Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Dora

Sorry late in replying have this dreadful virus that going around .

I think we are talking timescales here , obviously selling units in listed property trusts at this time ,with one of the worst disasters in history the Sub prime Crisis( which has shaken the financial system to its core )would be foolhardy .

Once America and the world recover from this catastrophe the property sector will recover, we also need to complete and sell the projects under development.

Therefore, In my opinion we need at least three years to enable the assets to regain value. That is why I an in favor of an incentive based scheme on any asset sales with a chosen Manager or Administrator, under those circumstances I am certain we would receive a fair price for the funds assets.

This is a very different proposition from the piecemeal sell off at fire sale prices given as our onlyoption ,which to answer your question may indeed receive less than the 45cents value .

In any event , any rational alternative is now only of academic interest ,we have only been given two choices, the “Devil or the Deep Blue Sea” and I think most people intend to take the former. If that is the democratic vote then so be it.

However , people need to understand the harsh realities of the situation ,Jenny Hutson can not make a fair price at NTA value in a trading market.

Now you may ask, why is this guy is so frightened of being listed , well apart from all the previously mentioned dangers of a Placement or Non renounce able Rights Issue which can devalue our assets at the stroke of a pen ,I also happen to have a nephew who only purpose in life is to write Quantum Algorythyms ( mathematical formulae ) for a major investment Bank trading in listed equities

The price of a listed asset value can and is manipulated by these financial groups either upwards or downwards to suit their purpose.

If you have any doubts check out how Goldman Sachs made a its main profit for the last few years (it wasn’t from investment banking )

In respect of the other investment schemes I do know something about the Maximum yield fund as one of our AG members had a major investment in this scheme .

The money was invested at a stated return of 15% anything over would go to OCV and the investment could only be withdrawn on a group vote.

Basically their is nothing left in the Maximum Yield Fund all of the money was unlawfully withdrawn and placed in OCV. Jenny Hutson herself has admitted to him verbally that this is a case of fraud.

Regards Chris.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Dora

Sorry late in replying have this dreadful virus that going around .

I think we are talking timescales here , obviously selling units in listed property trusts at this time ,with one of the worst disasters in history the Sub prime Crisis( which has shaken the financial system to its core )would be foolhardy .

Once America and the world recover from this catastrophe the property sector will recover, we also need to complete and sell the projects under development.

Therefore, In my opinion we need at least three years to enable the assets to regain value. That is why I an in favor of an incentive based scheme on any asset sales with a chosen Manager or Administrator, under those circumstances I am certain we would receive a fair price for the funds assets.

This is a very different proposition from the piecemeal sell off at fire sale prices given as our onlyoption ,which to answer your question may indeed receive less than the 45cents value .

In any event , any rational alternative is now only of academic interest ,we have only been given two choices, the “Devil or the Deep Blue Sea” and I think most people intend to take the former. If that is the democratic vote then so be it.

However , people need to understand the harsh realities of the situation ,Jenny Hutson can not make a fair price at NTA value in a trading market.

Now you may ask, why is this guy is so frightened of being listed , well apart from all the previously mentioned dangers of a Placement or Non renounce able Rights Issue which can devalue our assets at the stroke of a pen ,I also happen to have a nephew who only purpose in life is to write Quantum Algorythyms ( mathematical formulae ) for a major investment Bank trading in listed equities

The price of a listed asset value can and is manipulated by these financial groups either upwards or downwards to suit their purpose.

If you have any doubts check out how Goldman Sachs made a its main profit for the last few years (it wasn’t from investment banking )

In respect of the other investment schemes I do know something about the Maximum yield fund as one of our AG members had a major investment in this scheme .

The money was invested at a stated return of 15% anything over would go to OCV and the investment could only be withdrawn on a group vote.

Basically their is nothing left in the Maximum Yield Fund all of the money was unlawfully withdrawn and placed in OCV. Jenny Hutson herself has admitted to him verbally that this is a case of fraud.

Regards Chris.

Hi Jadel, if as you say there is definately fraud..then how come ASIC or some other body can't make them give the money back and prosecute them?
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Jadel, if as you say there is definately fraud..then how come ASIC or some other body can't make them give the money back and prosecute them?


Gazzan

The person mentioned does intend to to take the matter to the police and take legal action . In respect of ASIC i believe they are conducting an investigation into the PIF.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good afternoon all Rang WC today asked when we would get our tax statements Was told end of this Month or early next Month They thionk the vote will go down to the wire & will be a cliff hanger Dose anyone know how many people will fit in that meeting room on the Gold Coast They are expecting a crowd Could not give an answer if we all cant fit in I asked who will count the votes she did not know said maybe Perputal //////////
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

That contradicts what they told me last week in which they said 90% of the 1200 callers they had spoken to would be voting for wc to continue being re. Maybe they are now telling people the close to wire spiel to ensure they get a landslide.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

That contradicts what they told me last week in which they said 90% of the 1200 callers they had spoken to would be voting for wc to continue being re. Maybe they are now telling people the close to wire spiel to ensure they get a landslide.
I am only repeating what the lady told me on the phone I agree what your saying Javier About a landslide And if it is Its all the way with the Dopey NSX ///////
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

ATTENTION ALL SYDNEY AG MEMBERS

We're in the process of organising a meeting for the sydney leg of the action group. Anyone wishing to be part of the group or to participate in part of the committee please email me on.

zixo7@hotmail.com
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dose anyone know how many people will fit in that meeting room on the Gold Coast They are expecting a crowd Could not give an answer if we all cant fit in I asked who will count the votes she did not know said maybe Perputal //////////

Great Doom, welcome back... i understand the convention centre has two auditoriums; capacity of each is 6,000 seats as well as smaller ones which, depending on configuration, can hold up to 3,500. Go to: http://www.gccec.com.au

Rance :)
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Great Doom, welcome back... i understand the convention centre has two auditoriums; capacity of each is 6,000 seats as well as smaller ones which, depending on configuration, can hold up to 3,500. Go to: http://www.gccec.com.au

Rance :)
Hi everyone,
I do not believe that it matters how many attend the meeting because the vote will probably be won or lost before the meeting is conducted. I would assume that the majority of voters will have already posted their votes being either for JH or against. If the vote is split - say because some people do not want a listing on the NSX. JH could possibly lose.
At this point in time we should not confuse the major issue and remember that it will take a 75% vote for JH or PIF could liquidate. Everything else can be completed and discussed and processed in the near or longer term future.
RickH.
JH MUST GET A 75% VOTE TO HAVE ANY CHANCE OF GETTING $1.00 PLUS 6 CENTS PER ANNUM.:couch
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Jadel for your post. I hope you are feeling better!

I’m wondering what peoples thoughts are on the attached figures. WC said of the 32 commercial loans totalling $360mill only 12 are in compliance. Is this normal? Also would some of these be the dud loans from OCV which we have a claim for?

So the 14 cent figure is if the fund must be wound up by end of March 09 (I can’t see how WC call this an orderly realisation of assets). Does anyone have an estimate what an orderly wind up over a number of years might give us? Can anyone explain how this would happen? Most of the loans mentioned in the attachment are overdue anyway so would the administrator just wait for the projects to be completed to pay us out rather than reinvesting if the fund continues?
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Dora

Am on the mend I think.

I am beginning to question, whether or not Jenny Hutson fire sale liquidation proposal at 14 cents would be considered by a Court of Law as a rational alternative, and in the best interest of investors ,as opposed to a long term Administrator or Manager, who if appointed ,could undertake an orderly wind up and certainly sell our assets at better value than that paltry sum over say, a three year period .

Of course it is impossible to speculate on what that figure would be .

In my opinion investors are being placed under unwarranted intimidation to vote for her plans .
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

In my opinion investors are being placed under unwarranted intimidation to vote for her plans .

Eh? Jadel, if you don't agree with JH's plan, don't feel "unwarrantly intimidated"... just don't vote for her!

I don't feel intimidated (unwarrantly or otherwise).... I like her plan and the legal and other actions she has initiated and I will vote for her...

Rance
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I also like the fact that we will get a 3 cent return by Christmas, god knows when we would get anything from anybody else. I will vote for JH too!!
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I understand the intimidation comment because if you are told you only have two options and one is to get 14 cents then most will go with the other option. But what about a 3rd option? Why isn’t WC giving us the information to make an informed decision on the option to have the constitution changed to allow an orderly windup of assets over a number of years? WC are the only ones with the information that could give us details on estimate returns for this option but seem to not even want us to consider it. I realise they want the fund to keep going and are not interested in an orderly wind up (long or short) but I think we should be given all the details and options so each of us can decide which best suits OUR circumstances (not theirs).
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Jadel for your post. I hope you are feeling better!

I’m wondering what peoples thoughts are on the attached figures. WC said of the 32 commercial loans totalling $360mill only 12 are in compliance. Is this normal? Also would some of these be the dud loans from OCV which we have a claim for?

DoraNBoots

I feel like a goobsmacked mullet with a loan book like ours.

Why don't we put it in the correct perspective of "22 loans in default with an outstanding loan value owning of approx $280M of a total of 32 loans.

So much for the compliance plan and committee.

It will be interesting to see WC's plan for this lot.


Splitpin
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The big loan there for Sylvania will be settled soon when they finalise the sale. PIF sold the property as mortgagee in possesion and we will get all that loan back I think. The rest we have to go to completion and do the same..that's why WC is the way to go rather than just fire sale these projects at whatever stage they are at!
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I understand the intimidation comment because if you are told you only have two options and one is to get 14 cents then most will go with the other option. But what about a 3rd option? Why isn’t WC giving us the information to make an informed decision on the option to have the constitution changed to allow an orderly windup of assets over a number of years? WC are the only ones with the information that could give us details on estimate returns for this option but seem to not even want us to consider it. I realise they want the fund to keep going and are not interested in an orderly wind up (long or short) but I think we should be given all the details and options so each of us can decide which best suits OUR circumstances (not theirs).
Easy to answer that one Dora WC thinks that we all pretty dumb & dont know any better & we are all easley lead SIMPLE //////
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Jadel for your post. I hope you are feeling better!

I’m wondering what peoples thoughts are on the attached figures. WC said of the 32 commercial loans totalling $360mill only 12 are in compliance. Is this normal? Also would some of these be the dud loans from OCV which we have a claim for?

So the 14 cent figure is if the fund must be wound up by end of March 09 (I can’t see how WC call this an orderly realisation of assets). Does anyone have an estimate what an orderly wind up over a number of years might give us? Can anyone explain how this would happen? Most of the loans mentioned in the attachment are overdue anyway so would the administrator just wait for the projects to be completed to pay us out rather than reinvesting if the fund continues?

Thanks for the spreadsheet Dora - very helpful.

Hello All,
A sort by due date payable shows that there are 11 loans yet to fall due and 21 are overdue: a value of nearly $242 Million.
If they are all like the Wollongong property (if it's the one I think it is) it is incomplete and in the heart of a development where the supply of units has exceeded demand in the current housing market. There are still units available in new high rise blocks in Wollongong which were completed a year ago.

Considering the commercial options for this property, there are a number of scenarios:

1) Determine the contract and sell the building to a contractor/developer for his completion. It is about 75% complete. The value of progress payments will probably be in excess of the value of work done and in todays market the asset value to a contractor/developer will probably be a maximum of 75% of the value of work completed. So I reckon the $57 million loan may realise $31 million if the sale is not forced.

2) If it has to be sold before 1st March 2009 we could get less than half the value of work completed at say less than $21 Million.

3) Await the completion of the units and the eventual sale with perhaps some of the units being sold at discount and in two or three years we could get most of our $57 Million, maybe $51 Million.

The order of magnitude of the figures based on my knowledge of the construction industry - albeit factories rather than high rise residential - are about what JH quotes as being applicable to the unit values under her three scenarios -$1.00 (3 above), 65 cents (1 above) and 45 cents (2 above). There must be some write-downs and huge receivership fees involved for us to get only 14 cents for our units.

I have no idea how to get from where we are to an "orderly wind up". We have only the trade out and the fire sale options on offer from JH. Maybe there is no orderly wind up option because the 360 day law regarding suspension of payment of dividends means termination of the fund and payment to us within 360 days from the start of the suspension period. I am just guessing. Any one know why? I tried ringing the hotline but it was busy.

I also wanted to know whether or not interest payments were being made on those outstanding loans. Any one know?

Mutchy
 
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