Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hello Duped
All quiet on the Western Front today.
I think most of us are exhausted from endlessly regurgitating the various permutations about the future of the PIF. Roll on the vote! The result may give us more to talk about.

Rance

Just had a great though Rance Firesale all of PIF we give all the dough to my friend RickH and we let Rick make wonderful investments for us all We will all be stinking rich in no time Gee am kicking my self for not thinking of this before /////// i wonder what Rich will charge us ?????

 

[sundale]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Seamisty

I totally agree with you and appreciate your efforts in explaining (hopefully not in vain) how important it is not to liquidate.

regards

Sundale

Hi All, Time is of essence now to secure a 75% vote and there still seems to be a certain amount of confusion surrounding future outcomes for the PIF. I have just had a long phone conversation with WC and will share the information I received in the hope that it will clarify a few issues and uncertainties concerning our investment. Some are wondering why WC won't simply sell off all of the PIF assets in an orderly fashion and return the money to unit holders. The answer is because they have taken on the role as FUND MANAGERS, not ADMINISTRATORS!!! WC is not a benevolent society!Taking on the PIF is purely a business decision made by WC in the hope to make money and in doing so, PIF holders will share in the upside. Shortly all unit holders will receive their information packs where many questions are answered and clarified. The pack will also contain an 80 page explanatory memorandum on the changed structure of the Fund, approved by ASIC. I am guessing this will replace the old PDS until such times as the PIF has been stabilised and the future direction determined. OCV new board provided $3million for WC to proceed with the information forums, extra staff, operating/legal costs etc. to get to where we are at present. If WC do not get the vote to continue as a going concern, then you better have the fire brigade on speed dial, because a bonfire is what we will get. From a business perspective, if JH doesn't get that vote, then she owes no loyalty to us and only has until March to wind the PIF up. Why would WC want to change the constitution and extend the 360 day winding up period if there is no long term benefit for them? The expenses involved in engaging another RE with no prior knowledge of the PIF would be staggering in as much as the work already done by WC and paid for by OCV would have to be duplicated at our expense. Regarding the Sept 18th meeting, it will be a structured formal event, involving no discussion with guests as was the case at the Investor Forums.Anyone attending will be purely there as spectators.All votes will have been received and counted 48 hours prior to the meeting. In the event that the 5 main creditors of OCV do not accept the offer and OCV will be liquidated now as opposed to over a 3 year period, we will receive 11.8cents in the $ for only the $50mill support facility as this debt has been legally aknowledged! Even though OCV has recognised the remaining $147mill it has not been legally aknowledged at this point! So if liquidators step in we are up the creek.JH is still in discussion with OCV to negotiate 22.5cents or better for the whole amount. So even if OCV creditors accept the offer, it will still be wound up over the 3 year period. It will not remain an ongoing concern after that time, merely giving the company time to realize an orderly wind down. Regards, Seamisty

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yes its Mr Bad News I could not agree more what Jadel is saying i was thinking of going to the meeting at th GC but whats the point none of us can have a say Its just take it or leave it . A lot of unit holders might just leave it they are that pi;;';' off with the whole thing /////

Well Great Dame

If you come down with me i will shout you a beer

How are you with the ladies???

Perhaps we could pick up a couple of rich widows together

Then all our problems would be solved

 

[Robert McNaught]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

As is the case with all of these internet forums, they start out being an information sharing platform but soon degenerate into a series of personal slanging matches. I would suggest we all KEEP TO THE POINT and only post if we have something constructive to add.
The most important item on the agenda at the moment is the upcoming VOTE to see if we will be continuing with Wellington Capital. I believe we should stick with them and hope that further postings by other rational unit holders may help convince thise who are unsure, to also vote for the retention of WC.

 

[kitbee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel, don't bother with the old widows, crack onto JH (Grim Reaper) she will end up with the lot.

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am not reading this forum to be told how to vote. Most JH believers have no substance behind their faith. I am waiting to see what JH offers and if the NSX is the only way out I would rather get my money back in an orderly wind up. What are the ‘positive people’ proposing if JH doesn’t get the vote? Or is this too much for you to contemplate?

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

As is the case with all of these internet forums, they start out being an information sharing platform but soon degenerate into a series of personal slanging matches. I would suggest we all KEEP TO THE POINT and only post if we have something constructive to add.
The most important item on the agenda at the moment is the upcoming VOTE to see if we will be continuing with Wellington Capital. I believe we should stick with them and hope that further postings by other rational unit holders may help convince thise who are unsure, to also vote for the retention of WC.

Yes Robert what ever you say Robert You are right Now i want you to give us all some advice and guird us which way we should be going Are you in faviour of listing on the NSX??????? Or the ASX Which one ????????? Thats of couse if JH gets over the line We would all love to hear your views on the whole thing Thank You //////

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am not reading this forum to be told how to vote. Most JH believers have no substance behind their faith. I am waiting to see what JH offers and if the NSX is the only way out I would rather get my money back in an orderly wind up. What are the ‘positive people’ proposing if JH doesn’t get the vote? Or is this too much for you to contemplate?

Good Afternoon CableGuy Just got off the phone from WC Was told the NSX is the only way you will get any money back if any there is to be no other way //////////////

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am not reading this forum to be told how to vote. Most JH believers have no substance behind their faith. I am waiting to see what JH offers and if the NSX is the only way out I would rather get my money back in an orderly wind up. What are the ‘positive people’ proposing if JH doesn’t get the vote? Or is this too much for you to contemplate?

CableGuy

Does your local action group have an answer for you.

I am sure there are "many positive people" contemplating just that.

Regards


Splitpin

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am not reading this forum to be told how to vote. Most JH believers have no substance behind their faith. I am waiting to see what JH offers and if the NSX is the only way out I would rather get my money back in an orderly wind up. What are the ‘positive people’ proposing if JH doesn’t get the vote? Or is this too much for you to contemplate?

Your first post on here CableGuy and it comes across as hostile and sarcastic.How much money do you think you will get back via an orderly windup with an independant administrator once all the associated costs involved have been deducted? This is a genuine question and I would appreciate other people with previous experience to post their opinions of final unit values in regard to the PIF if it is liquidated. Some of the 'positive people' I know have been quietly working behind the scenes investigating other alternatives, some even getting legal advice at their own expense, and have still came to the same conclusion, listing on the NSX is nowhere near as financially detrimental as liquidation, orderly or otherwise. Regards, Seamisty

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If JH's fee is .7% of the value of the managed funds, Would not the NSX price be the current value on which her fee is calculated?

 

[goldfinger38]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If JH's fee is .7% of the value of the managed funds, Would not the NSX price be the current value on which her fee is calculated?

The net asset backing represents the so called current value of the stock traded but not necessarily the price being traded at. Investors who offer their shares on any exchange at a price that they list at may not necessarly sell them at that price as the buyers will be generally offering a price much lower which is normally the case.
So if the current NAV is 0.45 cents that is not necessarily what the buyers will be prepared to offer given the current circumstances surrounding the funds current assets, loans etc etc. given uncertainty I suspect the price may be around the liquidation price, but hey I am not "the buyer".

If you dont offer your units for sale you dont suffer the loss, however if you need more money than what is anticipated as a distribution due to commence in October then you may be forced to sell in order to raise the cash needed.

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I understand that, (and have no intention to sell). My point is Jenny's fee. If it is .7% of the current value, is the value determined by the listing rather than arbitary valuation?

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all, Well what a happy lot we are today...my my....was there a full moon last night?....All everyone has to remember is we are all in the same hole...some deeper than others....JH is our only hope I can assure you all...without her you can just call in the gravedigger to fill us all into our deep holes....Happy Days...

 

[kitbee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Now I'll let you all know before I start, I'm really, really, thick as a short plank. Can someone with a simple explanation tell me why we are dealing with JH. So far what she has done hasn't cost us a cracker. She says OCV shelled out a couple of million to get her show on the road and she paid CS or someone, "just north of $20million" for PIF. O.K. so we are now officially Wellington Premium Income Fund and there is $755million in the kitty as 29th Feb 2008,which JH is aware of , see the attachment:-


Wellington Premium Income Fund

General Information
Fund Name Wellington Premium Income Fund
Fund Status Closed
APIR Code MFS0001AU
Sector/Asset Class Mortgages - Aggressive
Morningstar Rating Not Rated
Standard & Poor's Rating Not Rated
Legal Structure Investment Fund
Fund Inception 1st Nov 2000
Fund Size $755.88 million (as at 29th Feb 2008)
Entry Price $1 (as at 30th Apr 2008)
Exit Price $1 (as at 30th Apr 2008)
Special Features Distribution statement, performance updates, annual report, tax statement, 1800 number, Lloyds of London insurance.


The next query is the title of RE, Administrator, Liquidator, etc. I feel we are being advised that we should not consider opting for an administrator or any other form of management to handle our, (it is our?) fund. I feel our affairs are being treated esoterically and in petto.
If an administrator is of no use, then are we to expect WC and crew to do us better than these poor investors in the following attachment?:-


Planners have two choices over Lift Capital

By xxxxx
Wednesday 16 July 2008
Financial planners whose clients have had their assets seized due to the collapse of Lift Capital were given two options to recover their money by the firm's voluntary administrators yesterday.
They could vote for the broker's voluntary administrator,yyyyy, to liquidate Lift, which would return about 62 cents in the dollar to creditors, yyyyy partner zzzzz said.
Choosing liquidation would leave yyyyyy with enough money for a class action against mmmmm, Lift's secured financier.
xxxxx would sue the United States-headquartered securities firm in a class action on behalf of Lift's 1019 clients - who are owed $220 million - for the way it handled the Lift situation.
Under the other option planners could vote for the voluntary administrator to implement a deed of company arrangement (DOCA), zzzzz said.
Voting for this option would boost returns to around 79 cents in the dollar, but creditors would give up the right to take class action against mmmmm and Lift's directors.
The returns would be higher as mmmmm had agreed to inject $1.4 million into the pool of funds to be redistributed back to planners, on the condition that it not get hit by a class action by xxxxx on behalf of 1019 clients.
However, creditors would be allowed to sue mmmmm in their own names.
Lift's directors had offered to put $1.15 million into the pool and remove their own claims as creditors of $1.29 million if administrators proceeded with the DOCA.
xxxxx partners' yyyyyy and jjjjjjj recommended the DOCA at yesterday's creditors meeting in Sydney.
Planners have until mid-September to vote.
Lift went into voluntary administration on April 10. mmmmm had sold $650 million of Lift's stock to replenish the money it lent to the broker.


Thanks to DoraNBoots, you're good value, should be more of you.

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel, don't bother with the old widows, crack onto JH (Grim Reaper) she will end up with the lot.

JH would not like me to much after the last meeting in Brisbane

I still reckon my only chance is a rich widow ???

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Precisely my point Seamisty. If people have consulted with experts then tell the actual facts that have come out of those meetings. Don’t just tell me how to vote. I’ll decide that based on the data provided.
JH will take over $20 million over 5 years. $3 million per year based on .45 cent unit but that doubles sometime before 5 years if JH reaches her goal. Liquidator will take $20 million. Octaviar quoted $20 million in their liquidation figures and that’s a lot more complex than the PIF.
The 6 cent per unit distribution is nothing out of the ordinary. JH isn’t pulling this out of her pocket. It comes from the interest on the PIFs assets. If that interest is coming in under JH than it’ll still come in while the fund is wound up. So here are my gestimates:
Liquidation by 31 March 09: 14 cents per unit
Liquidate over 3 to 5 years: 65 cents per unit (plus interest distributions which will reduce as the assets are sold.)
Stay with JH for 1 year: 45 cent units which will be sold for 14 cents on the NSX
Stay with JH for 5 years: $1 units which will be sold for 50 cents on the NSX
Of course the second option isn't available!

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I can handle people coming on here and expressing their view. Whether I agree with it or not, everyone has the right to express their opinion in a public arena such as this. You are allowed to be a misery guts, and believe that the sun may not come up tomorrow and have no ability to be optimistic about anything that may be upcoming in your life.

What I can't handle is people that come on here and talk tripe and basically just lie. This means you great dame. Today I have caught you on a second lie. You said that you spoke to WC today and they told you there is no other means of getting your money other than NSX. I spoke to them today and they are awaiting advice from JH who is still going over options. Whether that means NSX is the only avenue may prove be the case, but there is no way they could have told you that today; when the consultant that spoke to you was not in a position to know the answer. That is fact.

The other lie you told was the other day when you said that a WC consultant told you that the vote would come down to the wire in respect to WC securing 75% of the vote. That is just cr@p! I again spoke to a WC consultant about the vote and she confimed that as at 5pm when I spoke to her, WC has taken nearly 1500 callers and they always ask them at the end of the call if they would vote for WC to continue as RE and not ONE caller said they would vote to liquidate. Not one. How would they then tell you it looked tight?

I can take your non-constructive posts with nothing more than bitching about the NSX and how you want ASX, let's face it that is the sum total of them all, but please don't try and be "informative" with plain out lies OK. You can misspell all you like, as long as the content is either true or just opinion.

WC will try and contact most investors between now and the vote via phone to get a gauge how they will vote and answer as many concerns as they may have. JH is quietly confident, as I believe she would not be wasting her time if she didn't feel she had a good crack at getting 75% of the people that will vote.

 

[gazzan57]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

well said Javier....good for you!!!!!

 

[gazzan57]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Now I'll let you all know before I start, I'm really, really, thick as a short plank. Can someone with a simple explanation tell me why we are dealing with JH. So far what she has done hasn't cost us a cracker. She says OCV shelled out a couple of million to get her show on the road and she paid CS or someone, "just north of $20million" for PIF. O.K. so we are now officially Wellington Premium Income Fund and there is $755million in the kitty as 29th Feb 2008,which JH is aware of , see the attachment:-


Wellington Premium Income Fund

General Information
Fund Name Wellington Premium Income Fund
Fund Status Closed
APIR Code MFS0001AU
Sector/Asset Class Mortgages - Aggressive
Morningstar Rating Not Rated
Standard & Poor's Rating Not Rated
Legal Structure Investment Fund
Fund Inception 1st Nov 2000
Fund Size $755.88 million (as at 29th Feb 2008)
Entry Price $1 (as at 30th Apr 2008)
Exit Price $1 (as at 30th Apr 2008)
Special Features Distribution statement, performance updates, annual report, tax statement, 1800 number, Lloyds of London insurance.


The next query is the title of RE, Administrator, Liquidator, etc. I feel we are being advised that we should not consider opting for an administrator or any other form of management to handle our, (it is our?) fund. I feel our affairs are being treated esoterically and in petto.
If an administrator is of no use, then are we to expect WC and crew to do us better than these poor investors in the following attachment?:-


Planners have two choices over Lift Capital

By xxxxx
Wednesday 16 July 2008
Financial planners whose clients have had their assets seized due to the collapse of Lift Capital were given two options to recover their money by the firm's voluntary administrators yesterday.
They could vote for the broker's voluntary administrator,yyyyy, to liquidate Lift, which would return about 62 cents in the dollar to creditors, yyyyy partner zzzzz said.
Choosing liquidation would leave yyyyyy with enough money for a class action against mmmmm, Lift's secured financier.
xxxxx would sue the United States-headquartered securities firm in a class action on behalf of Lift's 1019 clients - who are owed $220 million - for the way it handled the Lift situation.
Under the other option planners could vote for the voluntary administrator to implement a deed of company arrangement (DOCA), zzzzz said.
Voting for this option would boost returns to around 79 cents in the dollar, but creditors would give up the right to take class action against mmmmm and Lift's directors.
The returns would be higher as mmmmm had agreed to inject $1.4 million into the pool of funds to be redistributed back to planners, on the condition that it not get hit by a class action by xxxxx on behalf of 1019 clients.
However, creditors would be allowed to sue mmmmm in their own names.
Lift's directors had offered to put $1.15 million into the pool and remove their own claims as creditors of $1.29 million if administrators proceeded with the DOCA.
xxxxx partners' yyyyyy and jjjjjjj recommended the DOCA at yesterday's creditors meeting in Sydney.
Planners have until mid-September to vote.
Lift went into voluntary administration on April 10. mmmmm had sold $650 million of Lift's stock to replenish the money it lent to the broker.


Thanks to DoraNBoots, you're good value, should be more of you.

If there was $755.88m in our fund in Feb 08....where did it all go by May 08?