.. Would you go to war [to fix the GEC?].. Invade China to force them to buy our comoodities?

Presumably the question is to protect our 'interests' and that of our allies, which is exactly the role of our 'DEFENCE' (as opposed to Offence) Force..

For those suggesting that mustering a 'Dad's Army' after an invasion would be too late, you'd have to wonder then why our Defence capability is limited (notwithstanding the personnel issues). Many, many defence papers have been written on the likely 'invasion' of Australia, and the conclusion of most is that to sustain an invasion logistically is near on impossible given our distance (Isolation) from most in the world, and the vast naturally hostile environments required to be overcome once here.. Our Defence force is simply a deterrent..

I'd expect a 'ragtag' force thrown together upon invasion would certainly make life significantly more difficult for the would be 'invasion force'

Cheers,

Buster

 

[Sean K]

Ah, how true. Most of us men are just pure specimens of physical strength. Wait, what's the current obesity rate? Half of us blokes (excluding myself) are beer-bellied, diabetic, cardiovascular-patients-to-be; half of which probably can't even walk 1km, let alone run it.

And all women are beautiful amazonian tatiana like specimens who can leap tall buildings in a single bound?