Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Some very interesting information now coming on the WC site

including the Compliance Plan, Fund Overview (with investor summary information) and the Investment Allocation.

...

The compliance plan looks fine, but who were all the players etc. and why was ASIC not notified as per the plan. ...

Thanks SPLITPIN. Have had a look but can't see where your getting the Compliance Plan info from.

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I do not agree how WC got the gig, of course she has emerged from her past dealings with Chris Scott..I mean who the hell was WC before this?? Just another operator in QLD, sure she is a friendly creditor to OCV..this blind Freddy can see, it is past history..nothing we can do about it for now.

We just have to accept this as the best of a bad deal. We have to have more time..WC is the only way, trust me there is noone else that will emerge between now and the vote, after that if WC aren't true to their word is a different story..for ANOTHER day.

When I say 'put our energy', I mean just save it it for now..suck it up, a vote for WC is really a vote for PIF to not be liquidated, we will need our energy for AFTER that, cos folks that's when this AG will really shine. To ensure that WC are kept to their promise and strategy. To ensure that they work for US, and if they don't, that's when the guns will come out..we REALLY do have them, we just have to be a little patient and accept the reality of NOW.

There is a means to an end, but we have to do it in a sequence of events, it starts with the vote not to liquidate, and that for now means WC. Stick solid and have trust in some of the people behind the scenes that will never be seen in the media or be heard quoting dead presidents.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Perpetual should offer a free mail-out by the AG to all investors before the vote. That's the least they can do to repair their image.

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

G.D. you are forgetting that it is 6 cents - not 6%.

6 cents return on say 45 cents - is over 13% return. This would certainly be attractive to some investors on the ASX

Yes, any price up to 60 cents yielding 6 cents/per unit (10%) will be attractive and vultures like me are circling...

Rance

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

What an intriguing post Javier! (I hope that doesn’t sound sarcastic cause I’m genuine)

I’ve been wondering why we are even being asked to vote. Here are the options I was thinking:
* Vote to remove RE? No, that would require a 50% vote.
* Vote WC to be RE? No, they are already the RE.
* Vote to wind up the fund? No that would require 75% of vote wanting to wind it up (as opposed to %25)
* Vote to change the constitution? Yes, and I assume the RE considers the change will adversely effect the PIF members rights. The Corp Act (and constitution) says that the constitution can be changed by the responsible entity if the responsible entity reasonably considers the change will not adversely affect members' rights. (Otherwise a special resolution is needed i.e. 75% vote) I realise if the constitution isn’t changed to address the redepmtion issue the fund will need to be wound up early next year. ASIC said they didn't think listing on the NSX needed a vote of members and JH said the same thing to Breaker, saying it's a matter for the board to decide. So why are we being asked to vote? Is it to protect WC in case they are adversely affecting our rights? Or is it just a courtesy?

Of course there could be other options and I would be interested to know them; this is just my inexperienced view on things. Obviously I have trouble waiting for WCs info pack.

 

[zixo]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I do not agree how WC got the gig, of course she has emerged from her past dealings with Chris Scott..I mean who the hell was WC before this?? Just another operator in QLD, sure she is a friendly creditor to OCV..this blind Freddy can see, it is past history..nothing we can do about it for now.

We just have to accept this as the best of a bad deal. We have to have more time..WC is the only way, trust me there is noone else that will emerge between now and the vote, after that if WC aren't true to their word is a different story..for ANOTHER day.

When I say 'put our energy', I mean just save it it for now..suck it up, a vote for WC is really a vote for PIF to not be liquidated, we will need our energy for AFTER that, cos folks that's when this AG will really shine. To ensure that WC are kept to their promise and strategy. To ensure that they work for US, and if they don't, that's when the guns will come out..we REALLY do have them, we just have to be a little patient and accept the reality of NOW.

There is a means to an end, but we have to do it in a sequence of events, it starts with the vote not to liquidate, and that for now means WC. Stick solid and have trust in some of the people behind the scenes that will never be seen in the media or be heard quoting dead presidents.

Javier,

I agree with what you've said.
We are asked to trust people who have not shown their true worth.
Yet, Every asset that the PIF has owned has been selling at liquidated prices. The biggest insult is that JH has accepted a deal which is well below any liquidation price from the company that led us to the situation we are in now. It's the same Company she vowed to chase to the ends of the earth.

We may not want to get liquidated but we sure as hell are getting liquidated values to match a liquidaters mindset. what is going on?

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks SPLITPIN. Have had a look but can't see where your getting the Compliance Plan info from.

Duped

Please look under Coporate Goverance.

Certainly a lively forum today.

Regards

Splitpin

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I’ve been wondering why we are even being asked to vote.

My understanding is: to amend the constitution to e.g. amend the redemption clauses etc. Such clauses affect members rights. If these aren't amended the fund must be wound up after 360 days of the freeze. My bet is we'll be voting on amendments to the constitution.

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Spot on Duped..it's all about the 360 days in the constitution. This vote is an amendment of that AND the fact that in my opinion OCV are still the RE per the constitution and WC is the manager for the RE being OCV via WC buying all the units for the management rights for the former MFSIM entities of which our PIF is one of those entities.

 

[goldfinger38]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Since the 31st July is the big date, which from then, our distributions should start being paid again. This I was told a few months back. As far I know I am under the current PDS, and I look forward to my distribution next month.

If this does not happen, then I will not be voting for Welliington, and will be
telling many other investors I know, to do the same.
Lets manage this fund ourselves, which is not as hard as people make out.

And looks like Wellington is going the same road as MFS, in telling us nothing.

Lets do something constructive and picket the Wellington offices, and maybe
get some TV media exposure, which might help our cause. I think we should do something now, instead of all this talk. I know there would many people interested doing a picket, if we got organised.
We still live in free country, where anyone can form a group and demonstrate.

Sorry Akernst to be the bringer of bad news, but it has no meaning to be under current or previous PDS. ALL current unitholders are impacted equally based on the number of units they hold. Distributions wont commence until cash has built up in bank account once RBOS has been paid out in full as they need to hold a minmum of 5% in cash in bank and this hasnt happended lately as they have been paying anything going into the bank account to the RBOS loan.

Based on some of the information we have been receiving and from what was said at the forums, she hopes to recommence distributions in October with a further payment by December and Quarterly payments thereafter and given the news about the potential settlement of $50 million from OCV so we dont ask for more money JH will have the funds to payout any remaining debt to RBOS which I think was around $15 million and the remainder in a special distribution to ALL unitholders. And this only applies if she is allowed to continue with fund otherwise liquidation option proceeds.... with a payment by March 2009.utthedoor:

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

WELLINGTON ADVICE: Events coming up.
DVD of the recent Investor Forums to be dispatched by post this week to all investors together with copy of announcement concerning Centrelink valuation and Q and A.
Information packages along with proxy forms for dispatch to all investors (and wraps) mid-August. Unit holder meeting due 21 days later (early September).

If resolutions passed:

First 1.5c distribution in October 2008
Second 1.5c distribution due in December 2008.
Special distribution before Christmas possible if legal action against Octaviar settled promptly.
Thanks Rick.
Kind regards
Stephen Hart
National Manager - Adviser Services | Funds Management
Premium Income Fund

Yes. I sent an email to JH suggesting the drip feed loan option. I have been advised by Stephen Hart that it will be considered. I then requested the above an email update received at 5.15 pm today Monday 28/07/2008.

Let JH and WC get on with the job and then we can monitor her all the way.
75% vote for JH must succeed. RickH:couch:

 

[Bumblebee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Whatever happened to the Shades of Grey

It appears that we are falling for the old ‘it’s all black or its all white’ scenario. And it’s not surprising because this is exactly how Wellington Capital is presenting.

JH is saying come with me and let me manage the PIF back to its former glory days, pay you dividends and get your unit value back (all white). The only other option is (if you don’t vote for me) Liquidation @ 15 cents (All black).

Like some other forum members I don’t like being dictated to or bullied either. And I find it hard to embrace that JH has the investors interests at heart when she fails to mention all the ‘in-between’ (grey) possibilities.

For example, an orderly wind up of the PIF. This would see the fund go under an administrator who, over time, perhaps 2 to 3 years would realise the investments and in a timely way sell assets returning the capital back to investors. This is not a fire sale process.

It would mean that as borrowers paid capital back into the PIF the money would be returned to us and not reinvested, (nothing lost here). It would mean that tangible assets would be sold in a timely way when the market meets fair price and this could be some years down the track. These monies also would be returned to us investors and not relent.

I have recently seen this happen with another of my investment funds Lehman Brothers High Income Fund just a couple of months ago. The RE closed their Australian office and the decision was made to pay an administrator to wind the fund up in an orderly way. Already 5 cents has been returned as capital (no tax) and the unit price has decreased by the same amount 5 cents. It is anticipated that full value of the units will eventually be returned (2 to 3 years) until the unit value reaches zero and the fund ceases to be.

I am still very much concerned that JH is too close to Scott and OCV. She has not demonstrated that she is an aggressive creditor of OCV and this is what the PIF needs to get the very best deal for us, now re Stella etc. and down the track re further court cases etc...

So, yes, I am leaning towards a ‘grey’ option. Best value return for what is left of our fund. Not a fire sale liquidation. but An orderly wind up and we can get on and utilise our money in our way not being tied to WC and have them reinvesting our money in ways they haven’t even alluded to as yet.

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Some very interesting information now coming on the WC site

http://www.newpif.com.au/investorforumjuly.html

including the Compliance Plan, Fund Overview (with investor summary information) and the Investment Allocation. ...

Good find.

Last para of page 8 "All breaches required to be reported to ASIC in accordance with section 912D and section 601FC(1XI) of the Corporations Act. ..."
So if the current breaches weren't reported to ASIC (or even reportable) and ASIC don't prosecute the individuals responsible then this whole document is a joke. A waste of Australian resources. 64 pages of fluff.

Page 13 - all signatures are Michael King. What a joke! Hints towards the truth doesn't it Ladies and Gentlemen. PIF was King's piggy bank.

My favourite is the last page (page 60):
Operating Procedure 35.
Function: To ensure that scheme assets are invested in Authorised Investments in accordance with the Disclosure Document and the Constitution.
Risks: Investment portfolio differs from the Disclosure Document providing a different risk profile to that which Members expect. Investments are not made in accordanrce with the Constitution. Investments are not in the best interests of members.

And handing over $180M+ to the parent company in return for unsecured 'investments' was EVER going to satisfy this???? If so then no wonder there's a skills shortage in this country with so much of our human capital tied up with BS documents and processes like this. What a collosal waste of resources!!!

Don't you just love how this operating procedure was put LAST.

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If you can get any invester to buy he units for 45cents i will walk bare footed over brocken glass from Brisbane to Sydney Ask your self would you buy them for 45 cents If the answer is yes tou can have all mine today ////

John i buy & sell shares for a living The bid i would put in to buy these units would be about 15 cents But dont take my word for it just you wait & see when they are listed on the NSX /////////

Hi Great Dame,
Being a financial planner I will give you some free general financial advice because I do not know your true personal financial position. I am personally recommending to my clients that they should vote for JH and take a longer term view and I give you the same advice.
As an investor myself, I am happy to hear that you are a share trader because as an investor I usually base my investments on Technical Analysis/Share Price Charts supported by reasonable fundamentals.
I note that you would walk over broken glass for 45 cents and that you would place a bid for 15 cents to buy these units on the NSX.
AS an investor I will offer you 30 cents for each of your $1.00 units in PIF on the following two conditions:
1) JH achieves her 75% vote to be the RE and list on the NSX.
2) You will receive the full 30 cent payment per $1.00 unit within 30 days of the positive vote or as soon as off market transaction can be completed after the 30 days.
If you are a great trader you will be able to recover your money on the share market within a reasonable time.
We can organise the solicitors to draft the sales contract.
Please consider, this a genuine offer.
Thank you.,
RickH:couch:

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I like Bumblebee's post! I keep hearing the “come with me” quote in my head and wonder why it has to be about JH. If the emphasis was more on the fact that the constitution needs to be changed in order for the fund not to be liquidated by March 08 then perhaps there would be more votes in favour in Sep. Another quote was “vote for WC and our strategy or liquidate”. I’m sure WC are already RE as they just took on OCV IM and renamed it so surely the only change (that adversely effects us) is the change in redemptions and that doesn’t have to be about JH and WC.

Does anyone know how the option of an orderly wind up as Bumblebee mentions could be voted on? Would this automatically be an option if the Sep vote doesn’t get 75%? (Don’t freak out Javier!) I'm thinking a vote would be needed so that the wind up didn't need to happen before March 09.

Rick, you should change your marketing strategy and say something like vote to save the PIF rather than placing emphasis on JH.

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Let JH and WC get on with the job and then we can monitor her all the way.
75% vote for JH must succeed. RickH:couch:

Agree with you RickH... Most of the chat on this forum is just piffle and waffle... with blame for what happened referred to wrong party ie: JH/WC... I'm a 74 year old in need of cash and JH's distribution and going forward plans are ok with me.

Rance :iagree:

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I like Bumblebee's post! I keep hearing the “come with me” quote in my head and wonder why it has to be about JH.........
Rick, you should change your marketing strategy and say something like vote to save the PIF rather than placing emphasis on JH.

Hi DoraNBoots,
I have been reading these listings and I believe that most of what is being discussed is based on emotion and not financial logic.
JH appears to the best qualified quality option that we have to act as the RE.
We should let her get on with the job. JH has stated her goals. Let her go for it. We can get our revenge later.
Now we need to only consider the 75% vote.
RickH:couch:

 

[flatback]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Nice Work Javier.
Have just voted.

Quick Q: does the service allow us to weight our votes according to our holdings?

But I disagree with comments that JH is a shoe in. Currently the yes votes come in at 82%. This is VERY close. Don't forget that when one person changes their vote from YES to NO this not only reduces the YES vote, it adds to the NO vote.

Duped im starting to wonder if somebody said something was black it appears you would say its white just to be different, tell me this, is 82% more than 75% and on top of that why would somebody who has thought very long and hard about their vote (change it) only somebody like you would change your vote on a whim dont bundle everybody along with yourself,i dont consider 82%/75% to be close, i consider it to be a shoe in .flatback

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

That may be an option, but then there will be no distributions, and people like me and Rance (and I am sure many, many more) need money that has not come to us since the end of January. At least we know with WC the cash will start coming to us by end of October and then again a nice payment just before Chrissy..and that's all good for now. We then see how WC go. Not a bad deal..could be a LOT worse.

We can't keep complaining about the cards we have been dealt (that will be for another day), we have to play the hand the best we can to have a chance at the pot.

 

[flatback]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I have tried many scenarios, trust me you can only vote ONCE per one computer, so happy voting!

Here's the link:

http://pub33.bravenet.com/minipoll/viewservice.php

User name: PIFpoll
Password: spain123

Then under Web Tools go to Web Poll then hit the "view service" button.

thanks javier! great concept we now have a tool to gauge our honest voting, and cant be got at by those who dont believe we have a great product to sell through WC ,using the great knowledge that JH obviously has.Flatback