Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Javier · 29 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

WC confirmed with me today that PWC was in a separate room in their office still auditing the PIF..and they still were not close to completion!

What the hell did those MFS bas.tard.s do with our money for it to be soooo complex?????

great dame · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

flatback said:
Duped i weighed up the pros and cons early in the piece,i am still of the opinion that NSX should be stopped,we have not been told anything to the contrary from JH, i will not change my view on this subject,we must have another avenue to sell our units at a later date,JH in my view must indicate to us that she has an alternative to NSX down the track, only when she can will i change my stance,i dont believe she will disclose anything at this stage for the reasons i have said in my previous postings. duped i didnt mean to go so hard on you in regard to the voting, i misread your intention, except my apology.cheers Flatback

Flatback there is an alternative to the NSX its the ASX If if has to be lited the ASX is the only way believe me /////////

SPLITPIN · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Javier said:
WC confirmed with me today that PWC was in a separate room in their office still auditing the PIF..and they still were not close to completion!

What the hell did those MFS bas.tard.s do with our money for it to be soooo complex?????

Javier

The term I believe is called "financial engineering".

In other words you have to be a forensic expert to even think about how it was designed to deceive, hide away, etc. etc.

They certainly did a number on us.

It will unwind and all will be reveiled "slowly but surely", one way or the other.

Rest assured.

Splitpin

sugar3157 · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SPLITPIN said:
Javier

The term I believe is called "financial engineering".

In other words you have to be a forensic expert to even think about how it was designed to deceive, hide away, etc. etc.

They certainly did a number on us.

It will unwind and all will be reveiled "slowly but surely", one way or the other.

Rest assured.

Splitpin

Hi all..does this mean that we will eventually get all our money back...and will the directors etc be made to pay out of their personal accounts and hopefully go to jail?.....

Jadel · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Unfortunately Sugar

We will not get all our money back

A good portion of it is feeding the ponies at Elysium Fields

You do need to rob a bank these days .

Just become a Fund manager and rip of naive pensioners and retirees

Directors rarely to to jail in these circumstances and if they do its not for very long

RickH · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

sugar3157 said:
Hi all..does this mean that we will eventually get all our money back...and will the directors etc be made to pay out of their personal accounts and hopefully go to jail?.....

That should be the goal.

The first hurdle is the 75% vote for JH.

Regards,
RickH:couch:

JohnH · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel said:
Unfortunately Sugar

We will not get all our money back

A good portion of it is feeding the ponies at Elysium Fields

You do need to rob a bank these days .

Just become a Fund manager and rip of naive pensioners and retirees

Directors rarely to to jail in these circumstances and if they do its not for very long

Hardly...ELYSIUM (ELYSIAN FIELDS)A beautiful meadow where the blameless dead spend a bliss-filled eternity

selciper · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This is a key sentence from yesterday's Sydney. Morning Herald story about a very recent alleged internet scam: "ASIC does not say whether it is investigating a company unless it has taken action." Patience will be our virtue!

Rance · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JohnH said:
Hardly...ELYSIUM (ELYSIAN FIELDS)A beautiful meadow where the blameless dead spend a bliss-filled eternity

Not so, JohnH!

In our case, Elysian Fields is the Polo Club and grounds, 15 minutes from the Gold Coast bought/built/improved and privately owned by our beloved Michael King, the founder of MFS who sucked millions out of MFS to make the grass at Elysian Fields even greener than they were and left us for Dubai (where he had a swish wedding) and England (to play polo with Charlie and Co.) and left us with the mess we are now in. You will recall Peacock sacked him in January when MFS shares went into free fall and distributions to unit holders were suspended because of King's debt's and dealings with MFS money. I don't think we know where he is now... but it ain't Australia!!!

Rance

JohnH · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yes I Know Rance, but you must appreciate the irony of the definition!!

Rance · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JohnH said:
Yes I Know Rance, but you must appreciate the irony of the definition!!

Yes i did John and i thank you... just thought i'd remind others where most of the blame lies, because Paul Manka and Chris Scott (who are working to stop Octaviar (MFS) going down the gurgle) seem to be copping a lot of undeserved flack for the debacle... they weren't on the MFS board in January! Scott accepted MFS shares for the sale of his Leisure company to MFS... that made him the major shareholder but i feel he'd wished he taken cash in view of what subsequently happened...

Ah, if only we could turn back the hands of time...

Rance

breaker1 · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jadel said:
Unfortunately Sugar

We will not get all our money back

A good portion of it is feeding the ponies at Elysium Fields

You do need to rob a bank these days .

Just become a Fund manager and rip of naive pensioners and retirees

Directors rarely to to jail in these circumstances and if they do its not for very long

Your on to something now Jadel - our monies are tied up in Michael Kings old polo ponies and PWC can't work out whether they should go to stud for 45c or the glue factory for 14c!

Duped · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance said:
Yes i did John and i thank you... just thought i'd remind others where most of the blame lies, because Paul Manka and Chris Scott (who are working to stop Octaviar (MFS) going down the gurgle) seem to be copping a lot of undeserved flack for the debacle... they weren't on the MFS board in January! Scott accepted MFS shares for the sale of his Leisure company to MFS... that made him the major shareholder but i feel he'd wished he taken cash in view of what subsequently happened...

Ah, if only we could turn back the hands of time...

Rance

Until someone provides evidence to the contrary, I will continue to believe that OCV/MFS Ltd paid 'dividends' to shareholders out of an ever increasing size of debt/obligations. Blame must also go to all shareholders who saw $$$ and kept holding or accumulating shares and pushing the share price up without a realistic look at the financials. And that includes CS.

IMO OCVs collapse has got nothing to do with the current 'credit crunch'. It was always going to happen just like it has happened a dozen times to companies over the last decades. (See wikipedia entries for e.g. Quintex, Bond Corp, Pyramid Building Society etc MFS is just another such story.) This credit crunch was just the trigger.

Prove me wrong. My financial advisor can't. Where are the obligation free 'earnings' that backed the OCV Ltd 'dividends'? When someone does, I will stand corrected. "Independent valuations" of the assets are all good and fine but what about the PE ratio, the 'show me the money' ratio? Where is the obligation free return on capital for each of the 'assets'?

Of course, none of this helps PIF now.

Cheers.

BABIHUTAN · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

We,the home minister & I are long time PIF Investors and for many years hv rolled over n paid tax on those distributions that we may never see, not to mention significant Capital losses tt appear inevitable.
I hv been following this forum off n on fm day 1 but don't recall seeing what if anything the regulatory Authorities hv done or not done to protect Investor interests against what would appear to be very very questionable practices, not acceptable in many other jurisdictions. Have Passports of responsible Company Officers been surrendered and personal assets frozen pending their responding satisfactorily to questions put to them by such Authorities?

DoraNBoots · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Challenger was taking OCV to the NSW Supreme Court to liquidate on July 21. Does anyone know what happened to that? I read last Friday they were in the QLD court for the PTQ case and that they decided to back off when the trustee was replaced but what happend on the 21st?

On another topic I’ve attached an old article. Does anyone know anything about the companies mentioned in this article?
Extract from the attached article...
"TEETERING Gold Coast financier Octaviar has moved to shut down a clutch of subsidiaries and transferred others to a new mystery owner."

flatback · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
Challenger was taking OCV to the NSW Supreme Court to liquidate on July 21. Does anyone know what happened to that? I read last Friday they were in the QLD court for the PTQ case and that they decided to back off when the trustee was replaced but what happend on the 21st?

On another topic I’ve attached an old article. Does anyone know anything about the companies mentioned in this article?
Extract from the attached article...
"TEETERING Gold Coast financier Octaviar has moved to shut down a clutch of subsidiaries and transferred others to a new mystery owner."

Doranboots where do you keep getting these wonderfully informative snippets of information, i applaud you for the research and results, which you make available to all on this forum, its this kind of information which does indeed show the depth of ineguity which is surrounding the problem we face cheers Flatback

DoraNBoots · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This extract is from the OCV announcement on the ASX web site on the 24th June 2008. (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20080624/pdf/319spkwhmfbqy3.pdf) I've underlined the bit of interest. Was this claim known in Dec 07? Anyone got the financial statements mentioned?

k.smith · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
Challenger was taking OCV to the NSW Supreme Court to liquidate on July 21. Does anyone know what happened to that? I read last Friday they were in the QLD court for the PTQ case and that they decided to back off when the trustee was replaced but what happend on the 21st?

On another topic I’ve attached an old article. Does anyone know anything about the companies mentioned in this article?
Extract from the attached article...
"TEETERING Gold Coast financier Octaviar has moved to shut down a clutch of subsidiaries and transferred others to a new mystery owner."

DoraNBoots....we have just looked up the companies mentioned in this article on the Asic Free Company Name Search, and there are so many companies and so much paperwork presented it is no wonder that PWC is STILL working on the books......a lot of these companies were set up less than a year ago, would anyone have any ideas why?

flatback · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

k.smith said:
DoraNBoots....we have just looked up the companies mentioned in this article on the Asic Free Company Name Search, and there are so many companies and so much paperwork presented it is no wonder that PWC is STILL working on the books......a lot of these companies were set up less than a year ago, would anyone have any ideas why?

K smith it will never ever cease to amaze me that our great financial

institution ASX , and our governments whatever Labour or liberal etc,etc,etc allow a company with supposedly good credentials MFS,OCT to be allowed to creat bogus $ 1 companies to suck the life out of the parent company, because to the majority of us people on the street this is why these companies are created ($1 companies)why cant the powers that be, stop this criminal activity,surely there is no other reason these companies are created?????????? and i dont just bundle our predicament into this ,this is a nation wide practise, i will tell you something now, I WILL NEVER EVER AGAIN INVEST IN A FUND that comes out of the gold coast,probably anywhere for that matter, my next avenue will be shares, something i can only blame myself for if i make a bad judgement. cheers Flatback

BootsnAll · 30 July 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dexter said:
For the non believers who think liquidation is the best way out I may be able to assist.

We are told liquidation will return approximately 14c/unit by March next year. For the next 14 days I am offering 20c/unit payable on completion of transfer forms. I have arranged for the transfer of units to be executed by Perpetual free of charge.They are posting tranfer forms to me today.

I am an existing unit holder in PIF.

Please contact Ian on 02 6629 6092 or 0418 724 661.

Dexter
I think your idea of selling shares to existing PIF holders is good. I suggested this to one of WC staff at the GC forum.

Sometime ago I was interested in buying units in an unlisted trust. The company gave me the name and details of someone wanting to sell. For anyone needing immediate access to their money this would be a simple way of doing it. It would be up to the parties to negotiate a price. Perhaps WC or Perpetual could keep a list those wanting to sell. As for winding up the fund I doubt if this would be finalized by March. From past experience this process seems to take years.
BTW has anyone looked at LLA trades on ASX? Pretty depressing!

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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